Pakistan's economy was deliberately destroyed by Pmln: Dr Ashfaq Hassan

[Abid123]

To all the patwaris on here:

 

[The Accountant]

Just so that I am clear in my understanding of what you are saying here, before we discuss it any farther, what is this "consistent increase" you refer to? The figures you have showed above still show a negative balance that is not substantially improved over the last 2, or even 5 years, minor month to month variations notwithstanding.

Agreed. We r evaluating 2 years of performance only. Out of which first year was year of correction. Second year got distrubed due to covid. However the directional changes made in 1st year started givibg dividends in third year of PTI. So consistent means previous 7 months which are much better in comparison to last 5 years. Most important thing that LSM is reviving after a long time. Textile sector, auto sevtoe, exports, e commerce, IT, pakistan post and health are the few sectors performed great.

After decades we r making 2 huge dams which will transform the agriculture.

Still alot needs to be done in aviation transport steel agriculture.

Key areas where performance was bad are inflation and bureaucracy overhaul

 

[Zibago]

Making things up is the only art PTI have mastered

You are the one making claims with nothing to back them up others are humiliating you with real data and facts

 

[VCheng]

So consistent means previous 7 months which are much better in comparison to last 5 years.

Yes, comparatively better only in the sense that the ship is still sinking, but at a lower rate.

Yes, the trends are better, but are nowhere near enough as positive as is often described, and certainly at an insufficient pace compared to what is required, not just for this term but beyond as well. Everything that you describe is hopeful indeed, but yet to deliver.

If we can agree with the above, I can circle back to the rest of your previous post.

 

[The Accountant]

Yes, comparatively better only in the sense that the ship is still sinking, but at a lower rate.

Yes, the trends are better, but are nowhere near enough as positive as is often described, and certainly at an insufficient pace compared to what is required, not just for this term but beyond as well. Everything that you describe is hopeful indeed, but yet to deliver.

If we can agree with the above, I can circle back to the rest of your previous post.

I agree. This is the hard truth. However as far as i am concern it was all expected. Election campaigns of PTI and talk shows of PTI might project a different picture but i always knew that it cant be done within few years specially with democratic setup.

We need complete overhaul of bureaucracy but same is not possible as most of the parlimentarian are beneficiary of this system.

However i am hopeful if we keep on pushing the agenda of reforms, we might be able to atleast set the right direction in couple of years

 

[VCheng]

I agree. This is the hard truth. However as far as i am concern it was all expected. Election campaigns of PTI and talk shows of PTI might project a different picture but i always knew that it cant be done within few years specially with democratic setup.

We need complete overhaul of bureaucracy but same is not possible as most of the parlimentarian are beneficiary of this system.

However i am hopeful if we keep on pushing the agenda of reforms, we might be able to atleast set the right direction in couple of years

Okay, having established the above, let me circle back to your older post:

You were showing a decrease of 1 month and i counter it by showing a consistent increase of 2 years. So trend is visible. Lets take these point 1 by 1.

The improvements that are mentioned are merely statistical noise, with the underlying imbalances still remaining largely unchanged.

PKR stability: correct valuation of rupee which resulted in significant reduction of unnecesaary import and import substitution and hence reduction of current account deficit. On the other hand alot of work is being done on export increase which includes textile packages, IT special economic zone in isb, other special economic zones, expected new car policy (my colleagues are in contact with government so i know the onsights), ecommerce policy(i myself is part of team from business side whereas we r working with state bank and ministry of commerce to increase exports). Today my colleagues have planned meeting with ministry of commerce of another country for export of vehicles to Pakistan facilitated by government of pakistan as well.

There r lot of efforts being done. Path is set and we have to increase the momentum. U can see currency is stabilized since start of this financial year.

The PKR was sinking fast until PMIK decided to seek IMF assistance against his earlier vows. Presently it is in a holding pattern and will remain so until the results of meeting IMF conditionalities become more evident. It is likely that, like all the times in the past, Pakistan will fail to successfully complete the present IMG program and the PKR will resume its steady downward trends. Inflation will therefore remain a likely feature for domestic prices, specially for imports and imported inputs.

Inflation, yes this is an issue hurting common people. This is the area where significant efforts r required but till to date nothing has worked. So i agree with u as far as inflation is concern.

As the PKR falls in value, as it must over the long term, given the imbalances in the underlying principles, inflation will likely remain high. Pakistan simply consumes far more than it produces, and much of the balance that is rectified by remittances is spent on imported goods, directly or indirectly. The remainder merely causes more inflation for those who earn in PKR, and thus they get priced out of the markets for good housing, schooling and much more besides.

Circulation debt has three issues at it core. Ineffecient distribution system. Buying expensive elctricity and selling it cheap. And dependence on oil based power plants. Work being done includes, after 6 decades 2 mega Dams are actually being constructed rather than just ribbon cutting. This will reduce cost. Renegotiation on pricing with IPPs and increase in prices (which will hurt but in short therm there is no option). LNG dergilization means power plant can import lng at will so any inefeciency on that part will also be eliminated. This is a lot of progress but it will take time to take the effect.

The circular debt continues to rise in the energy sector. Hoping for dams to come online and dent this growth is too far in the future to be of any help currently as the mismanagement causes higher and higher debt until the entire edifice collapses, as it mus, if the basics, regardless of how they were arrived at, remain the same.

IMF program. I dont know what do u mean by this. However, IMF program is a result of budget deficit. After 16 years this is first time we r having primary surplus. Primary surplus in layman terms means we r having money profit before paying interest and loan. More importantly this is during corona when tax returns are low and government expenses are high due to various packages.

I hope you will read this with open mind and we will have a constructive discussion on facts and figures rather than an emotional argument.

Perhaps you may want to read this OP before we proceed further on this point:

IMF and Pakistan Reach Agreement on Pending Reviews Under the Extended Fund Facility

IMF and Pakistan Reach Agreement on Pending Reviews Under the Extended Fund Facility Posted 11 mins ago by ProPK Staff IMF staff and the Pakistani authorities have reached an agreement on a package of measures to complete second to fifth reviews of the authorities’ reform program supported...

defence.pk

Please keep in mind that what the IMF prescribes is based on sound principles, but the government simply does not have the will or the power to implement the required steps. That has not changed since all the prior IMF programs.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Yes, comparatively better only in the sense that the ship is still sinking, but at a lower rate.

You either let the ship sink, or take measures to reduce the water intake and actively work on pumping water out of the vessel. To break decades of stagnation would require at least 10 years of consistent economic performance.

The improvements that are mentioned are merely statistical noise, with the underlying imbalances still remaining largely unchanged.

As the PKR falls in value, as it must over the long term, given the imbalances in the underlying principles, inflation will likely remain high. Pakistan simply consumes far more than it produces, and much of the balance that is rectified by remittances is spent on imported goods, directly or indirectly. The remainder merely causes more inflation for those who earn in PKR, and thus they get priced out of the markets for good housing, schooling and much more besides

Statistical noise? Charts don't lie bhaijaan.

 

[VCheng]

Statistical noise? Charts don't lie bhaijaan.

Any comments about the following chart, specially after 2003?

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Any comments about the following chart, specially after 2003?

View attachment 716915

what about it?

 

[Enigma SIG]

Any comments about the following chart, specially after 2003?

View attachment 716915

You expected the trade balance to go net positive within 2 years?

 

[Mav3rick]

Again I will repeat what I said. There was no proof of terrorism funding. The concrete proof came in the form of HBL and Dubai irregularities while Pakistan was on observation list. Khawaja Asif pushed us over the line.
You are just hell bent of bad mouthing your own country because of your political affiliation/preference, and to cover up for what was unearthed in habib bank and Dubai.

First of all, it does not matter what I say or believe but rather what the world is led to believe. I don't know whether we were involved in Mumbai or not; however, the US authorities officially believe that HS was involved, especially after the testimony of David Coleman Headley. Do you even know what Khawaja Asif did?

And now, for the sake of decency, get this in your brain that being honest does not mean being anti-Pakistan. Not the damnedest thing was uncovered in HBL incident which shouldn't have been blamed more so on the Saudi Bank rather than HBL (and not anything related to UAE). The Saudi Bank was transferring funds into HBL instead of doing due diligence at their end; HBL was merely targeted to punish Pakistan.

Nope they did the right thing, putting them on trial was same as accepting that we did that. Nawaz wanted that to please India. He used geo to further that narrative, remember the fake family Hamid Mir discovered. The evidence clearly pointed out it was an inside job. Kasab was never a Pakistani.

Again, you can blame NS all you want; and he should be blamed for matters which occurred during his Governance. However, it was during PPP era when HS should either have been tried in our court or defended at UN. We did nothing which led to HS and his organizations being labelled as entities related to terrorism leading to placement on UN Global Terrorist Watchlist. Was doing all that, I mean not defending HS at the UN, doing us any favors?

On Kasab, there are various stories, from him being a Pakistani citizen being led astray to him being on a tour of Nepal from where he was kidnapped by RAW to him not being related to Pakistan at all. However, had he not been a Pakistani, it would have been proved by now and Indian narrative would have been dismissed globally.

India's diplomatic victory was due to our diplomatic loss. The horrendous ten years of humiliation we faced because of the traitors in power. They used every opportunity to stab army in back, bad mouth them, destroy their prestige and reputation.

I wonder why any civilian Government has to do that at all. I mean, why would an elected representative of the people of Pakistan treat the Military, a subservient organization tasked only with defense of Pakistan from external threats, in a manner which you have described? Is it possible that we are led to believe that the Military is the only savior of Pakistan and hence they should have immunity for all their actions?

 

[The Accountant]

First of all, it does not matter what I say or believe but rather what the world is led to believe. I don't know whether we were involved in Mumbai or not; however, the US authorities officially believe that HS was involved, especially after the testimony of David Coleman Headley. Do you even know what Khawaja Asif did?

And now, for the sake of decency, get this in your brain that being honest does not mean being anti-Pakistan. Not the damnedest thing was uncovered in HBL incident which shouldn't have been blamed more so on the Saudi Bank rather than HBL (and not anything related to UAE). The Saudi Bank was transferring funds into HBL instead of doing due diligence at their end; HBL was merely targeted to punish Pakistan.





Again, you can blame NS all you want; and he should be blamed for matters which occurred during his Governance. However, it was during PPP era when HS should either have been tried in our court or defended at UN. We did nothing which led to HS and his organizations being labelled as entities related to terrorism leading to placement on UN Global Terrorist Watchlist. Was doing all that, I mean not defending HS at the UN, doing us any favors?

On Kasab, there are various stories, from him being a Pakistani citizen being led astray to him being on a tour of Nepal from where he was kidnapped by RAW to him not being related to Pakistan at all. However, had he not been a Pakistani, it would have been proved by now and Indian narrative would have been dismissed globally.





I wonder why any civilian Government has to do that at all. I mean, why would an elected representative of the people of Pakistan treat the Military, a subservient organization tasked only with defense of Pakistan from external threats, in a manner which you have described? Is it possible that we are led to believe that the Military is the only savior of Pakistan and hence they should have immunity for all their actions?

No they should not have any immunity. But when we r talking about one culprit then why the justification is wo bhi tu aisa hi hai ?

If someone is questioning NS then in defence why the answere is fouj ko bui tu dekho ppp or pti ko bhi dekho?

Bhai pmln apny kurtoot ka jawab dy or fpuj ko accountable tehrana ha tu zaroor tehrao but for the wrong they do not to control them for own benefits...

We all knows that this is war of power and not a war of well being of people.

Fouj is not a savour but still the only institute having some discpline is fighting against enemies of pakistan.

 

[Mav3rick]

No they should not have any immunity. But when we r talking about one culprit then why the justification is wo bhi tu aisa hi hai ?

If someone is questioning NS then in defence why the answere is fouj ko bui tu dekho ppp or pti ko bhi dekho?

Bhai pmln apny kurtoot ka jawab dy or fpuj ko accountable tehrana ha tu zaroor tehrao but for the wrong they do not to control them for own benefits...

We all knows that this is war of power and not a war of well being of people.

Fouj is not a savour but still the only institute having some discpline is fighting against enemies of pakistan.

On that I agree, No justification in trying to justify 1 wrong with another. Where NS is wrong, he has to answer but for that we need much better forensic accountants and firms with access to international transactions........accountability MUST mean real accountability and not a lot of BS. So far, I haven't seen a dime recovered from NS or Zardari even though it is well knows how much they have polluted the political ecosystem with corruption.

Accountability against PML & PPP should be sufficient to clear a large portion of our external debt, if done with dedication, integrity, honesty and expertise.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Accountability against PML & PPP should be sufficient to clear a large portion of our external debt, if done with dedication, integrity, honesty and expertise.

as much as i want that, its not going to happen in this term. the more important thing is stabalise the economy, find ways to control inflation, put some groundwork and laws in place for GDP and jobs to increase. when that is done and we are no longer one event from financial meltdown, then go after recovering the money from the Sharifs and Zardaris.

 

[The Accountant]

On that I agree, No justification in trying to justify 1 wrong with another. Where NS is wrong, he has to answer but for that we need much better forensic accountants and firms with access to international transactions........accountability MUST mean real accountability and not a lot of BS. So far, I haven't seen a dime recovered from NS or Zardari even though it is well knows how much they have polluted the political ecosystem with corruption.

Accountability against PML & PPP should be sufficient to clear a large portion of our external debt, if done with dedication, integrity, honesty and expertise.

Te system is systematically destroyed over decades. Shabbar zaidi is the key example. U cant have a person better than him to kead the fbr. But it was one honest competent person against 22,000. Similar is the case with all the government organizations including NAB and FIA.

It will take alot of time efforts and expertise to change the entire corrupt and incompetent workforce.