Pakistan's Submarine deal with China is terrible

[MystryMan]

Thiland s26t are 3 subs for around a billion dollar assuming same for pak 8 means 2.66 billion add local build and some transfer of tech cost on top of it

. If we take Thailand sub deal value as benchmark then 350-400M USD figure by @Bilal Khan (Quwa) is quite accurate. Overall it could have cost us around 3.5B USD.

 

[Awan68]

Going for the German subs is the best option.

Currently, Germany is pretty unhappy with India due Indian buying French Scorpenes and RAFALEs

Germany is willing to share it best tech with Pakistan and Pakistan should grab it with both hands.

Another option is to go for Russian subs.

One thing we all need to plant in our heads, pakistan is not the silent state ot used to be, we are finally picking a block and going independent, no western solution however attractive it maybe can not be considered now cause they use that clout to damage us ten times over, we will never be able to take decisions with honour if we keep buying from the west, the russkies and the chinese dont attach such agressive diplomacy with thier hardware and even if they do their interests and ours are entwined for atleast 30 yrs into the future...

 

[TaimiKhan]

Yes, you read the title right. The Submarine deal Pakistan cracked with China a few years back was terrible. Now firstly I will admit.....we don't really know what type of submarines we are buying. If 6 of the subs end up being some of the most advanced AIP subs that are better then their european counterparts, and the other 2 are nuclear powered and capable with VLS for SLBM's - Then I'll be like...
View attachment 361350
BUT if the submarine deal turns out to be us just getting 8 S-20 export conventional SSK's that aren't China's best subs - Then the deal is terrible as a matter of fact....shit.

A lot of people on this forum will say "conventional attack submarines that can launch the babur SLCM is great for our sea based detterent and we are all set"
I see this comment ALOT and every time my reaction is...
View attachment 361351
Bruh - We need Submarines with VLS that can fire SLBM's. SLCM's won't do jack.
Anyway's Ill get back to that topic another day.

Back to the Submarine deal - In retrospect 8 S-20 submarines doesn't seem like a bad defence deal, but it kind of is.

8 Chinese submarines - 5 Billion dollars - 12 years
Too long and costly


Pakistan should have:
1. Produced its own submarines with Chinese and Turkish assistance
Or
2. Buy 4 from China and 4 from Germany, Spain or Sweden - Then we would get 8 at the same time

All I can say is - I hope our Admirals know what they're doing.

Khooda Pahar, niklaa chohaaa.

Title of thread so explosive, and your post a misfire.

 

[Hassan Guy]

"pakistan should've built its own subs",

I mean, Iran and North Korea build their own subs - North Korea's can even launch SLBM's

 

[imadul]

I dont think many people read posts before they reply nor do they research before they post .. some dont even think before they are typing.

Too drunk on the idea of just getting their voice out there for someone to either chat with or to get some idiot's like.
It is a problem of humanity, the intelligent ones are too silent and the stupid ones keep chattering away.

You know Mr. Oscar, bloody civilian like us are fools about military h/w, but honest fools. But we should research first and then speak. Fully endorse you.
@hasanguy, some professionals in this forum had told before PN not going to release classified info on google. But inquisitive minds are required. We can talk better a la strategic level, geopolitics and keep learning the difference b/w frigate and a corvette.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Thread opener

 

[Beast]

People have different tastes in life. Your berating is ill-advised.

If I have money, I will pay for high quality products. If China can deliver, why not. However, a large number of brands that are renowned for quality services and products, are not Chinese. China is certainly a manufacturing hub but few Chinese brands are competitive.

We value our friendship with China but this doesn't implies that we will not explore additional markets.

American support has been invaluable for us in the matters of defense and economy. Only a fool would ignore statistics. China is valuable to us in its own way but you are not a substitute for our relations with the WEST on the whole. We don't wish to become another North Korea or Venezuela.

These overseas Pakistani contribute to our economy. We cannot disown them because you disagree with their tastes and perceptions.

These overseas Pakistanis live in a world created by Western who still belittle anything that is not western. Same as their concept. The West has nothing but contempt for Asia. Even the Filipino who used to hate China saw thru the tricks and arrogant view by the west. They have a 180 degrees change in attitude and saw what China can offer which the west never promised.

Pakistanis who still think West has a more important r/s wth them are delusion. Who killed more muslim? Who destroyed the middle east and corrupt the arabs especially the Saudi Seikhs? If any Pakistanis still think West is more valuable and better. They are just kidding themselves. The West are master in creating perception and marketing themselves. They control the media and poison the world with their values and malicious lies.

OP is a very good example of the product of the west.

 

[Shajida Khan]

These overseas Pakistanis live in a world created by Western who still belittle anything that is not western. Same as their concept. The West has nothing but contempt for Asia. Even the Filipino who used to hate China saw thru the tricks and arrogant view by the west. They have a 180 degrees change in attitude and saw what China can offer which the west never promised.

Pakistanis who still think West has a more important r/s wth them are delusion. Who killed more muslim? Who destroyed the middle east and corrupt the arabs especially the Saudi Seikhs? If any Pakistanis still think West is more valuable and better. They are just kidding themselves. The West are master in creating perception and marketing themselves. They control the media and poison the world with their values and malicious lies.

OP is a very good example of the product of the west.

Whether OP lives in east or west that is not going to attach a vertical launch missile tube to submarine, isn't it? I have seen this weird kind of compulsive defensiveness among Chinese, especially Chinese membership of PDF. Reminds me of what the art professor used to call in my college: they are hanging your painting for critique and not you! Do not be so defensive about your craft.

 

[royalharris]

These overseas Pakistanis live in a world created by Western who still belittle anything that is not western. Same as their concept. The West has nothing but contempt for Asia. Even the Filipino who used to hate China saw thru the tricks and arrogant view by the west. They have a 180 degrees change in attitude and saw what China can offer which the west never promised.

Pakistanis who still think West has a more important r/s wth them are delusion. Who killed more muslim? Who destroyed the middle east and corrupt the arabs especially the Saudi Seikhs? If any Pakistanis still think West is more valuable and better. They are just kidding themselves. The West are master in creating perception and marketing themselves. They control the media and poison the world with their values and malicious lies.

OP is a very good example of the product of the west.

To be honest,a lot of Pakistan friends are very funny
Telling them truth is good for them,but truth hurt,some of them will not truly understand,will just hate you
Maybe the better way is just watching and keeping silent

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

We should definitely get submarines with VLS.If It can't fire SLBM then no need to get it , let suppose we need to test naval version of ballistic missile from submarine platform, then how can we achieve this task. We should consider future aspects in this deal.

 

[Hassan Guy]

We should definitely get submarines with VLS.If It can't fire SLBM then no need to get it , let suppose we need to test naval version of ballistic missile from submarine platform, then how can we do this. We should consider future aspects in this deal.

oh wow, one guy who agrees with me

 

[SQ8]

Some times such ridiculous claims are nothing but a form of "social engineering" devised to encourage gullible blabbermouths with some knowledge to spill the beans.

Spill what beans?

Even the beans with blabbermouths are months if not years old.

Far from being social engineering, its just the need to get some chatter going on hollow opinions.

Like asking Meera talking about Shakespeare.

You know Mr. Oscar, bloody civilian like us are fools about military h/w, but honest fools. But we should research first and then speak. Fully endorse you.
@hasanguy, some professionals in this forum had told before PN not going to release classified info on google. But inquisitive minds are required. We can talk better a la strategic level, geopolitics and keep learning the difference b/w frigate and a corvette.

As a fellow bloody civilian, I fully agree that researching information from multiple sources is the way to go. Research, analyze and learn before making an opinion.
Be it subsurface warfare or the length of beards

 

[imadul]

@Oscar
Click to expand...
As a fellow bloody civilian, I fully agree that researching information from multiple sources is the way to go. Research, analyze and learn before making an opinion.
Be it subsurface warfare or the length of beards


But now you have to return all my pushups and salutes

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar
Click to expand...
As a fellow bloody civilian, I fully agree that researching information from multiple sources is the way to go. Research, analyze and learn before making an opinion.
Be it subsurface warfare or the length of beards


But now you have to return all my pushups and salutes

I can do a push up competition as my pecs are lit

But not giving anyone salutes other than the bird

 

[maximuswarrior]

These overseas Pakistanis live in a world created by Western who still belittle anything that is not western. Same as their concept. The West has nothing but contempt for Asia. Even the Filipino who used to hate China saw thru the tricks and arrogant view by the west. They have a 180 degrees change in attitude and saw what China can offer which the west never promised.

Pakistanis who still think West has a more important r/s wth them are delusion. Who killed more muslim? Who destroyed the middle east and corrupt the arabs especially the Saudi Seikhs? If any Pakistanis still think West is more valuable and better. They are just kidding themselves. The West are master in creating perception and marketing themselves. They control the media and poison the world with their values and malicious lies.

OP is a very good example of the product of the west.

Don't worry man. The absolute vast majority of Pakistanis fully realize and comprehend every word you have written. Pak China relations is what irks the enemies. Just read and hear the venom every single day against our cooperation and friendship. This is a sign that Pak China bond is unbreakable. We have overcome the worst. These little and insignificant jolts don't amount to anything. They are just a conformation that the enemy is frustrated, confused and angry.