pakistan's and their reluctance to evolve with western culture.

[Dalit]

The only reason liberals are forced to comment in such a way I believe is because of the unrelenting holier than thou attitude shown by the conservatives who leave no stone unturned in accusing liberals of being foreign paid agents and kaafirs and traitors and whatnot. I also maintain that liberals trying to impose their western bias on others is also incorrect, and instead of showing their frustration by denouncing their own culture they should make the conservatives see reason and rationale.
And what you say is right, every region has it's own culture and values, but with the massive globalisation that has taken place in the last few decades you can't expect all people within the same country to have the same way of life/lifestyle. It's just not possible.

Pakistanis cannot be blamed for being cautious, suspicious and even paranoid after all that has happened. Today we have maniac liberals like Pervez Hoodhboy who denounce Pakistan's nuclear capability and even the very existence of this country. That isn't a very good advertisement for liberals. People have every reason to question the behavior and intentions of certain liberal individuals. So called liberals in this country have shattered the trust of the common man. I don't even know where to begin. Mullahs and liberals are alike for me. Both accuse each other of wrongdoing, yet both are responsible for causing unprecedented damage to Pakistan. This is the truth in all fairness.

The Europeans on the contrary do expect and demand one set of culture which is theirs. When immigrants go to their respective countries they expect them to speak their language and integrate according tot their norms and customs. There is nothing wrong when Pakistanis demand the same. We have our unique set of norms and customs and we are proud of them. We don't require to import foreign and alien norms and customs. We don't require Mullahism and liberalism. We only require Pakistaniat. The common Pakistani is sick and tired of the quarreling between liberals and conservatives.

The title of this thread is an outrage in itself which suggests that Pakistanis ought to evolve with Western culture. Like as if that it is a norm for every individual country on this planet. It reeks with self disbelief and identity crisis.

 

[Desert Fox]

For our Western cultural slaves known as "Pakistani liberals":

The prophet (S.A.W.) said, "You will surely follow the ways, steps, or traditions of those who came before you, span by span and yard by yard (very closely) even if they entered into a lizard's hole you will enter it." The companions asked, "O prophet, you mean the Jews and Christians?" He replied, "Who else!?" [Reported by Imaam Bukhaari] In another hadeeth, he clearly prohibited imitation stating, "If one imitates another nation or people, he will be from them." [Reported by Imaam Abu-Daawud]

 

[Dalit]

For our Western cultural slaves known as "Pakistani liberals":

The prophet (S.A.W.) said, "You will surely follow the ways, steps, or traditions of those who came before you, span by span and yard by yard (very closely) even if they entered into a lizard's hole you will enter it." The companions asked, "O prophet, you mean the Jews and Christians?" He replied, "Who else!?" [Reported by Imaam Bukhaari] In another hadeeth, he clearly prohibited imitation stating, "If one imitates another nation or people, he will be from them." [Reported by Imaam Abu-Daawud]

Who better to quote than the ultimate rolemodel in the universe holy prophet PBUH. The beacon of tolerance. It is the simple truth. We imitate those we adore and see as our rolemodel. Imitating certain positive Western values is a must. Today, the Western world is more Islamic in certain regards than most Muslim countries. It is a shame the liberals don't realize this. Just the irony of it all...

 

[nvKyleBrown]

For our Western cultural slaves known as "Pakistani liberals":

The prophet (S.A.W.) said, "You will surely follow the ways, steps, or traditions of those who came before you, span by span and yard by yard (very closely) even if they entered into a lizard's hole you will enter it." The companions asked, "O prophet, you mean the Jews and Christians?" He replied, "Who else!?" [Reported by Imaam Bukhaari] In another hadeeth, he clearly prohibited imitation stating, "If one imitates another nation or people, he will be from them." [Reported by Imaam Abu-Daawud]

Sooo, you're all Arabs now...?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Sooo, you're all Arabs now...?

Pakistanis have far more in common with Arabs than we do with Western peoples or any other peoples far that matter.

 

[Dalit]

Sooo, you're all Arabs now...?

You don't have to be an Arab to be a Muslim. Learn the difference. Also, Pakistanis share more commonality with Arab culture than it does with Western culture.

 

[Desert Fox]

Sooo, you're all Arabs now...?

We are Muslims, the followers of Muhammad (S.A.W.) and the slaves of Allah (S.W.T.).

 

[nvKyleBrown]

Either way, you're not longer "Pakistani" - you've changed through the introduction of another culture (Islamic, or Arabic culture, which *are* very linked). Or rather, you great-great-great...-grandfathers did. Or were forced to, depending on who's history book you read.

 

[untitled]

Sooo, you're all Arabs now...?

The US prides itself as a nation whose culture is based on Judeo Christian beliefs. Does it mean they are Israelites just because Jesus AS was one?

 

[Dandpatta]

Unfortunately, the general concept of "modern" is easily equated to being "western".
I have lived out of India for a major part of my life and I would safely say, there is nothing wrong in following your own culture, traditions and your own norms of heritage. It is the MIND that needs to be free of regressive shackles of misinterpreted verses of Holy Books.

Honestly, I find some mid-western American towny to be less modern than an urban Pakistani/Indian (or non-westerner).

And on the topic of western. We often simplify our concept of the west largely to the Anglo-Saxon nations. You go to East Europe and people there happen to be quite orthodox in their views. Being WHITE and WESTERN does not automatically make you 'Modern'.

On a lighter note - Mr. & Mrs. Javed celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary.
They threw a very big anniversary party and lot of people heard Mr. Javed call his better half "Darling" all the time.

Quite a few people were amazed at such display of love. One of the guests later asked Mr.Javed - "Javed ji, aap ka pyaar to kamaal hei. Aaj tak aap Mrs. Javed ko darling kehte hein pyaar se. Aap dono ke pyaar ka raaz to hame bataayein"?

Mr. Javed - "bete.. kisi ko bataana nahin. Asal me, mei apni biwi ka naam bhool chuka hoon..iss liye use 'darling' keh ke pukaarta hoon".

 

[Dalit]

Either way, you're not longer "Pakistani" - you've changed through the introduction of another culture (Islamic, or Arabic culture, which *are* very linked). Or rather, you great-great-great...-grandfathers did. Or were forced to, depending on who's history book you read.

Are you even serious? Who said you cannot be a Pakistani and a Muslim at the same time? What kind of a dumb logic is that? Let me guess, we would still be Pakistanis if we all became Christians and read the bible, right? That wouldn't be counted as an introduction of another cultural/religious invasion, right?

Don't lecture us on who we are or who we ought to be. Pakistanis know darn well who they are and what their culture is. No, we aren't Arabs, but we do share cultural and religious ti w with our peers. Just like your Western civilization shares commonality with the Judaic faith and culture. We are Pakistanis. And yes, you can have any faith and still be a Pakistani.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Are you even serious? Who said you cannot be a Pakistani and a Muslim at the same time? What kind of a dumb logic is that? Let me guess, we would still be Pakistanis if we all became Christians and read the bible, right? That wouldn't be counted as an introduction of another cultural/religious invasion, right?

Don't lecture us on who we are or who we ought to be. Pakistanis know darn well who they are and what their culture is. No we aren't Arabs. We are Pakistanis. And yes, you can have any faith and still be a Pakistani.

Islamic, Pakistani and Arabic culture are pretty much intertwinned just as european and judeaic/Christian culture is.

Pakistanis cannot be blamed for being cautious, suspicious and even paranoid after all that has happened. Today we have maniac liberals like Pervez Hoodhboy who denounce Pakistan's nuclear capability and even the very existence of this country. That isn't a very good advertisement for liberals. People have every reason to question the behavior and intentions of certain liberal individuals. So called liberals in this country have shattered the trust of the common man. I don't even know where to begin. Mullahs and liberals are alike for me. Both accuse each other of wrongdoing, yet both are responsible for causing unprecedented damage to Pakistan. This is the truth in all fairness.

The Europeans on the contrary do expect and demand one set of culture which is theirs. When immigrants go to their respective countries they expect them to speak their language and integrate according tot their norms and customs. There is nothing wrong when Pakistanis demand the same. We have our unique set of norms and customs and we are proud of them. We don't require to import foreign and alien norms and customs. We don't require Mullahism and liberalism. We only require Pakistaniat. The common Pakistani is sick and tired of the quarreling between liberals and conservatives.

The title of this thread is an outrage in itself which suggests that Pakistanis ought to evolve with Western culture. Like as if that it is a norm for every individual country on this planet. It reeks with self disbelief and identity crisis.

Without being too offensive and getting myself into trouble, unfortunately a lot of Pakistani liberals want Pakistan and Pakistanis to completely abandon Islam and worship the west. They want to please the western world and not Allah swt.

 

[Dalit]

Islamic, Pakistani and Arabic culture are pretty much intertwinned just as european and judeaic/Christian culture is.



Without being too offensive and getting myself into trouble, unfortunately a lot of Pakistani liberals want Pakistan and Pakistanis to completely abandon Islam and worship the west. They want to please the western world and not Allah swt.

No doubt. Middle Eastern, Islamic and Pakistani cultures are intertwined. History proves this. Our proximity with many Middle Eastern regions proves this. It is the same principle as with Western and Judeo-Christian culture.

My beef with the liberal mindset starts the moment they lift a finger towards Mullahs. They are actually in the same boat. I'm not a fan of Mullahs who opposed the creation of Pakistan, but Mullahs didn't rule over Pakistan. Political elite and military leaders who usually identify themselves as liberals have ruled over Pakistan. Feel free to be a liberal, but don't lecture us moderates that we ought to be Mullahs or liberals. No, we are moderate Pakistanis and we perfectly well know what our culture is and what our traditions are.

 

[pak-marine]

Emotional my rear. Who is spewing garbage here? Calling 200 million folks liquor suckers and what not. You do that on the basis of viewing people on streets and watching the media... Keep your gross generalization to yourself. How do you expect to be taken seriously?

What the hell? What does my political preference have anything to do with my opinion regarding liberalism? You are so out of touch to even know that many liberals actually are part of PTI. Get your facts right dude and stop generalizing for goodness sake.
.

as i said last post was the last effort on this topic.. about the political preference question there is a certain kind was just curious !

 

[Vapnope]

You were questioning other people's reason to celebrate it. A liberal would not do that because he/she understands that everyone has his/her own way of living of life and we should let them do what they want to.

Are you mistaking me for someone else? When did i objected to anyone celebrating or not?