Parrikar Opens Door To Mini-MRCA

[graphican]

what exactly is wrongcin with the Tejas?? is it the hardware or the ineptitude of HAL to manage the project?

I think it is mix of strategy, performance and production which has brought India at this point.

Tejas has ended up getting too heavy for its size, thus they needed more powerful engine than originally planned to keep thrust to weight ratio up but now engine consumes more fuel than planned and it has affected its loitering duration and range. Increased weight and delta design will also have an impact on air-drag and the jet would experience setbacks in close air combats when put against enemies.

India has been overly ambitious about this project but instead of being performance focus, India remained self-reliance focused and waited the defense industry to develop alongside the Tejas which explains excessively long development timeframe. Now India has invested too much money, too much time and too many resources building a product which is falling short of defense requirements and if they drop the project, this will also affect aviation industry and India may end up losing both product and trust from the industry and if they keep Tejas alive, they will "save" the project and Industry but the product is less than desired affecting defense requirements. They got to loose something somewhere.

 

[magudi]

Nice ! But how do you know we will have more rafale ? Problem starts from there and Ends with MK2

What mk2? Where is mk2?Its no where in sight to be honest , has it been lifted from drawing boards yet ?

 

[Ind4Ever]

As i said all r rumors and dont have any pic.But 5th gen plane of IDF guy is true. He was talking abt for long time

Any insight into it ? It might be true. Cause now MK2 development plan will take place till 2021/22 against previous deadline of 2018-2020

As i said all r rumors and dont have any pic.But 5th gen plane of IDF guy is true. He was talking abt for long time

I think it is mix of strategy, performance and production which has brought India at this point.

Tejas has ended up getting too heavy for its size, thus they needed more powerful engine than originally planned to keep thrust to weight ratio up but now engine consumes more fuel than planned and it has affected its loitering duration and range. Increased weight and delta design will also have an impact on air-drag and the jet would experience setbacks in close air combats when put against enemies.

India has been overly ambitious about this project but instead of being performance focus, India remained self-reliance focused and waited the defense industry to develop alongside the Tejas which explains excessively long development timeframe. Now India has invested too much money, too much time and too many resources building a product which is falling short of defense requirements and if they drop the project, this will also affect aviation industry and India may end up losing both product and trurst from the industry and if they keep Tejas alive, it would be less than desired product affecting defense requirements.

Partially correct and partially wrong . If my guess is right MK1 might have GE 414 and Aesa for later productions. As our Defence Minister said . Weight is not the issue here but the drag is .

 

[Azz Kikr]

F-16 Super Viper could replace both the Mig-21s,SPECAT,Mig-27s,Mig-29s, and Mirages.

based on the F-16XL

it wouldn't be cheap though, but to have a aircraft that can replace the others could save money in the long term and simplify everything.

F 16s? seriously? i think US should make a better offer to IAF. this plane failed miserably during MMRCA trials. sorry mate, it wont do.

 

[SrNair]

@Indians
Pass a law, which legalizes 10% commission in any defense contract. All your procurement issues will be resolved.
Don't get me wrong, its the only issue behind daily contradictory statements and delays.

This is the India not Pakistan and their Zardari and Sharif Family.

They are ready to share their aerospace design and details with Partners

51% contribution in our Mk2 project

I know we are all scared due to Fate of Mmrca but we should grab this offer if it's genuine and if negotiations can be done on short time period.

Let's say we will face criticism from Presstitudes bet in the end we get good results from our aerospace units

I dont think so.At the end 20 years of effort of LCA team will be at the hand oc some European nation.
Whatever it is Tejas will remain as our own.And IAF cant allow another platform for make it plane zoo.
And Gripen is fearing the challenge of LCA in future.

Another threatning of Defence

 

[migflug]

No one is willing to go on record about the far more daunting airframe redesigns. And that is because the IAF & IN have both mandated that IRST should be incorporated & secondly, agility should be enhanced by reducing aerodynamic drag.

And this can be done in only two ways: incorporation of active canards (& not LEVCONs) & if that’s not possible, then incorporation of thrust-vector control nozzles. And the latter isn’t possible since GE Aero Engines hasn’t developed such TVC nozzles for the F414 family of turbofans. So, the only option now left on the table for ADA is to incorporate active canards & this in turn will require the MRCA’s fuselage to be stretched & when this happens, then wing cord/ wing area too will have to be increased. This, ultimately, will result in a totally new airframe design that will require comprehensive flight-testing for airworthiness certification purposes—a process that will take almost 4 years to complete.

No such canards were added in tejas mk2 design which is nearing completion shows the level of the worth of our DDM folks!!!!
So, if the first of 3 Mk2 prototypes is rolled out between 2018 & 2020, then SP-series Mk2 will start rolling off from HAL no earlier than 2025, & FOC-status will be achieved only three years later in 2028. And that was precisely the reason why this time at the expo no one from ADA or the IAF or IN was even willing to talk about the Mk2 variants. This being the state of affairs, even the mere mention of the AMCA would appear to me to be grossly blasphemous, although the DRDO honchos openly stated during the expo that they once again wanted to opt for imported turbofans for the AMCA!!!


This is the reason why mk2 is late or we dont have any clue abt it. Also mk2 wont have levcons but canards. What is this 2028

 

[cerberus]

I dont think so.At the end 20 years of effort of LCA team will be at the hand oc some European nation.
Whatever it is Tejas will remain as our own.And IAF cant allow another platform for make it plane zoo.
And Gripen is fearing the challenge of LCA in future.

Let Be realistic LCA was not completed that Goal which it Designed For, it missed the time Frame.As For IAF they are Actually the Ones who are Flying that 70 era junks for Decades risking their Lives for Every Sortie they Fly.Perhaps you should Try to fill their Shoes for Sometimes.these IAF pilots will Face the Heat whenever Desperate time Arises Not You And Me or that Babus Sitting in AC rooms in MOD Luteyans Delhi.

 

[SelfServeFive]

MMMRCA?

 

[uparyupari]

No one is willing to go on record about the far more daunting airframe redesigns. And that is because the IAF & IN have both mandated that IRST should be incorporated & secondly, agility should be enhanced by reducing aerodynamic drag.

And this can be done in only two ways: incorporation of active canards (& not LEVCONs) & if that’s not possible, then incorporation of thrust-vector control nozzles. And the latter isn’t possible since GE Aero Engines hasn’t developed such TVC nozzles for the F414 family of turbofans. So, the only option now left on the table for ADA is to incorporate active canards & this in turn will require the MRCA’s fuselage to be stretched & when this happens, then wing cord/ wing area too will have to be increased. This, ultimately, will result in a totally new airframe design that will require comprehensive flight-testing for airworthiness certification purposes—a process that will take almost 4 years to complete.

No such canards were added in tejas mk2 design which is nearing completion shows the level of the worth of our DDM folks!!!!
So, if the first of 3 Mk2 prototypes is rolled out between 2018 & 2020, then SP-series Mk2 will start rolling off from HAL no earlier than 2025, & FOC-status will be achieved only three years later in 2028. And that was precisely the reason why this time at the expo no one from ADA or the IAF or IN was even willing to talk about the Mk2 variants. This being the state of affairs, even the mere mention of the AMCA would appear to me to be grossly blasphemous, although the DRDO honchos openly stated during the expo that they once again wanted to opt for imported turbofans for the AMCA!!!

This is the reason why mk2 is late or we dont have any clue abt it. Also mk2 wont have levcons but canards. What is this 2028

Did you read the news about GTRE and Klimov agreeing to develop a multi axel thrust vectoring nozzle ?

Why do you think they did that ? You think it might be something to do with Thrust Vectoring ?

 

[SrNair]

Another threatning from DM to push the LCA team for early result.

 

[migflug]

Did you read the news about GTRE and Klimov agreeing to develop a multi axel thrust vectoring nozzle ?

Why do you think they did that ? You think it might be something to do with Thrust Vectoring ?

its for amca not mk. iff we go for thrust vectoring (on american engine by russia) we wont need canards

 

[uparyupari]

its for amca not mk. iff we go for thrust vectoring (on american engine by russia) we wont need canards

It is reasonable to assume AMCA will have 2 GE 414 engines. That being the case, why would it be restricted to AMCA ?

 

[GURU DUTT]

The Modi gov do not trust LCA as its made in India. Modi is all talk about made in India but he would throw India's only jet that took 33 years to develop under the bus.

no your wrong LCA will be the so called "MINI MMRCA"

IAFknows that they wont get anything beyond 36+18 FFB Rafales and the rest 6-8 "MINI MMRCA" will be LCA MK1-1.5-2

the LCA MK1as it is will be given a indian made AESA + some other upgrades till MK2 (which will be induced as an when it comes and IOC-FOC will be taken after )

PMO & DM are in no mood to relent and are using carrot and stick policy with ever "forign maal greedy" IAF

 

[SrNair]

Then if that was case ,the US govt should go for some foreign nations for fifth gen fighter because under performance of the F35 at its initial production stage ?
If IAF continues the lust for foreign maal it will be the GoI and Indian industry will take toll and heat ,something that will press the economy .Did you see what happened in the Mistral case in Russia?
Chinese also knows their aerospace area is still not that equal to US .But they arestill funding and now getting the results .
That is realistic in here.LCA can do its job like Airpolicing and others light responsibilities.LCA wont be the front line fighter in a conflict scenario.Mig UPG ,Su,Rafale and FGFA in future will take that chance.
This is a R&D and it is a learning curve .The future Indian aerospace industry in India will depend on the basic success of LCA .
And for basic light weight protection LCA would b e enough and MK 2 willbe potent.
.

Let Be realistic LCA was not completed that Goal which it Designed For, it missed the time Frame.As For IAF they are Actually the Ones who are Flying that 70 era junks for Decades risking their Lives for Every Sortie they Fly.Perhaps you should Try to fill their Shoes for Sometimes.these IAF pilots will Face the Heat whenever Desperate time Arises Not You And Me or that Babus Sitting in AC rooms in MOD Luteyans Delhi.

 

[kaku1]

Did you read the news about GTRE and Klimov agreeing to develop a multi axel thrust vectoring nozzle ?

Why do you think they did that ? You think it might be something to do with Thrust Vectoring ?

Yes, if source of engine is Indian or Russian.

Not on American like F404. American never accept this.