Pakistani tribal chiefs threaten to join Taliban

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistani tribal chiefs threaten to join Taliban​

· US warned of uprising if armed incursions continue
· New counter-terror policy backfires on Washington

A controversial new US tactic to mount counter-terrorist operations inside Pakistan has met with fresh hostility, it emerged yesterday, as Pakistani tribesmen representing half a million people vowed to switch sides and join the Taliban if Washington does not stop cross-border attacks by its forces from Afghanistan.

Reacting to American missile attacks in north Waziristan last week, which followed an unprecedented cross-border ground assault earlier this month, tribal chiefs from the area called an emergency meeting on Saturday.

"If America doesn't stop attacks in tribal areas, we will prepare a lashkar [army] to attack US forces in Afghanistan," tribal chief Malik Nasrullah announced in Miran Shah, north Waziristan's largest city. "We will also seek support from the tribal elders in Afghanistan to fight jointly against America."

The development threatens to widen the conflict, with previously moderate people from Pakistan's tribal border region with Afghanistan in danger of joining Taliban militants based in the area. They have reacted furiously to intensified American missile attacks on targets in the tribal territory in recent weeks.

The issue is likely to feature in talks between Gordon Brown and Pakistan's new president, Asif Ali Zardari, this week. Zardari, who is on a private visit to Britain, is due to meet Brown tomorrow. The prime minister is likely to press for greater Pakistani action against militants in the tribal area and may go along with US calls to integrate the tribal territory into the conflict in Afghanistan as one theatre of war, an idea Pakistan will fiercely resist.

Zardari and Pakistan's prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, said in a joint statement at the weekend: "The sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country should be respected at all cost." During the past month, there have been seven US missile strikes in the tribal area, about the same number as in the whole of last year. A US ground assault in south Waziristan provoked a sharp rebuke from the Pakistan army.

Washington believes that Taliban and al-Qaida militants fighting the western coalition in Afghanistan are using Pakistan's tribal area as a safe haven.

But Ayaz Wazir, a retired Pakistani diplomat who is a tribal chief from south Waziristan, warned: "If the Americans are coming to sort it out with force, they would create more enemies. The Americans might have supersonic jets and we might have to fight with stones in our hands, but we will stand up."

Up to now, only a tiny minority of the tribesmen have joined the Pakistani or Afghan Taliban movements, but incursions by the US could ignite the area.

The heightened US activity comes just as some Pakistani tribes have risen against the Taliban in the border areas of Dir and Bajaur. But hatred of America would far surpass any dislike for Islamic extremists.

Afghanistan: Pakistani tribal chiefs threaten to join Taliban | World news | The Guardian

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Did the consequences of recent US action really have to be spelled out for the analysts in the US defense establishment and the White House? Again, the hubris of those who continue to defend the complete ignorance of cultural and religious sentiment on the ground when going into Iraq is astounding.

An the same bull headed refusal to allow for consequences that would be worse than the status quo pervades in the US's approach to Pakistan.

Perhaps this comes from the demographics of the US military overwhelmingly favoring a mindset that believes, "see bad guy (definition of bad guy entirely upto the rudimentary analytical capabilities of the aggressor - a certain blues something character from elsewhere comes to mind - bad guy anyone ranging from an 'unpatriotic' individual to a legitimate AQ target), kick bad guys teeth through his head.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan: Now or Never?
Perspectives on Pakistan​

Posted by: Myra MacDonald
Tags: Pakistan: Now or Never, Afghanistan, al Qaeda, Pakistan, Taliban, United States, war

Masked pro-Taliban Pakistani militantsThere has been much hesitation in the world’s media about how to label U.S. military action inside Pakistan’s borders, including a reported ground raid and a series of missile strikes. Do you call it an “invasion”? Or use the more innocuous-sounding “intervention”? In an editorial, the Washington Post gives it a name which is rather striking in its directness. It calls it quite simply, The War in Pakistan.

President George W. Bush’s reported decision in July to step up attacks by U.S. forces in Pakistan’s tribal areas, the newspaper says, was both necessary and long overdue. It acknowledges there is a risk the strikes might prompt a breach between the U.S. and Pakistani armies, or destabilize the new civilian government in Pakistan. But, it says, ”no risk to Pakistan’s political system or its U.S. relations is greater than that of a second 9/11 staged from the tribal territories. U.S. missile and commando attacks must be backed by the best intelligence and must minimize civilian casualties. But they must continue.”

Others are lining up to condemn the new U.S. strategy in Pakistan.

Protesting against U.S. strikes“The Americans are probably right in claiming that Al-Qaeda and the Taleban have regrouped and using bases in Pakistan to launch cross-border raids into Afghanistan,” says Saudi-based Arab News. “They are certainly right in thinking that there will be no peace in Afghanistan while that remains the case. But they have to let the Pakistanis deal with this. If they continue the raids, they risk not merely losing what dwindling support they have in Pakistan but, far worse, alienating the country so thoroughly than no government even vaguely sympathetic to the US and the West can survive there.”

Pakistan’s Daily Times takes this argument further by suggesting that if public opinion turns even more against the United States, “the country will become more vulnerable to Al Qaeda and we will face unpredictable odds. According to nuclear theory, Pakistan is a nuclear power and cannot be attacked. If the US attacks Pakistani territory, battles with the Pakistan army, stops military assistance to Pakistan, and thus ends up making Al Qaeda supreme in Pakistan, the nuclear theory might then apply to Al Qaeda.”

In the Huffington Post, Shuja Nawaz writes that “the next time the US physically invades Pakistani territory to take out suspected militants, it may meet the Pakistan army head on. Or it may face a complete cut-off of war supplies and fuel in Afghanistan via Pakistan. With only two weeks supply of fuel available to its forces inside Afghanistan and no alternative route currently available, the war in Afghanistan may come to a screeching halt.”

Nawaz adds that both Pakistan and the United States need to rethink their actions. ”Otherwise, the US will not only lose an ally in Pakistan but ignite a conflagration inside that huge and nuclear-armed country that will make the war in Afghanistan seem like a Sunday hike in the Hindu Kush.”

Scary stuff then, with lots of massive risks being talked about on both sides of the argument, from another 9/11 to al Qaeda taking charge of Pakistan.

So here is a completely different view from Juan Cole in Informed Comment. “The original al Qaeda is defeated,” he says. Do read his post before leaping to judgment on this assertion, as he makes some interesting points, including arguing that the Taliban are driven more by Pashtun nationalism than by a desire to spread terrorism around the world.

“Although the US is worried about the Arab volunteers who take refuge among the resurgent Taliban, they are a tiny element and cannot easily launch international terrorist operations from FATA (Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas),” he writes. Based on an analysis of al Qaeda’s capabilities around the world, including in Iraq, he concludes; “For now, our war is over. Time to come home, and train and fund locals to do the clean-up work.”

Just suppose for a minute that his argument were to turn out to be correct. Then is the United States opening up a third front after Iraq and Afghanistan, but this time on the territory of a nuclear-armed country, for the wrong reasons?

Pakistan: Now or Never? Blog Archive Facing up to “the war in Pakistan” | Blogs | Reuters.com
--------------------------------

The link to Juan Coles analysis mentioned in the article is:

Informed Comment: On the Seventh Anniversary of September 11: Time to Declare the original al-Qaeda Defeated

 

[muse]

arguing that the Taliban are driven more by Pashtun nationalism than by a desire to spread terrorism around the world.

“

Although the US is worried about the Arab volunteers who take refuge among the resurgent Taliban, they are a tiny element and cannot easily launch international terrorist operations from FATA (Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas),” he writes. Based on an analysis of al Qaeda’s capabilities around the world, including in Iraq, he concludes; “For now, our war is over. Time to come home, and train and fund locals to do the clean-up work.”

Two seperate things - Taliban and AQ

With regard to AQ, I am persuaded that they have, yet again, successfully goaded the U.S into a trap -- If the U.S. had an ally in the war it was Pakistan - first U.S. double dealing and financing destabilized and brought the government of Pervaiz Musharraf, now having taken the AQ bait, the U.S. may well be on a self fullfilling prophesy.

For those who are interested - please search and find "management of barbarism" - you will see in their own words what the plan of the AQ to trap the U.S.

 

[Omar1984]

The Pakistani government and Pakistani army should always take sides with Pakhtoon tribal chiefs, if they dont theres going to be major consequences. In times like these all Pakistanis should be united....if the Pakistani governmet doesn't take sides of tribal chiefs there might be a civil war and that might break Pakistan, the exact thing our enemies want. Being united is the most important thing here..protect your own people not Americans who are sleeping on a mountain of dollars in USA. Most Americans dont even know theyre in a war and our people are suffering because of America's war. We cant be slaves of America anymore, our people and our country comes first.
For the sake of saving Pakistan, unite with the tribal chiefs in FATA.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

“

Two seperate things - Taliban and AQ

Indeed - the tendency to just lump all those fighting the US in Afghanistan into a general 'bad guy terrorist' category is not useful at all.

As Cole points out, the bulk of the Taliban fighting in Afghanistan is rooted in nationalism, not pan-Islamism, though some groups might subscribe to both or the latter.

But again, there is no recognition it seems in the US that she represents an 'occupation force', and that the demands placed by the US, of surrender, would never resonate beyond being considered an insult. It seems that the mental vice of outrage at 911 and the 'medieval culture' of the Taliban just block out any critical outside the box thinking.

Understand that when the Pakistani military is criticized by ordinary tribesmen and the Taliban, it is in the context of doing "America's bidding in the WoT". Across Pakistan, the refrain from those opposed to the WoT is 'killing our own people for American dollars at the behest of America". This part of the dynamic is being willfully ignored by the US - Afghanistan and FATA are not Iraq, and the underlying causes of the insurgency in Afghanistan and FATA are not those of Iraq.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

An editorial from The News - and it shoudl be noted that the editorials in this paper have of late been strikingly anti-Taliban and completely supportive of no more peace deals and a decisive campaign, military and development based, to eradicate extremism.

These are the kinds of people who will be lost to the games the US is playing in trying to win the war on a McDonalds drive-through timetable.

This isn't just about the US violating Pakistan's sovereignty, it is about the US singlehandedly destroying Pakistan's ability to fight this WoT.

Enough, Uncle Sam​

Friday, September 12, 2008
It is now seven years since the Al Qaeda attacks on America that in the most literal of senses changed the world forever. Pakistan is at the forefront, like it or not, of the 'War on Terror' that was triggered by 9/11 and its armed forces have suffered considerable losses in the fighting of it. General Kayani, COAS and very much a 'no-nonsense' soldier has made a robust statement about the RPV (Remotely Piloted Vehicle) attacks - "There is no question of any agreement or understanding with the coalition forces whereby they are allowed to conduct operations on our side of the border" -- despite which neither we nor he expects any decrease in their frequency - and the Buzzers have been busy again.

American RPV's daily loiter over our border with Afghanistan and often wander deep into Pakistani airspace and are deadly; with many of them armed with the Hellfire missile. Hellfire has visited Waziristan again, killing at least seventeen and injuring an additional nineteen. Seven were Taliban and the rest -- mere collateral damage. Ritual protestations follow, themselves followed by the response of assorted American spokespersons and diplomats that 'Pakistan is a sovereign nation and we respect that' -- which is, of course, complete balderdash. It is as if the constant repetition of the 'sovereignty' mantra will somehow gloss over the fact that Pakistan is only sovereign inasmuch as America wishes or allows it to be; and if America chooses to violate our airspace, blow women and children to smithereens, land Special Forces units to kill a few more women and children before hopping back over the border -- then so be it. The war on terror knows no borders as far as America is concerned, and it will fight that war wherever it wishes and by whatever means it chooses. If that means regularly making small-scale invasions of another sovereign country and killing a few of its citizens…then so be it. But there are unseen consequences…

There is an escalating sense of furious impotence among the ordinary people of Pakistan. Many -- perhaps most -- of them are strongly opposed to the spread of Talibanisation and extremist influence across the country; people who may be described as 'moderates'. Many of them have no sympathy for the mullahs and their burning of girls' schools and their medieval mindset. But if you bomb a moderate sensibility often enough it has a tendency to lose its sense of objectivity and to feel driven in the direction of extremism. If America bombs moderate sensibilities often enough you may find that its actions are the best recruiting sergeant that the extremists ever had -- and the extremists will be quietly delighted at the civilian deaths as they know that more feet will turn to the path that leads to their door.

There seems little that we can do to stop the Buzzers killing non-combatants; and by the same token it is difficult to construct a rhetoric that would dissuade those new recruits from joining the extremist camp. America is daily deepening the well of resentment against itself that no amount of aid input or pious diplomatic platitudes will ever fill; and Uncle Sam should not be surprised if his interests and assets within Pakistan become the target of extremists -- because at least some of those extremists will be the product of his own actions, his very own recruits. General Kayani's men will have to fight these new recruits as well, and fighting one's own people never sits easily in the mind of any fighting force. Be careful what you bomb Uncle Sam, be very careful.

Enough, Uncle Sam

 

[MOSABJA]

Today's news say that after the patrol of PAF and assurance that Pak army will protect FATA these same tribal chiefs have declared 100 % co operation with Pakistan army.

Moreover today's news say that these tribal chiefs have got some information that Militants commanded by afghan national army are entering into tribal areas and today they have declared formation of Lashkar to counter such elements.

 

[Spring Onion]

a tribal elder just said to me yesterday. let the US ground commandos come in and you will see the unity and be sure US will face never ending WoT."


What pitty these stupid white men always bring misiries to the common Americans.

 

[Omar1984]

Yes all Pakistanis should be with our brothers in FATA...no Pakistani should ever take the side of Americans over their own brothers.

Our people come first not american EDITED.

 

[EagleEyes]

Omar please kindly stop abusing any race or nationality.

 

[Omar1984]

Sorry its just that Americans make me really angry with what theyre doing today in the world and to our own people.

 

[MOSABJA]

today's news say that these tribal chiefs have got some information that Militants commanded by afghan national army are entering into tribal areas and today they have declared formation of Lashkar to counter such elements.
Read headline "N aur S Wazirstan mein PAF ki nigrani shuroo"

Jang Group Online

Moreover Geo's reporter has made some Serious remarks about Mohmand agency's commander Khalid Umar .

FROM THE NEWS.

During a long journey from Kohat to Miramshah, this scribe noticed that many areas in the south of the NWFP as well as in the tribal belt are no more under the full control of the government. These areas are managed by different militant groups, who have no central command structure. The security forces control only some major roads but have very little control over the villages or small towns in the area.

Meanwhile, a large number of local youngsters are getting frustrated and are joining different militant groups to continue their Jihad. There are three major militant groups in North Waziristan who often refuse to accept the authority of each other.

Miramshah is controlled by Utmanzai Wazir militants while the Mir Ali area is controlled by Dawar militants. Some Uzbek militants are living in the forests of Shawal area but US planes have never targeted them. Local militants accept Baitullah Mehsud as their Ameer, but now they are not in touch with him on a regular basis and make their own policies and decisions.

This scribe recorded many interviews in the Dande Darpakhel area on camera with the permission of the local Taliban. A militant group stopped and detained this scribe for many hours near Bannu and snatched the camera on our way back to Bannu. When I asked them to speak to the Taliban leaders in Miramshah, they said that they had no links with them.

These militants said that the Miramshah Taliban were controlled by Qari Gul Bahadur, but they were loyal to Commander Umar Khalid alias Abdul Wali, who runs a big training camp in Mohmand Agency.

They claimed that Qari Gul Bahadar was pro-Pakistan but they were no hypocrites. When I asked them why the US planes are not targeting Umar Khalid in Mohmand, they just laughed and cautioned that I should not dare come to Bannu again because they will soon “liberate” the area.

It is learnt that Umar Khalid is a new commander, who is hiring only those boys in Fata whose families suffered during the recent operations.

 

[MOSABJA]

makes it clear.Gul Bahadur and Mullah Nazir have formed a new taliban block .
Recent missile strikes have targeted them specially.
While areas controlled by TTP and Mohmand specially hasnt been targeted.

I think this makes it very clear who is catering US interests and why these Tahrik e kaffiran e Pakistan havent been targeted by US.

1)I think its now time to support and defend sincere taliban like Gul bahadur.

2)Time to negotiate with Afghan taliban.

3)Time to raise Tribal Lashkars and ask the tribes to beat their a$$es .Tribes have already announced that they are seriously thinking to call a Grand jirga on the issue of FATA and intervention of Afghan National army and the double agents working under the garb of taliban.

 

[Omar1984]

Pakistanis must work together to get all these foreign elements out of Pakistan. Get rid of the Uzbeks, Chechyns, Arabs, and all the other U.S. agents from Pakistan.

We know our Pakistani people are innocent and dont want to harm our country, but there's a lot of jealous foreigners in these areas who are causing the problem. The Pakistani army should target these foreigners and get rid of them once and for all.

No more Uzbeks, Chechyns, and other foreigners in FATA please. Get rid of them once and for all.

 

[muse]

1)I think its now time to support and defend sincere taliban like Gul bahadur.

2)Time to negotiate with Afghan taliban.

3)Time to raise Tribal Lashkars and ask the tribes to beat their a$

NEGATIVE, THAT"s NEGATIVE!! Pakistan need to get out of the talib business and these pashtun warlord business -- The use of arms and coersion is the EXCLUSIVE reserve of the Pakistani and it's State organs, such as police and armed forces.

This business of keeping the tribals, who are poor and an anachronism, must end. Tribals need to be full Pakistanis such that there are no tribals anymore, just Pakistanis and it is the Pakistani police and if necessary, the Pakistani armed forces that will maintain law and order.

If we support one group over the other, as soon as the group we supported is successful, they will turn on us -- that's just the tribal mentality, there never has been a tribal which we supported that didn't bite the hand that fed him.

Let the army handled it, they ALL need to be disarmed and required to behave in a civilized manner in accordance to the laws of Pakistan, not some tribal code.