pakistan's and their reluctance to evolve with western culture.

[Hell hound]

this thread is made for continuation of discussion from Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad?
my last post in that thread was
believe me i would be more then happy to see my people to become more like them in every field and behavior.but let me remind you those thing which were taboos few years ago are norms of today like voting rights of women racial discrimination and slavery. islam allow you to own slave but then why every Islamic country has abolished it.we were allowed to own slave with few condition met then why we abandon that practice let me tell you why because it was out dated practice with no place in today's society.same things happen with racial laws and women rights.world is changing and we need to change with it.i am not saying that we should blindly follow western or any other culture.but we should give them a chance to merge with ours to make a more tolerating and flexible Pakistan because if we don't world will move forward an we will be left behind and alone.look at turkey uae Malaysia they didn't lost their culture but simply merged it with international one and they are far more accepted then we are.

Source: Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad? | Page 6
@Ammara Chaudhry

 

[Zibago]

this thread is made for continuation of discussion from Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad?
my last post in that thread was
believe me i would be more then happy to see my people to become more like them in every field and behavior.but let me remind you those thing which were taboos few years ago are norms of today like voting rights of women racial discrimination and slavery. islam allow you to own slave but then why every Islamic country has abolished it.we were allowed to own slave with few condition met then why we abandon that practice let me tell you why because it was out dated practice with no place in today's society.same things happen with racial laws and women rights.world is changing and we need to change with it.i am not saying that we should blindly follow western or any other culture.but we should give them a chance to merge with ours to make a more tolerating and flexible Pakistan because if we don't world will move forward an we will be left behind and alone.look at turkey uae Malaysia they didn't lost their culture but simply merged it with international one and they are far more accepted then we are.

Source: Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad? | Page 6
@Ammara Chaudhry

He cant stop anything did his tough measures stop heroine sales in Islamabad?
No it just gets less orominent you cant do moral policing in the 21st century

 

[Hell hound]

He cant stop anything did his tough measures stop heroine sales in Islamabad?
No it just gets less orominent you cant do moral policing in the 21st century

but who gives these mullah power to moral police surely its not our law and why aren't our police stopping them.

 

[somebozo]

The question is why should we????
do westerners end up wearing shalwar kameez and eating nihari enmass??

We have very diverse indigenious culture and this Valentine day is just a commercial rubbish...

 

[Vapnope]

I am all up for a liberal Pakistan, but why we have to accept Western Culture? We can have our very own culture based on equality and justice.

 

[Hell hound]

The question is why should we????
do westerners end up wearing shalwar kameez and eating nihari enmass??

We have very diverse indigenious culture and this Valentine day is just a commercial rubbish...

because culture like anything else should evolve with time and we are doing it for them but we are doing it for us it should not concern us either they wear shalwar qamez or not what should matter to us is that can we wear pant shirt comfortably if we can then we should adopt it otherwise throw it away.what i want pakistan to do is try to adapt to different cultures instead out right rejecting them with out even trying them.

 

[somebozo]

because culture like anything else should evolve with time and we are doing it for them but we are doing it for us it should not concern us either they wear shalwar qamez or not what should matter to us is that can we wear pant shirt comfortably if we can then we should adopt it otherwise throw it away.what i want pakistan to do is try to adapt to different cultures instead out right rejecting them with out even trying them.

And in the process become a ABCD nation...

 

[Hell hound]

And in the process become a ABCD nation...

so it means we should not change part of our culture which are decade behind the 21 century like aurat ka ghar kay bahi kya kam hay(women should not work outside her home mentality) or transgender ko koi nuakri na do(transgenders should not be employed) or apni zat sau bahir shadi nahi karni(marriage out of ones cast) or things like cousin marriages and lots of cultural things like these need to go if we want to progress.i know lot of these things are changing with passage of time but still process is slow and we are reluctant to these changes if you don't believe me visit the villages where 70% of our population resides and you will see how deeply these concepts are drilled into our culture.mate its time to change and adopt the 21 century look at Japanese they are best example of cultural merger they eat there traditional food while playing baseball.adapting another culture doesn't kill ones own culture but enhances it make it more beautiful and flexible.

 

[untitled]

@Hell hound did the western civilization become great in the 21st century? Was it always called the western civilization? When did liberal ideas begin to flourish in this so called western civilization?

 

[Sky lord]

Actually this is an interesting topic for all non-western cultures and I am surprised it hasn't caught on fire already - so here are my two cents to keep the conversation going.

@Hell hound I don't know what you mean by "merge" with western culture - does that mean wholesale adoption of all things western? That would be a very bad idea in my opinion. Not because there is anything wrong with western culture but because it would make us Asians rootless and with nothing to be proud of, no memory of our ancestors...what does that make us ...wannabe brown Englishmen....always second grade...always looking to their heroes? No thanks , I will pass on that. It is neither desirable nor necessary. In fact every culture that whole sale or in large part transplanted an alien culture has become a failure - look at native Americans - today they are mostly diabetic, alcoholic and living on welfare. The same goes for aborigines in Australia and some of the African tribes.

No, we need to keep our own culture and our own history, we need to revere our ancestors, keep and improve our literary traditions, our music and art and pass on our traditions to our children.

BUT culture is not static, it is dynamic. Culture needs to be MODERNIZED and brought into the 21 st century as required. Like you said slavery is not OK anymore, nor is mistreatment of women, children or lower classes. This is very different to wholesale adoption of someone else's culture.

The west is continuously modernizing and changing its own culture through internal debate. They have adopted many things from us. In fact we are doing the same in Asia too, just that we started later so we have further to go.

 

[Paksanity]

YET PAKISTANI'S TILL THE ARAB SPRING WERE THE MOST ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE WORLD
YET THE VISA LINES IN FRONT OF EUROPEAN EMBASSIES ARE THE LONGEST?

Afghans hold the crown, then Mexicans maybe

 

[Hell hound]

@Hell hound did the western civilization become great in the 21st century? Was it always called the western civilization? When did liberal ideas begin to flourish in this so called western civilization?

western civilization and liberal idea has their roots in late renaissance era when they start rejecting popes they separated the religion from their politics this was first step. then came the era of king and tyrants with expansionist which remains until 1945 in this era they were cruel and racist so at the end of this era it gave birth to human rights.they come to know the value of peace after 1945 and united to further develop human rights and work as one unit for betterment of their society and now look at them.there is no need to reinvent the wheel we can learn a lot from them instead of spending centuries on natural progression we might bypass this process and jump years ahead by learning from them as they did learn from arabs in the past.

Actually this is an interesting topic for all non-western cultures and I am surprised it hasn't caught on fire already - so here are my two cents to keep the conversation going.

@Hell hound I don't know what you mean by "merge" with western culture - does that mean wholesale adoption of all things western? That would be a very bad idea in my opinion. Not because there is anything wrong with western culture but because it would make us Asians rootless and with nothing to be proud of, no memory of our ancestors...what does that make us ...wannabe brown Englishmen....always second grade...always looking to their heroes? No thanks , I will pass on that. It is neither desirable nor necessary. In fact every culture that whole sale or in large part transplanted an alien culture has become a failure - look at native Americans - today they are mostly diabetic, alcoholic and living on welfare. The same goes for aborigines in Australia and some of the African tribes.

No, we need to keep our own culture and our own history, we need to revere our ancestors, keep and improve our literary traditions, our music and art and pass on our traditions to our children.

BUT culture is not static, it is dynamic. Culture needs to be MODERNIZED and brought into the 21 st century as required. Like you said slavery is not OK anymore, nor is mistreatment of women, children or lower classes. This is very different to wholesale adoption of someone else's culture.

The west is continuously modernizing and changing its own culture through internal debate. They have adopted many things from us. In fact we are doing the same in Asia too, just that we started later so we have further to go.

no mate that wasn't the point i was trying to convey what i was saying is that we have habit to out rite reject the western value and culture without even trying it out without even learning the bases behind it .this is the thought process which bugs me.i am not saying copy every thing from west but pls stop shaming their culture and try to learn some thing from it if those value don't extremely contradicts with your own's then give them a chance to merge with your culture. believe me it will do miracles.

 

[airmarshal]

So should we celebrate Valentine's Day? Just like its done in West.

We dont even know when and how Valentine's day is spent living in Canada but Pakistanis are so passionate about it. By itself Valentines is not a bad thing. But why we want to celebrate it over the top and with such fervor that we waste so much space discussing its pro and cons?

The core issue is moral degradation and depravity with which we want to celebrate. A kind of frustration we have for opposite sex, this day it seems gives a vent to it. The media in Pakistan gives it coverage in a cheap, crass and uncultured manner. There seems to be a moral decline in society and this day to many is a symptom of that. A fear of an unknown and how their children will fare in this system.

The trouble with us that we dont want to adopt west's values when it comes to work ethic, professionalism, enterprise and industry but we want the full dose of decadence that comes as result of it. Thus we as society, without going through the cycle of economic development have arrived at the point where a such society is already looking at the decline, in values and in power.

Thats my concern and thats the concern of many in Pakistan who might not be able to give words to their sentiment but express it in anger and desperation.

 

[Musafir117]

YET PAKISTANI'S TILL THE ARAB SPRING WERE THE MOST ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE WORLD
YET THE VISA LINES IN FRONT OF EUROPEAN EMBASSIES ARE THE LONGEST?

Caps Lock? Fix it or will be reported next time.
Don't worry we keep our culture wherever we go, adopt good one from other and leave bad one of yours.

 

[untitled]

I AM SHIVERING AT YOUR THREAT.
........

So are you happy with Pakistan's present state or sad?