Para-special forces to get two new battalions

[Abingdonboy]

bro who told you that the navy seal size is 10,000+!!??? actually it 2500 and the budget for us special operations command is
$4 billion....

You're right, sorry I was referring to the US Naval Special Warfare Command which has around 10,000 personal.

And yes the US SOCOM has a vast budget but over the years India's defence budget is going to increase anyway. Also don't forget that a significant proportion of this budget is going to go on Op Ex that is operational expenditure (wages,fuel, travel expenses etc) which is going to be vast as compared to the Indian SOF Op Ex as Indian SOFs don't go around the world in the same way as US SOFs and Indian SOF operators will be on barely 1/5th of the salary as their US/Western counterparts.

The IA, IN and IAF is around 1.5 Million personal strong (Active) and 11-12,000 (what it will be with these envisaged changes) SOF operators is very much fair especially considering the new attention being given to China (these 2 SF btns will be deployed against China) and the ever present unconventional threat to India.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

If you are talking about operators then every tom dick and harry has a SF in india. To name a few, there is RPF, BSF, SSB, ITBP, CRPF Cobras, RAF, CISF, NSG, Greyhounds, Garuds, Marcos, there might be many more, these are just from the top of my head.
I think the Marcos and NSG are the most well equiped of them all.
View attachment 43756 View attachment 43757

PARA+NSG+MARCOS+GARUDS+SFF=
~15000 OPERATORS

So how much do you wanna expand...dont you think if you properly equip 15000 operators then they are already enough to handle any problem in India.

Why not give them better weapons and equipments and make them more formidable?

Our operators equal US operators but on a budget only 1/10th of theirs and operations based in India.

 

[Abingdonboy]

PARA+NSG+MARCOS+GARUDS+SFF=

Gotta take out NSG and SFF, they don't count in the Indian SOF forces (they aren't "true" SOFs) and anyway are under different command structures (MHA and RAW respectively) and thus funded separately.

Anyway the NSG is being downsized (SRG stripped back to bare minimum ) as it is which is a step in the right direction...

I'm skeptical of the SFF and its capabilities as it is, I don't know what kind of personal equipment they have or need but I wouldn't be focusing on them. Focus on the three true SOFs in India first, set up the SOC and go from there....

 

[hkdas]

You're right, sorry I was referring to the US Naval Special Warfare Command which has around 10,000 personal.

And yes the US SOCOM has a vast budget but over the years India's defence budget is going to increase anyway. Also don't forget that a significant proportion of this budget is going to go on Op Ex that is operational expenditure (wages,fuel, travel expenses etc) which is going to be vast as compared to the Indian SOF Op Ex as Indian SOFs don't go around the world in the same way as US SOFs and Indian SOF operators will be on barely 1/5th of the salary as their US/Western counterparts.

The IA, IN and IAF is around 1.5 Million personal strong (Active) and 11-12,000 (what it will be with these envisaged changes) SOF operators is very much fair especially considering the new attention being given to China (these 2 SF btns will be deployed against China) and the ever present unconventional threat to India.

bro, training and maintaining a special forces battalion is more than 5-10 times costly than training a division for infantry.. you are well aware that our special forces don't even have a good NVG... our special forces are nowhere near western sf standard. we should equip our current special forces and only after that think about increasing the strength.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Gotta take out NSG and SFF, they don't count in the Indian SOF forces (they aren't "true" SOFs) and anyway are under different command structures (MHA and RAW respectively) and thus funded separately.

Anyway the NSG is being downsized (SRG stripped back to bare minimum ) as it is which is a step in the right direction...

I'm skeptical of the SFF and its capabilities as it is, I don't know what kind of personal equipment they have or need but I wouldn't be focusing on them. Focus on the three true SOFs in India first, set up the SOC and go from there....

Setting up a SOCOM will include NSG as they are the top force for hostage situations and anti terrorist operation in urban area.

Still we have 10,000 operators..how many would you want in your dream SOCOM? And I need not tell a well informed poster like you about how well trained and equipped SF matters...we need a small well equipped SF and not a big pool of super infantry.

 

[Abingdonboy]

we should equip our current special forces and only after that think about increasing the strength.

Both can be done simultaneously if the right emphasis is given. Until recently the Indian SOFs had little attention given to them and received a pathetically small budget- things are changing slowly but surely. And I keep saying it but the final piece of the jigsaw is the SOC, once that is online things will change faster than we can imagine.

Setting up a SOCOM will include NSG as they are the top force for hostage situations and anti terrorist operation in urban area.

I've heard different things on this- some say the SOC will include the NSG, some say it won't. I personally don't see a need for the NSG (a police unit under civilian control) to be under a military Spec Ops command whose primary focus will be offensive action. The US SOCOM doesn't have the FBI's HRT for instance.

Still we have 10,000 operators..how many would you want in your dream SOCOM?

For a military the size of the Indian Mil, a nation as large as India facing the number of threats India does around 11-12,000 for me- 2-3,000 MARCOs, 3,000 Garuds, 7-8,000 PARA (SF).

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Both can be done simultaneously if the right emphasis is given. Until recently the Indian SOFs had little attention given to them and received a pathetically small budget- things are changing slowly but surely. And I keep saying it but the final piece of the jigsaw is the SOC, once that is online things will change faster than we can imagine.


I've heard different things on this- some say the SOC will include the NSG, some say it won't. I personally don't see a need for the NSG (a police unit under civilian control) to be under a military Spec Ops command whose primary focus will be offensive action. The US SOCOM doesn't have the FBI's HRT for instance.



For a military the size of the Indian Mil, a nation as large as India facing the number of threats India does around 11-12,000 for me- 2-3,000 MARCOs, 3,000 Garuds, 7-8,000 PARA (SF).

Take 10,000 for your sake...how many more do you wanna add...what budget do you want them to have?

Without NSG the SOCOM can only think of non hostage situations and wish to not engage in urab terrain like malls, metro stations and big hotels.Moreover if a plane is hijacked the SOCOM wont be active as NSG will be taking care of the situation then...which I highly doubt.

 

[Zarvan]

If you are talking about operators then every tom dick and harry has a SF in india. To name a few, there is RPF, BSF, SSB, ITBP, CRPF Cobras, RAF, CISF, NSG, Greyhounds, Garuds, Marcos, there might be many more, these are just from the top of my head.
I think the Marcos and NSG are the most well equiped of them all.
View attachment 43756 View attachment 43757

Mr what problem you have our all Para Militaries have special forces like Rangers and FC

 

[Abingdonboy]

Take 10,000 for your sake...how many more do you wanna add...what budget do you want them to have?

Initially $500,000 USD as a start and can be increased from there....

Without NSG the SOCOM can only think of non hostage situations and wish to not engage in urab terrain like malls, metro stations and big hotels.Moreover if a plane is hijacked the SOCOM wont be active as NSG will be taking care of the situation then...which I highly doubt.

I wouldn't want domestic urban CT/Hostage Rescue to be mandate for the SOC (although all 3 SOFs are trained for such), the NSG can continue to operate independently as they have been quite successfully for decades. In most developed/democratic nations the domestic CT force is a civilian/police unit and NOT part of the Military command. I don't see what utility there would be in having the NSG part of the SOC or having the military SOFs cross train with the NSG- no side would benefit from this arrangement IMHO, the NSG neither need the knowledge of how to conduct offensive military-style Spec Ops and the 3 SOFs can be proficient in urban CT missions on their own without NSG help.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Initially $500,000 USD as a start and can be increased from there....



I wouldn't want domestic urban CT/Hostage Rescue to be mandate for the SOC (although all 3 SOFs are trained for such), the NSG can continue to operate independently as they have been quite successfully for decades. In most developed/democratic nations the domestic CT force is a civilian/police unit and NOT part of the Military command. I don't see what utility there would be in having the NSG part of the SOC or having the military SOFs cross train with the NSG- no side would benefit from this arrangement IMHO, the NSG neither need the knowledge of how to conduct offensive military-style Spec Ops and the 3 SOFs can be proficient in urban CT missions on their own without NSG help.

The whole purpose of creating a SOCOM was after 26/11 for a operation where whatsoever unit is available can be quickly deployed just a phone call away from a command which has every resource under it.

If NSG is not involved then who is gonna carry out hostage rescue operation which will be a part of SOCOM as put out by Lt. Gen Katoch.

Garuds and Marcos are highly incapable of carrying out hostage rescue.

Besides this NSG carries out many anti terrorist operation in the valley which goes unreported and let me tell you that NSG has conducted much more important and many more operations than Marcos and Garuds in the valley.

SOCOM is not only for external threats but its main role will be internal threats in Kashmir and N-E.

I do not think that SOCOM will be without NSG and I will be highly shocked if that happens...Lets see how it goes.

 

[Daedalus]

PARA+NSG+MARCOS+GARUDS+SFF=
~15000 OPERATORS

So how much do you wanna expand...dont you think if you properly equip 15000 operators then they are already enough to handle any problem in India.

Why not give them better weapons and equipments and make them more formidable?

Our operators equal US operators but on a budget only 1/10th of theirs and operations based in India.

I get what you want to say and im not against it. Of course their equipment needs to be state of the art instead of adding more numbers to their ranks. But also in our neighborhood they are among the best equipped forces even with their current inventory.

Mr what problem you have our all Para Militaries have special forces like Rangers and FC

No problem sir, just replying to a question asked to me.

 

[kurup]

If you are talking about operators then every tom dick and harry has a SF in india. To name a few, there is RPF, BSF, SSB, ITBP, CRPF Cobras, RAF, CISF, NSG, Greyhounds, Garuds, Marcos, there might be many more, these are just from the top of my head.
I think the Marcos and NSG are the most well equiped of them all.
View attachment 43756 View attachment 43757

The pictures you posted are of SPG and SPB .

 

[Daedalus]

The pictures you posted are of SPG and SPB .

I stand corrected, thank you sir. Actually i knew about the SPG but dont know what I was thinking while typing.

 

[Echo_419]

Because special forces are more lethal if their numbers are not increased but their equipment and skill is enhanced..However in Indias case numbers have been multiplying since last 2 decades but basic equipement like Helmets, a good camo, protective stuff like nomex coveralls, sunglasses that protect against sharpnel and bullet proof shoes or high grade kevlar or blood clot bandages are missing.

it would be better if they made current lot of SF operators world class and then multiply their number.

In the most recent documentry about LOC tge SForces are pretty well equipped

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

In the most recent documentry about LOC tge SForces are pretty well equipped

Did you see helmets? I didnt

Did you see tactical eyewear...I didnt

did you see high grade kevlar...I didnt

did you see bullet proof shoes...I didnt


Why increase the size from 10,000 to 15,000 when your 10,000 are not properly equipped?