Pakistani Nationalism - contradictions?

[Indus Pakistan]

Okay people. Have a look at this map below. It shows the 50 odd Muslim majority countries in the world. That is about quarter of the globe and over 1.8 billion Muslims.There are huge number of Muslim minorities in most countries of the world but for simplicity let us just stick with the Muslim majority countries which number about fifty.

As you can see the 50 Muslim majority countries are coloured green and cover almost every continent and almost all races of man. Pakistan is just one of them. Yes Pakistan is just one of 50.

If Pakistan nationalism is primarily based around Islam can anybody explain to me it differantiates from 50 other countries? How can one state represent Muslims when they number 1.8 billion and are spread in 50 countries?

Can people see the contradiction in the yellow patch [Pakistan] trying to be the contractor for all 50 Muslim countries? And trying to define it's nationalism around something that is spread in 50 countries? How does that work? Can the tiny yellow patch own a identity as it's own that actually belongs to 50 green patches?

In short how can a identity owned by 50 be claimed exclusively by one?

@OsmanAli98 @Nilgiri @MultaniGuy etc

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The problem is this one country trying to be 50 throws all sort of contradictions and conundrum that can't easily be solved. How do you run a one state but then hang a identity of 50 on your shoulders? It's like having one person but walks around carrying the minds of 50 people?

A good example of this conundrum is Uighur Muslims. If Pakistan is all about Muslims then surely it ought to be taking action against China instead of cozying up as 'Iron brother'. And in Islam thee is only one brotherhood and that is the Islamic Ummah. There is only Dar al Islam. Dar al Harb. There is only one definition or category of Muslims. That is 'Muslims'.

So how does one carry the weight of 50?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/for-china-islam-is-a-mental-illness-that-needs-to-be-cured.589175/

 

[The Accountant]

Okay people. Have a look at this map below. It shows the 50 odd Muslim majority countries in the world. That is about quarter of the globe and over 1.8 billion Muslims.There are huge number of Muslim minorities in most countries of the world but for simplicity let us just stick with the Muslim majority countries which number about fifty.

As you can see the 50 Muslim majority countries are coloured green and cover almost every continent and almost all races of man. Pakistan is just one of them. Yes Pakistan is just one of 50.

If Pakistan nationalism is primarily based around Islam can anybody explain to me it differantiates from 50 other countries? How can one state represent Muslims when they number 1.8 billion and are spread in 50 countries?

Can people see the contradiction in the yellow patch [Pakistan] trying to be the contractor for all 50 Muslim countries? And trying to define it's nationalism around something that is spread in 50 countries? How does that work? Can the tiny yellow patch own a identity as it's own that actually belongs to 50 green patches?

In short how can a identity owned by 50 be claimed exclusively by one?

@OsmanAli98 @Nilgiri @MultaniGuy etc

Can you please define the race of Pakistani people ?

Can you please also define the basis of formation of other muslim countries ? Are they based on religion or race ?

If you want Pakistan to be on the basis then in actual you are proposing to divide Pakistan in 5 to 8 pieces as there is no other explanation ...

In simple we are muslims of sub continent and our nationality is islam and it cant be based on race only

 

[Yankee-stani]

I say the closest Pakistan ever had of a Nationalist Government was under Ayub Khan reign as leader of the country besides that it was all govts used Islam or ethnic groups to their advantage however Pakistan is blessed to have Imran Khan who is a nationalist but faces a increasingly a pathetic public who dont know what it means to be a nation or people until thats solved Pakistan will make one step forward and one step backward

 

[Indus Pakistan]

In simple we are muslims of sub continent and our nationality is islam and it cant be based on race only

No. We emphatically are not. Please note the following -

• There are nearly as many Muslims in India as Pakistan.
  
• There are 170 million Muslims in Bangladesh
• Combined they make about 370 million Muslims in the sub-continent who are not 'Pakistan'.
• In Islam only Muslim brotherhood is recognized and not convenient geographic man made divisions like suub-continent.
  
• You can't invoke Islam and then go against Islamic basis of brotherhood by arresting it with secular boundaries

With regards to rest of your post it does not address the questions I posed in the OP. Please stick to terms of referance.

 

[halupridol]

Just make a sticky thread already,,,,"Pakistan ka matlab kya".
Preferably in seniors section,,,,reading the same arguments,same counter arguments,,,its just boring.
In The proposed sticky thread Mods,tts,staff shud mandatorily contribute n put forth there perspectives,,so as to acertain there stands once n for all,,,later add a poll too.

 

[Nilgiri]

@Desert Fox @Psychic @django @Game.Invade

Your inputs?

 

[Norwegian]

If Pakistan nationalism is primarily based around Islam can anybody explain to me it differantiates from 50 other countries? How can one state represent Muslims when they number 1.8 billion and are spread in 50 countries?

You are spot on bro. Nationalism is region bound, while religion is global. This in itself is contradictory. Not sure how founders of Pakistan lived with that obvious contradiction:

Pakistani nationalism refers to the political, cultural, linguistic, historical, [commonly] religious and geographical expression of patriotism by the people of Pakistan, of pride in the history, heritage and identity of Pakistan, and visions for its future.

Unlike the secular nationalism of most other countries, Pakistani nationalism and the religion of Islam have often not been mutually exclusive and religion is often a part of the Pakistani nationalist narrative.

From a political point of view and in the years leading up to the independence of Pakistan, the particular political and ideological foundations for the actions of the Muslim League can be called a Pakistani nationalist ideology. It is a singular combination of philosophical, nationalistic, cultural and religious elements.

Most of modern-day Pakistani nationalism is centered on the common Indo-Iranian identity and heritage of 99% of the population. Baloch, Kashmiris, Mohajirs, Punjabis, Pakhtuns and Sindhis and minorities are mainly of Indo-Iranian stock. It also refers to the consciousness and expression of religious influences that help mould the national consciousness. Nationalism describes the many underlying forces that moulded the Pakistan movement, and strongly continue to influence the politics of Pakistan.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Can you please define the race of Pakistani people ?

I will take this one. Please define race of Indian people? Please define race of American people? Please define race of Afghan people? You will find there is no such race for each country as they all are amalgams of ethnic groups.

 

[The Accountant]

No. We emphatically are not. Please note the following -

• There are nearly as many Muslims in India as Pakistan.
  
• There are 170 million Muslims in Bangladesh
• Combined they make about 370 million Muslims in the sub-continent who are not 'Pakistan'.
• In Islam only Muslim brotherhood is recognized and not convenient geographic man made divisions like suub-continent.
  
• You can't invoke Islam and then go against Islamic basis of brotherhood by arresting it with secular boundaries

With regards to rest of your post it does not address the questions I posed in the OP. Please stick to terms of referance.

Why stick to term of the reference when there is nonother definition of nationality of Pakistan ?

If you are challenging the existing basis then you should provide an alternate hypothesis otherwise the existing will remain valid ...

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You are spot on bro. Nationalism is region bound, while religion is global.

Bingo. Bullseye. Here is simple fact -

• Islam is universal and for all times
• Islam is global
• Nationalism is restricted to limited geography
• In Islamic theology you cannot create two categories of Muslims [sub-continent/others] as that discriminates against Muslim [others] in favour of Muslims [sub-continent] and this goes against the very essence of Islamic brotherhood.

 

[Yankee-stani]

No. We emphatically are not. Please note the following -

• There are nearly as many Muslims in India as Pakistan.
  
• There are 170 million Muslims in Bangladesh
• .

Funny all those Bengalis were killing Pakistanis in 1971 plus they tortured my uncle who was Pak Army Engineer for like a year and to be fair Bengalis in the west are always complaining about Pakistan and "muh geniocide" blah blah they rather side with the Hindu India than us

 

[Indus Pakistan]

If you are challenging the existing basis then you should provide an alternate hypothesis

Which logic have you been taught? I am challanging the existing basis as it has contradictions. To do so I don't have to provide alternatives. I am merely pointing out the theological [Islamic] flaw as it exists within the normative definition often cited for Pakistan.

 

[The Accountant]

I will take this one. Please define race of Indian people? Please define race of American people? Please define race of Afghan people? You will find there is no such race for each country as they all are amalgams of ethnic groups.

Such states are not sustainable ... india united first time in history by muslim kings and then as a result of anti british and anti Pakistan hate ... there is a reason india cannot solve Kashmir issue as it is a motivation to keep india a nation ... india is a nation united in its hated for muslims otherwise they are bound to dis integrate and were never a single nation in history ...

 

[Imad.Khan]

Can you please define the race of Pakistani people ?

Can you please also define the basis of formation of other muslim countries ? Are they based on religion or race ?

If you want Pakistan to be on the basis then in actual you are proposing to divide Pakistan in 5 to 8 pieces as there is no other explanation ...

In simple we are muslims of sub continent and our nationality is islam and it cant be based on race only

Every country has multiple races or ethnicity. The formation of other muslim countries is varied depending where they are, for example the current middle east & north africa is the result of the British and French carving out multiple countries after they took it over from the Ottomans after WW1. In some cases it was by conquest, like modern day Turkey. In case of Central Asia, its totally based on majority of the ethnicity.

Islam is not a nationality my friend, its a religion. Why can't we be just Pakistanis. There is nothing wrong with being a Muslim Pakistani or a Christian Pakistani etc etc.

Another thing is that Pakistan is not just part of the sub-continent. For example Historically KPK is part of Central Asia and Balochistan is part of Middle-east. Only areas east of the Indus river are considered part of Sub-continent.