Pakistani Muslims failed to repay - Indian Muslims are still paying with their lives for Partition : (late) Dr. Israr Ahmed

[MultaniGuy]

Israr may have been a good man, but that does not make Israr right all the time.
Israr's (may not have said it directly) mindset is the mindset of Mahdudi the founder of JI, who was vehemently opposed to the creation of Pakistan. These types of guys if you listen to them even today will say Pakistan should not have been created. They enjoy the luxury of the Pakistani state but within its ranks argue against its creation. In any other normal country, even the most liberal of states, if you argue against the national construct of a state that is called sedition and you will go to jail for a long time. Only in our country such people are given respect and made members of parliament, instead of rotting behind jail and having their property confiscated.
Till we as a nation are no longer scared of calling crooks, crooks, and traitors, traitors, we will continue to squalor in this misery. The fact that men like Acakzai and Pashteen and Dawar and M Fazlul-Rehman walk around with the swagger we are done for it. Pakistani state is getting weaker by the day and its institutions are falling apart.

In any state the institutions are the Parliament, the Courts, the Executive, the Military and the Press.
I give an F grade to 4 out of the 5. How long do you think non-working institutions can go on before it begins to unravel the country. Not long.

Dr. Israr Ahmed never said partition was wrong.

Muslims of South Asia agreed or wanted partition. So what's the problem.

And don't give me this old hackneyed Indian bullshit that Deobandi Muslims were against blah blah

The Muslim League got all the Muslim votes and it became clear the Hindus were being dishonest.

End of the story.

@waz Take care of this Indiot opening poster.

Dr. Israr Ahmed is taken out of context here.

 

[mudas777]

What he says about Pakistani Muslims has to be seen in a context when Pakistanis failed West Pakistan mostly because of political delusion. Secondly he pretty much explained the situation of Indian Muslims as well.



corrected accordingly

We are Kings without a crown in letting ourselves down. Lack of education, development, inept leaders and military rules have left us rudderless. If that was not bad enough for us Zardari and Nora rules have rocked over boat completely.

We are shackled by the external debts, living with the corruption from Karachi to Khyber, then explosion in the population is not helping. We have got a hostile neighbour 7 times bigger then us with Rafael's and funny clouds on top of it. But Alhumdu-lil-Allah we are still standing at the beech looking at our broken boat as someone else have to fix it. When someone will send us the bill for fixing the boat then we complain the petrol price have gone up.
Lets just watch the cricket our problems will go away tomorrow and Indian Muslims are not on our list of priorities at the mo.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

You told you this crap?

Are you a Pakistani? You are not, so don't talk on behalf of Pakistanis.

Dr. Israr Ahmed said he supported partition. Now shoo!

I have not seen the video, nor do I have to, but the Muslims wanted partition.

Many Deobandi Muslims did support partition. Stop spewing crap here with you incomplete knowledge


If you are a Muslim in India, then obviously you have no choice but to be nice as a minority.

but in Pakistan we get to call the shots.


Idiot, Dr. Israr Ahmed, said Pakistani Muslims failed, because we did not create an Islamic country.

In that sense he is right.

Dr. Israr Ahmed did not say partition was wrong.

Many Islamic scholars agreed with partition such as Chaudhry Niaz Ali Khan.

View attachment 812006

Are you sure you heard what he is saying.

His thesis is very simple. He is saying after Arabs we Pakistanis are the worst Muslims, because we did not build a Muslim system of governance. His second thesis is all the oppression on the Indian Muslims that too is because of us. He is bemoaning that we are indifferent to the plight of the Muslims in India. Dr Israr is perhaps unaware that the most loyal of loyal Indians are Indian Muslims, who take no quarter to talk against Pakistan. So strange for him to say we are indifferent to Indian Muslims, who repeated say we want nothing to do, nor any help, nor even a word of support from our co-religionists from Pakistan.
Also you say he never talks against Pakistan, but he glibly talks about the unimpeachable characters of the Ulema in those days who said "You make this Pakistan you'll split the nation of Muslims into 3 parts". None of us should be dumb to understand what he is trying to say. He talks about East Pakistan not surviving 25 years within the union. But he again is dishonest in not acknowledging that Bengali movement was not a religious movement, that in the end of the day the Bengali identify was stronger than the Muslim identity. Ulema's often side step this important factor when they talk about their idea of some great Muslim Ummah.
What these Ulema's fail to acknowledge is their own failure. They are meant to be the guardians of our moral construct. They are meant to show by example the pious and deeply self-reflective life of an Islamic Philosopher, and guide people around morality not piety. These are men that ought to bring our souls closer to Islam. Yet this class (and Israr maybe the better of the bunch - so i am not saying the next few things about Israr), drives around in Prados, consorts with women of low stature, teach our children the earth is flat, molest our children when they go to read the word of God, physically assault our children and force through rote memorization without translation (or a translation that is warped), without comparative analysis. This class of men will incite mobs, express that our soldiers who die in FATA are not Shaheed, will horde money and power and all the worldly luxuries, refuse to agree among themselves when a moon is sighted, call each other Kafirs, refuse to say prayers behind a Mufti of a different school, while telling the poor SOBs around them to give them "chanda" for their souls. They do all of this and yet they never call these sins among their own ranks and look outwards to drive people with a sense of guilt.
These men are charlatans. If I was an enemy of Muslims and Pakistan - this is the group I would stoke, support and fund.
As a Muslim my Iman is in my heart. My love for my creator is self actualized. I dont need these men of "character" to show me the path to my creator.

 

[MultaniGuy]

I have listened to the 9 minute video.

Interestingly the Indian member forgot the mention that Dr. Israr Ahmed mentions the demolition of Babri Masjid by Hindu extremists

Obviously partition (The creation of West Pakistan) was right so Muslims could live in peace according to their beliefs

 

[MultaniGuy]

Are you sure you heard what he is saying.

His thesis is very simple. He is saying after Arabs we Pakistanis are the worst Muslims, because we did not build a Muslim system of governance. His second thesis is all the oppression on the Indian Muslims that too is because of us. He is bemoaning that we are indifferent to the plight of the Muslims in India. Dr Israr is perhaps unaware that the most loyal of loyal Indians are Indian Muslims, who take no quarter to talk against Pakistan. So strange for him to say we are indifferent to Indian Muslims, who repeated say we want nothing to do, nor any help, nor even a word of support from our co-religionists from Pakistan.
Also you say he never talks against Pakistan, but he glibly talks about the unimpeachable characters of the Ulema in those days who said "You make this Pakistan you'll split the nation of Muslims into 3 parts". None of us should be dumb to understand what he is trying to say. He talks about East Pakistan not surviving 25 years within the union. But he again is dishonest in not acknowledging that Bengali movement was not a religious movement, that in the end of the day the Bengali identify was stronger than the Muslim identity. Ulema's often side step this important factor when they talk about their idea of some great Muslim Ummah.
What these Ulema's fail to acknowledge is their own failure. They are meant to be the guardians of our moral construct. They are meant to show by example the pious and deeply self-reflective life of an Islamic Philosopher, and guide people around morality not piety. These are men that ought to bring our souls closer to Islam. Yet this class (and Israr maybe the better of the bunch), drives around in Prados, consorts with women of low stature, teach our children the earth is flat, molest our children when they go to read the word of God, physically assault our children and force through rote memorization without translation (or a translation that is warped), without comparative analysis. This class of men will incite mobs, express that our soldiers who die in FATA are not Shaheed, will horde money and power and all the worldly luxuries, refuse to agree among themselves when a moon is sighted, call each other Kafirs, refuse to say prayers behind a Mufti of a different school, while telling the poor SOBs around them to give them "chanda" for their souls. They do all of this and yet they never call these sins among their own ranks and look outwards to drive people with a sense of guilt.
These men are charlatans. As a Muslim my Iman is in my heart. My love for my creator is self actualized. I dont need these men of "character" to show me the path to my creator.

I have listened to the video, He mentions Abul Kalam Azad, and Maulana Maadani.

About dividing the Muslim community into three parts in South Asia, that is true and something I cannot deny.
That was the opportunity cost for creating West Pakistan.
The Cabinet Mission Plan was being dishonest about the electorates for Muslims and not giving Muslim majority provinces autonomy.

You want to know why Pakistan was created, because we would not have a second chance to govern ourselves.

Who the hell teaches world is flat? Muslims preach the world is spherical.

These Indiots just want to shake the foundation of Pakistan. LOL. by trying to confuse the new generation.

Partition was no mistake. Many Muslim scholars agreed with partition in the end.

The only reason Maududi may not have been pro-partition is because they felt Islam would not be spread in India peacefully afterwards.

Are you sure you heard what he is saying.

His thesis is very simple. He is saying after Arabs we Pakistanis are the worst Muslims, because we did not build a Muslim system of governance. His second thesis is all the oppression on the Indian Muslims that too is because of us. He is bemoaning that we are indifferent to the plight of the Muslims in India. Dr Israr is perhaps unaware that the most loyal of loyal Indians are Indian Muslims, who take no quarter to talk against Pakistan. So strange for him to say we are indifferent to Indian Muslims, who repeated say we want nothing to do, nor any help, nor even a word of support from our co-religionists from Pakistan.
Also you say he never talks against Pakistan, but he glibly talks about the unimpeachable characters of the Ulema in those days who said "You make this Pakistan you'll split the nation of Muslims into 3 parts". None of us should be dumb to understand what he is trying to say. He talks about East Pakistan not surviving 25 years within the union. But he again is dishonest in not acknowledging that Bengali movement was not a religious movement, that in the end of the day the Bengali identify was stronger than the Muslim identity. Ulema's often side step this important factor when they talk about their idea of some great Muslim Ummah.
What these Ulema's fail to acknowledge is their own failure. They are meant to be the guardians of our moral construct. They are meant to show by example the pious and deeply self-reflective life of an Islamic Philosopher, and guide people around morality not piety. These are men that ought to bring our souls closer to Islam. Yet this class (and Israr maybe the better of the bunch - so i am not saying the next few things about Israr), drives around in Prados, consorts with women of low stature, teach our children the earth is flat, molest our children when they go to read the word of God, physically assault our children and force through rote memorization without translation (or a translation that is warped), without comparative analysis. This class of men will incite mobs, express that our soldiers who die in FATA are not Shaheed, will horde money and power and all the worldly luxuries, refuse to agree among themselves when a moon is sighted, call each other Kafirs, refuse to say prayers behind a Mufti of a different school, while telling the poor SOBs around them to give them "chanda" for their souls. They do all of this and yet they never call these sins among their own ranks and look outwards to drive people with a sense of guilt.
These men are charlatans. If I was an enemy of Muslims and Pakistan - this is the group I would stoke, support and fund.
As a Muslim my Iman is in my heart. My love for my creator is self actualized. I dont need these men of "character" to show me the path to my creator.

Why should we give a damn for Indian Muslims?

They are not our problem. Usually Dr. Israr Ahmed is right in many issues, but he is not right all the time. Human beings can make mistakes.

Dr. Israr Ahmed is no doubt one of the better Islamic scholars Pakistan has produced.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

I have listened to the video, He mentions Abul Kalam Azad, and Maulana Maadani.

About dividing the Muslim community into three parts in South Asia, that is true and something I cannot deny.
That was the opportunity cost for creating West Pakistan.
The Cabinet Mission Plan was being dishonest about the electorates for Muslims and not giving Muslim majority provinces autonomy.

You want to know why Pakistan was created, because we would not have a second chance to govern ourselves.

Who the hell teaches world is flat? Muslims preach the world is spherical.

These Indiots just want to shake the foundation of Pakistan. LOL. by trying to confuse the new generation.

Partition was no mistake. Many Muslim scholars agreed with partition in the end.

The only reason Maududi may not have been pro-partition is because they felt Islam would not be spread in India peacefully afterwards.


Why should we give a damn for Indian Muslims?

They are not our problem. Usually Dr. Israr Ahmed is right in many issues, but he is not right all the time. Human beings can make mistakes.

Dr. Israr Ahmed is no doubt one of the better Islamic scholars Pakistan has produced.

Can someone please put up some videos for my Multani brother - where our esteemed Mullahs are teaching the Earth is flat.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Can someone please put up some videos for my Multani brother - where our esteemed Mullahs are teaching the Earth is flat.

Originally I am from Islamabad/Rawalpindi.

The Qur'an says the Earth is spherical. Did you not know this? This has been discussed before.

Please bring me the videos, so we can use the Qur'an to educate those idiots.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Can someone please put up some videos for my Multani brother - where our esteemed Mullahs are teaching the Earth is flat.

Please show me, because Qur'an says the earth spherical.

Unless of course you are an ignorant Indian pretending to be a Pakistani.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Originally I am from Islamabad/Rawalpindi.

The Qur'an says the Earth is spherical. Did you not know this? This has been discussed before.

Please bring me the videos, so we can use the Qur'an to educate those idiots.

Yaar I have read the Quran. Finished it like a parrot by 9 years old. Did not learn a thing Allah bless my Maulvi - very nice man. Only when in college and afterwards did I begin to understand things. Also when I read the Quran I read with context, or timeline, events and history. Even then the complexity of the book is vast and every-time you read it you learn something new.

I agree the Quran does not say the Earth is flat in fact to the contrary it talks about Day and Night wrapping one around the other and some other indirect mentions that can be taken as it arguing the spherical nature of the earth. So I am not disagreeing with you. I am saying that Mullahs and some of these so called Ulema of deens in Pakistan are so departed from Islam and reality that they do teach our children that Earth is flat. Unfortunately they have access our our youth and hence poison their minds.

Please show me, because Qur'an says the earth spherical.

Unless of course you are an ignorant Indian pretending to be a Pakistani.

Here we go again. This so Pakistani thing. Don't like an argument starting throwing shit and getting everyone dirty. Argue the merit of the point.

And no I am not an Indian. But since you called me Ignorant I guess I am an ignorant Pakistani.

For my Multani Brother hope this will suffice - number 3 and 4 are a gem.

Saudi Arabian cleric uses cup to demonstrate theory that the Earth does not move

A video of Sheikh Bandar al-Khaibari's claims emerged on Galileo's birthday

www.independent.co.uk

Pakistani madrassa education: Sun, moon revolve around static earth » Sirf News

In this Pakistani madrassa, when students ask how day and night happen, the cleric replies, saying Islamic education must prevail over science

www.sirfnews.com

WATCH! This Pakistani cleric says Earth does not revolve around Sun; Twitter erupts with reactions

The cleric refuted the fact that the Earth revolves around Sun and asserted that the planet is stationary. Watch here.

news.abplive.com