Pakistan's Battlefield Nuclear Policy A Risky Solution to an Exaggerated Threat

[Bratva]

No Its Very Sadistic Approach Use Last Possible Deterrent In Conventional War It give Hint How Immature And Careless Approach Authoritarian Military Regime Has For Its Own People.That are Ready to Genocide Its Own Population In Name of False National Pride Ego

Its Shows How Pakistan Military Physiologically Contest Defeat That it Can't take IA in Conventionally.

Which Population is living in Thar/Rajhastan deserts ?

 

[Genghis khan1]

Tactical Nukes are used as a last resort, when it is hard to hold back multiple waves of enemy attack. For example. In a war scenario, Indian general decided to concentrate their whole II Corps (Strike Corps) toward Lahore or Sialkot region, since they are the major city close to border. This means there will be 3 Division of IA each consisting of 3 to 4 mix of Armoured and Infantry Brigades plus their support Engineering and Air-defence Brigade. let say, IA initiated their attack using 2 Armoured and 2 Infantry Brigades reinforced by another wave of an Armoured and 2 Infantry Brigades. Suppose there is one Armoured and one Infantry Barigade of PA defending Lahore region, despite all the motivation and tactic, numerical superiority of Indian Army will eventually break through PA defences. PA may not be able to hold back 5th or 6th Brigade size reinforcement or wave of attack. At this moment when enemy has almost overrun your position, and is obviously on your side of border, but hasn't reach it intended target yet (Lahore or Sialkot). Tactical Nukes are used.

So basically, Tactical Nukes is a worst case scenario weapon intended to be used in least populated border area to stop overwhelming large or wave after wave of enemy attack. I think purpose of using it in your own area rather than enemy, is not to escalate or confuse last resort defensive limited nuclear employment into full scale offensive nuclear exchange. Pakistan is using the same method NATO has used to contain the Soviets during the cold war.

 

[Genghis khan1]

NATO actually withdrew their TNWs, as they were deemed counterproductive.

Like India, Soviet union too had No First Use but massive retaliation doctrine. NATO summarized use of these TNWs may invite a full scale strategic response.

You basically restated what Colin powell said in the end. Fact is NATO withdrew TNW after Soviet union collapsed and so threat of Soviet invasion in Europe ended.

 

[BABA AGHORI]

I think Pakistan and India should make an agreement of no strategic nuclear use in a war even if battle field nuclear weapons are used. This will be good for peace and avoid massive destruction of both the nations.

Yes, Let us make the same agreement removing word strategic... coz for India bottom line is, a nuke is a nuke and will remain a nuke.. a tactical or strategic....

I love palak paneer

aapke liye paalak paneer.. bakiyon ke liye palaak gosh... aap tashreef toh layein gushbo legga ke..

 

[Photon]

You basically restated what Colin powell said in the end. Fact is NATO withdrew TNW after Soviet union collapsed and so threat of Soviet invasion in Europe ended.

No, Nato started withdrawing Tactical Nukes from Europe, in second half of the 60s itself.

 

[Gufi]

How many Nasr Deployed ???where

Stop asking stupid questions
Enough of this missile is copied or this missile is not deployed
and stop making everything bold, those options are for proper well thought out headings, not so u can make your own font bigger
have facts or stop your stupid assumptions

No Im Based My facts on India Matured SLV & rocket Technology that Evidence in its self

No it is not evidence in itself

this Image itself is Dis regarded By Mant Senior Poster in PDF
So Me the Any Authentic Source

Nasr is still Not Deployed Not even in Production yet

No Don't give Conspiracy theories Again

quit your obsession, we will not tell the world what we induct and how much we induct

@WAJsal have a word with this one

 

[Gufi]

As using Bold Words Its My Signature To Represent My View in Whatever Way I want

Those are for editing longer posts with headings, not to make things bold... What if the other person makes his font even bigger and a thread ends up being a rainbow of different font sizes...
As for off topics report them, you are getting aggressive and ur language was getting iffy...
as for that debate, every coin has two sides... failed tests may be an illusion to show they are actually doing things themselves but could be rigged... technology could be transferred and footprints hidden... Anyone can accuse anyone else of those things...
As for the reality, it does not matter who made the missiles as long as they function... and can be duplicated. If you argue on the lines of technology transfer and ethics neither nation an come on top

 

[Gufi]

He is asking simple think, pls post the link that prove that NASR have been inducted into the services, thats it.

Post link to show any missile in Pakistan is part of the induction... We do not have red carpet inductions, we do it quietly

 

[I M Sikander]

Which sea based nuclear weapons does Pakistan have ?

Answer this honestly, is there anywhere, Pakistan can hide its nuclear weapons ,where India first strike can not reach. them?

If the Answer is No..then Pakistan does not have an assured second strike capability.

India's also don't have an operational sea based second strike capability. India sea based strike capability are still under testing and trial phase.
Who is that idiot who told you that second strike capability is only based in sea.

Wether you like it or not, off our two countries , only one our nation has the ability to survive a full scale nuclear war.

And Pakistan is not that country, due to multitude of reasons like much lesser geographical area, and population.

Wether India preempts Pakistani nuclear strike or fires second, it will be curtain for Pakistan.

But If India pre-emts Pakistan's nuclear strikes, Indian chances of survival increase manifolds, As Pakistan has very limited second strike capability, and Indians know this fact.

What your criteria of survival, would you mind to elaborate.

In your opinion, if 10 crore Pakistanis are killed and in retaliation 25 crore Indians are killed than you consider this a survival?.

 

[khanmubashir]

this is a very stupid article 1st of all it considers 30kt weapon as a TNW 17 kt and 20+ something were the power of nukes dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki respectively so it ain't TNW for 5kt no sound person is gona use it inside or near major crowded areas of its own country and u dont get to top of yr institution by being stupid TNW r meant to stave off invasion and will be used if needed in desert area or attack specific military targets inside enemy areas while minimizing civilian casualties
and suppose if enemy forces do make it through and reach it won't be like 10000s of military personnel and their heavy and slow moving machinery would take over whole cities in few hrs(this is what indians thought in 65 but after 17 days had to sign truce) it took days for usa to occupy major iraqi and afghan cities and we do have access to chinese sats and our own awacs and intel system we would know before a major portion has crossed border and we only have to nuke those at the middle and back of the line (majority) the front would ie surrender or be easily taken cared
personally i think nasr is a propaganda weapon who needs 60km ballistic missile when u got 700km+ stealthy cruise babar and 350km raad (these days u can fire projectile from canon near 100km)which can deliver both tactical and strategic nasr is just to make world concern about conventional imbalance in south asia to force india towards dialogue

 

[I M Sikander]

In February 2016, INS Arihant was confirmed ready for operations.
Just last month , INS Arihant fired a 3500 Km range SLBM.

It will be commissioned any day now,

You already accept the sea based strike capability is still in testing and trial.

A second strike capability can be based anywhere, but an assured second strike capability has to be sea based, especially if you enemy has the ability hit, any target, anywhere in your landmass.

So what's the point of disagreement. I am also saying the same thing, second strike capability can be sea or land based.

 

[Soulspeek]

Who knows, India might itself nuke attack its own (not strategic) land, claim victimhood... and fire full salvo of nukes on Pakistan as 'retaliation'..

Dangerous thought indeed

Wether you like it or not, off our two countries , only one our nation has the ability to survive a full scale nuclear war.

And Pakistan is not that country, due to multitude of reasons like much lesser geographical area, and population.

Wether India preempts Pakistani nuclear strike or fires second, it will be curtain for Pakistan.

But If India pre-emts Pakistan's nuclear strikes, Indian chances of survival increase manifolds, As Pakistan has very limited second strike capability, and Indians know this fact.

 

[knight11]

Post link to show any missile in Pakistan is part of the induction... We do not have red carpet inductions, we do it quietly

1. LOLZ What here is hapening is any question which you fail to answer is only reported and deleted for trolling, and if the Indian person ask for the facts, then he is banned. Really do you want a fare discussion or just the chest thumping by your country men members yourself.

2. Check, some of your members saying that Indians are paranoid for the NASR, and only the name NASR means the cold start docterine is failed, but in reality its you who are paranoid of the Guided Weishu Rocket System aka M-20 aka NASR.

3. I know I most probably be banned, but a noobe question, the Ballastic Missile needs the GPS guidance to reach its target, and when the condition between India and Pakistan will become tense, the first thing what the international community will do is they will stop the GPS service like GPS, GLOSNOV, Baideau etc. Now you will say why would China will stop its service, and before I am being banned I answer this question, because in the event of the Nuclear explosion by the Pakistan, all the evidence could be collected from the ground Zero, which will point toward the China.

4. India on the otherhand, will have its own Navigation system, developed because we too was denied of the GPS service during the Kargil war which will be ready by this year.

5. There are Moderator specially @HRK (let me call him myself, before the Pakistani Members call him for the resecue) who will delete this post, and likely to see this post as the trolling but care to explain, you have inducted NASR with couple of test, but Pakistani Army is ready with the tactical nuclear weapon without preparing to fight under NBC environment, and without NBC gears. Care to post the equipments, tools which Pakistani Army have procured to fight in the environment and training which it is going to create in the battle field other wise no one is going to digest such things except Pakistani people.

India have been working on CBRN from 80's and here is Indian Navy ready for NBC environment link http://zeenews.india.com/news/natio...-simulator-training-facility-soon_607917.html

Here is the link for the CBRN training in India.

http://www.jpbsonline.org/article.a...ssue=3;spage=275;epage=280;aulast=Sharma#ref5

Here is the excert check this out

In the 1980s, the Indian army began some tentative preparations for NBC warfare. In the early part of that decade, a limited quantity of S6 respirators and No.1Mk.3 NBC suits - both of British origin - was purchased. A quantity of NBC equipment was imported from the USSR, but proved to be useless in Indian environmental conditions. Moreover, India's defence research organization, in 1987, produced prototypes of NBC suits, decontamination suits, facelets, overboots and NBC tents. This equipment has entered production and service with the Indian armed forces.


As regards training, from 1987 onwards, the Indian army, through its College of Military Engineering, began running familiarization courses in NBC warfare, while scientist conducted courses at brigade level. Moreover, a series of studies were undertaken to provide for both active and passive defence against nuclear attack for army combat formations.


As regards equipment, the Indian Ministry of Defence has obviously allocated high priority to the indigenous production of NBC gear. This has also involved the participation of the private sector for the manufacture of both NBC suits and respirators. In addition, the Indian army has retained its old Second World War respirators - these are old, but would still offer significant protection. India would not find it particularly difficult to produce enough NBC personal gear - respirators and NBC suits - for its armed forces in a relatively short period of time - though this equipment might be placed in storage. Mention should also be made of the fact that a new decontamination vehicle has entered production.


While it is abundantly clear that NBC warfare has been accorded a much higher priority in the Indian army, it remains unclear as to the exact status of NBC preparedness and training in the Indian army. Attempts to contact senior military officers on this subject proved unsuccessful, though some retired officers offered some vague information that leads to the conclusion that some training is in progress.


It has become clear that India's Army Training Command has conducted detailed studies into NBC warfare. Indeed, given India's perception of its nuclear threat, it is not surprising that the Indian army schools of instruction and combat include NBC scenarios. Moreover, the publisher of the prestigious Indian Defence Review stated that the forces earmarked for use against Pakistan are well equipped to deal with NBC warfare.


It would be natural for India's Strike Corps to be the first to be fully equipped and prepared for NBC warfare and there are some indications of this beginning to occur. It is highly probable that at least one Corps is fully prepared - trained and equipped for NBC warfare. The other formations would probably receive personal NBC gear - but will be allocated a lower priority for receiving decontamination and monitoring equipment. It should be pointed out that the RAPIDS require virtually no modifications for deployment in an NBC environment.


It can probably be assumed that the state of NBC warfare in Pakistan is in a similar state to that of India, except that Pakistan's industry is not yet capable of meeting all NBC needs and that the country lacks the massive R & D infrastructure of India. Indian sources assume that Pakistan has a nucleus of NBC trained personnel - with Chinese NBC gear.
One thing is clear, however, both countries have now made NBC warfare something of a priority and are making efforts - covertly - to train and equip themselves. Nonetheless, there may be a large gap between what the military wants and reality.


While there is some reference to NBC warfare and the necessity to fight under such conditions in both armies, there have never been any major NBC exercises conducted by either side. It is therefore not inconceivable that the principal focus of NBC training and equipment programs in both countries is more geared towards meeting an emergency that might arise after one side uses such weapons. This would involve stockpiling equipment and drafting rapid training instructions - aimed at rapidly familiarizing troops who have to enter an NBC contaminated area. It does not seem that either country intends to develop a tactical nuclear warfare doctrine.


One of the reasons for the lack of NBC exercises could be the extremely severe environmental conditions prevailing on the South Asian battlefield. These conditions range from the intense cold of the Siachen glacier to the blistering heat of the Thar desert. Under normal peacetime conditions these climates pose great difficulties for human endurance, if the troops were clad in full NBC gear and armoured vehicles 'buttoned-up', there would be more casualties from heat-stroke than from exposure.


This brings us to the other issue that needs to be considered - where on the South Asian battlefield could tactical nuclear weapons possibly be used ? The answer to this question will determine whether or not there is any battlefield use for nuclear weapons.

For battlefield preparedness, in 2003, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) handed over India’s first indigenously produced NBC reconnaissance vehicle to the Indian army. 26 The NBC reconnaissance vehicles are fitted with developed “nerve agent detectors, dosimeters, portable gas, chromatographs, auto-injectors, firstaid kits, antidotes, NBC respiratory masks and suits, roentgen meters, NBC filters, decontamination kits for troops to fight through an NBC environment.” 27 The Strike Corps are also being equipped to fight through an NBC environment.28 The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has also stressed on indegenised NBC gears. The DRDO in 2015 has developed NBC Mark V suit for the Indian Army which is lighter than the Mark IV suit used by the Indian Army and therefore, ensures greater mobility. The suit is reported to be made with activated carbon spheres that could protect the troops from NBC environment 24 hours. 29 The Indian Army’s main battle tanks (MBT) and Infantry Combat Vehicles (ICVs) are also capable of operating in an NBC environment with the help of overpressure and air filtration system and by operating through closed down mode. For automated NBC protection for the BMP-2/2K ICV, Radiation Detection Measurement and Control (RADMAC) unit is developed along with Automated Control Unit (ACU), and Blower Control Unit (BCU).30 According to Bharat Karnad, a strategist, such capabilities to operate in a NBC environment would become a “cutting edge” in India’s Cold Start doctrine.31 The Combat Vehicles Research and and Development Establishment (CVRDE) has also ventured into Unmanned Ground Vehicles (UGV)- Muntra N which are designed for NBC reconaissance through tele-operated, autonomous and manned modes. 32The Carrier Command Post Tracked (CCPT) vehicle which houses the Artillery Combat Command and Control System (ACCCS) to ensure accomplishment of fire control functions of towed and self propelled artillery guns is equipped with automated NBC protection too. The battery command center for Akash surfaceto-air missile system that would need to move along with the MBTs is also equipped with high quality NBC protection.33 The Army’s Multi Barrel Rocket Launchers, PINAKA also provides NBC protection for its crew. Other self propelled artillery guns like the Bhim would have NBC overpressure to counter the NBC threat.


6. How is it possible that anything which you don't like is called disrespect to the Pakistan, and Pakistani members have full authority and right to use the words like Moron to the PM of Republic of India, Dehati Aurat to former PM, and words such as Randi Rona by even the PDF moderator cum think tank can post .

7. How is possible that any question if we asked from the member if he post something is termed as the trolling, and given the warning when we ask for facts. Is this what you want here in this open defense forum. Better make the statement, that we should only post, what the Pakistani Members, Pakistani PDF think tank so that we can follow that suits you.


@randomradio @MilSpec @nair @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @dadeechi @waz @WebMaster

 

[Genghis khan1]

No, Nato started withdrawing Tactical Nukes from Europe, in second half of the 60s itself.

See now you are just talking out of your *** without any source. It was not until 1989 US decided to start withdrawing tactical Nukes from Europe. The idea was to talk with recently broken and weakened Russian federation about the reduction of Nukes.

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB1103.pdf

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

1. LOLZ What here is hapening is any question which you fail to answer is only reported and deleted for trolling, and if the Indian person ask for the facts, then he is banned. Really do you want a fare discussion or just the chest thumping by your country men members yourself.

2. Check, some of your members saying that Indians are paranoid for the NASR, and only the name NASR means the cold start docterine is failed, but in reality its you who are paranoid of the Guided Weishu Rocket System aka M-20 aka NASR.

3. I know I most probably be banned, but a noobe question, the Ballastic Missile needs the GPS guidance to reach its target, and when the condition between India and Pakistan will become tense, the first thing what the international community will do is they will stop the GPS service like GPS, GLOSNOV, Baideau etc. Now you will say why would China will stop its service, and before I am being banned I answer this question, because in the event of the Nuclear explosion by the Pakistan, all the evidence could be collected from the ground Zero, which will point toward the China.

4. India on the otherhand, will have its own Navigation system, developed because we too was denied of the GPS service during the Kargil war.

5. There are Moderator specially @HRK (let me call him myself, before the Pakistani Members call him for the resecue) who will delete this post, and likely to see this post as the trolling but care to explain, you have inducted NASR with couple of test, but Pakistani Army is ready with the tactical nuclear weapon without preparing to fight under NBC environment, and without NBC gears. Care to post the equipments, tools which Pakistani Army have procured to fight in the environment which it is going to create in the battle field other wise no one is going to digest such things except Pakistani people.

And what's the world going to do about it with regards to China? In May/June 1998 indians were saying that the whole world will isolate/destroy and condemn China for helping Pakistan becoming a nuclear weapons state. Yet here in 2016 China is only 1 of 2 nations on earth that is a superpower on track to becoming a global hyper power. China and america are 2 nations that the whole world cannot do NOTHING about. If your above post was true then the indian military would have attacked Pakistan after mumbai 26/11/2008.