Pakistan Turns Against the West

[Awesome]

I couldn't agree with you more. If any foreign country was conducting raids in my country, I would be pretty pi$$ed about it. And yes, letting off Raymond Davis - an American citizen for killing Pakistani citizens must have been deeply insulting.

Clearly your sovereignty has been compromised - but it is the job of your Government and your armed forces from stopping these drone attacks and laying down rules of engagement. What exactly is stopping you from showing the Americans, the CIA or whichever agency it is the middle finger and telling them to get lost. I think it is nothing but dependence on American aid. If there is something I missed here - please enlighten me.

It is no secret that whatever hammering we are giving the American administration on its vicious and vile acts of killing random people in NWA through drones, we are giving an equal amount of heat to our government for allowing it. Hopefully this will translate into a massive electoral defeat for them and bring forth the guys that do take out the drones.

how is there a comparison between some one who assisted in the identity of a known terrorist and Pollard?

The result is immaterial. If you help an organization such as the CIA, which has killed people in Pakistan to even illegally pluck flowers, the same sentence would have been given. The problem is - working with the CIA.

Anyway, the damage is done. The 'West' has an agenda to pressurize Pakistan. And Pakistan has given it one more tool to beat Pakistan with.

There was another issue, Americans were giving statements that Pakistan is illegally holding Afridi without pressing any charges.

Once charges were pressed the courts got involved. He came from the tribal areas, and hence tribal court was involved and they are pretty swift.

The thing is, its not really swift, this will now go to a sessions/district court, then to high court, then if need be to supreme court.

So what you are saying regarding negotiation is already on the cards. There was no escaping the pressure tactics, best to get your arguments out there at an early stage. Right now the Americans can't confront the issue without also acknowledging they have done the same over and over to punish spies who were also involved in good causes.

 

[iajj]

While, as Asim Aquil put it best, no country can tolerate a spy within, I think it was in Pakistan's best interests to let the trial 'stall'. Pakistan has made it only difficult for the remaining-few pro-Pakistani people like Senator J. Kerry to help Pakistan.
...
Anyway, the damage is done. The 'West' has an agenda to pressurize Pakistan. And Pakistan has given it one more tool to beat Pakistan with.

how is john kerry pro-pakistan? he is an american and is fiercely loyal to american interests and will not hesitate a second to screw pakistan to get what americans wanted to get out of afghanistan. again, how can an american be pro-pakistan? one could only wish many of the pakistanis-cum-coconut men like VC and you could swear and feel similar loyalty to pakistan.

but disgusting is the way all the coconut men join the anglo-american-jew chorus in pressuring pakistan to unconditionally yield to all the impossible US demands: you guys resort to innuendo and threats, implying unnamed methods of american retaliation and punishment for pakistani "misbehavior". i say: name it - what you guys got this time that can constitute yet "one more tool to beat Pakistan with", eh? NAME IT, you coconut! after the anglo-americans sent CIA agents to kill people on pakistani streets, after the anglo-americans converted pakistani medical doctors to spies, after the anglo-americans sought to humiliate pakistani officials on all international fora, after the anglo-americans already cut aid and refused to even reimburse pakistan's costs in their war, after the anglo-americans colluded with the indians to turn afghanistan against pakistan, after the anglo-americans flew drones into pakistani airspace and bombed pakistani soil and killed pakistani civilians - what other tools you guys got, eh? after all the crimes and real damages your anglo-american masters did to pakistan, there is no need to be evasive and deliberately unclear any more. name it, just NAME IT!

 

[Jihad]

This is excellent and well constructed propaganda based on recent events against our nation and people.

All of this could have been avoided had our government acted sooner and turned the tables so that it would look as if the Americans are the ones opposing Pakistan and its development.

Now we're portrayed as a black sheep again.
You see how helpless and useless the current lot in charge of Pakistan are? Elections SOON.....PLEASE.

 

[regular]

Sadanand Dhume: Pakistan Turns on the West - WSJ.com

So what is ure meaning here....everybody goes for his interest in this world cuz its freedom for everybody. U can't force anybody against his wishes thats the first rule of FREEDOM theWest shold remember that......

 

[batmannow]

This is excellent and well constructed propaganda based on recent events against our nation and people.

All of this could have been avoided had our government acted sooner and turned the tables so that it would look as if the Americans are the ones opposing Pakistan and its development.

Now we're portrayed as a black sheep again.
You see how helpless and useless the current lot in charge of Pakistan are? Elections SOON.....PLEASE.

My very dear, jihad!
Elections are not the solution , of this great game, 64 years had proven it?
We should move ahead , with a revolution , bassed on power to the people, by the people, for the people, with our cultural & religious values, intact.under the diciplinry commAnd of PA, crupt elite should be eliminated, & a new leadership , should be rizen from grass root, level with educational back ground.
With the body language of this govt, we are going to have , a massivly riggedd, very bloody & very expensive elections, with another group , looters & cheaters in power, for another recored breaking crupt govt,5 years!
We don't need, 300/rps / 1 usd, in the comming, next 5 years.
We need a huge, surgical strike on ourselves, by us , for , our near comming! Future.
We already have experimented, the WEST & its co-opreation , with our croupt rulling elite, what we wAnt more?
Blue helmets ? & a civil war?

 

[Jackdaws]

how is john kerry pro-pakistan? he is an american and is fiercely loyal to american interests and will not hesitate a second to screw pakistan to get what americans wanted to get out of afghanistan. again, how can an american be pro-pakistan? one could only wish many of the pakistanis-cum-coconut men like VC and you could swear and feel similar loyalty to pakistan.

but disgusting is the way all the coconut men join the anglo-american-jew chorus in pressuring pakistan to unconditionally yield to all the impossible US demands: you guys resort to innuendo and threats, implying unnamed methods of american retaliation and punishment for pakistani "misbehavior". i say: name it - what you guys got this time that can constitute yet "one more tool to beat Pakistan with", eh? NAME IT, you coconut! after the anglo-americans sent CIA agents to kill people on pakistani streets, after the anglo-americans converted pakistani medical doctors to spies, after the anglo-americans sought to humiliate pakistani officials on all international fora, after the anglo-americans already cut aid and refused to even reimburse pakistan's costs in their war, after the anglo-americans colluded with the indians to turn afghanistan against pakistan, after the anglo-americans flew drones into pakistani airspace and bombed pakistani soil and killed pakistani civilians - what other tools you guys got, eh? after all the crimes and real damages your anglo-american masters did to pakistan, there is no need to be evasive and deliberately unclear any more. name it, just NAME IT!

Anglo-American-Jew-Indian conspiracy to malign the fine name that Pakistan has earned itself over the years. All of us Indians - Anglos, Americans and Jews sit twirling our mustaches and figure out the next step to malign Pakistan - but it is amazing how these flawless beings in Pakistan still manage to maintain a spotless reputation and admired in the rest of the world for their straight-talking and unwavering commitment to stop and fight terror - wherever it be - Kashmir, USA, the Uighur lands or indeed even in their own country.

 

[Dr. NooB NinjA]

If they really wanted to save face they wouldn't have indulged in ineffective stands as a backlash to the Salala incident.They were on topic and only firm for a few days.The second Pakistan added irrelevant crap like the civilian nuclear deal on par with India as compensation to the incident,the United States understood that they were bluffing.Hence,now the relevant issue boils down to whether or nor President Obama should apologize over Salala(which is of no benefit even if it rendered).No prizes for guessing who the consequential losers are.

Are you serious??!!

 

[iajj]

Anglo-American-Jew-Indian conspiracy to malign the fine name that Pakistan has earned itself over the years. All of us Indians - Anglos, Americans and Jews sit twirling our mustaches and figure out the next step to malign Pakistan - but it is amazing how these flawless beings in Pakistan still manage to maintain a spotless reputation and admired in the rest of the world for their straight-talking and unwavering commitment to stop and fight terror - wherever it be - Kashmir, USA, the Uighur lands or indeed even in their own country.

pakistani military and security forces have had an immaculate record of fighting terrorism that harms pakistani people and those in pakistan's allied countries. people in these countries who benefit from their valiant actions and noble sacrifices are cognizant of these facts and are immensely grateful.

i also believe pakistan has acted on crimes that indians have discovered and solidly proven (like its many disputes with china, indians do have a habit of exaggerating and making unfounded claims, and pakistani security forces are too busy to entertain these fanciful indian imaginations, of course). but the rootlessness of turkics, jews and anglo-americans - and the globality of jewish and anglo-american interests - and the rootlessness of anglo-american military technologies and war techniques -- means they inevitably draw the equally rootless terrorism upon themselves, and no one can help them about that, and least of all, pakistan shouldn't be asked to bail these creatures out.

 

[regular]

Sadanand Dhume: Pakistan Turns on the West - WSJ.com

The reality is that Pakistan never turned against the West but instead West turned against Pakistan....

 

[Jihad]

My very dear, jihad!
Elections are not the solution , of this great game, 64 years had proven it?
We should move ahead , with a revolution , bassed on power to the people, by the people, for the people, with our cultural & religious values, intact.under the diciplinry commAnd of PA, crupt elite should be eliminated, & a new leadership , should be rizen from grass root, level with educational back ground.
With the body language of this govt, we are going to have , a massivly riggedd, very bloody & very expensive elections, with another group , looters & cheaters in power, for another recored breaking crupt govt,5 years!
We don't need, 300/rps / 1 usd, in the comming, next 5 years.
We need a huge, surgical strike on ourselves, by us , for , our near comming! Future.
We already have experimented, the WEST & its co-opreation , with our croupt rulling elite, what we wAnt more?
Blue helmets ? & a civil war?

That is EXACTLY what I have in mind too.
A massive revolution which would drastically change EVERYTHING in Pakistan.
I think a change in mindset of the people will take time..
Feudal landlords, corrupt politicians and the mafia...all these parasites are destroying our beautiful country.

With our potential and size we should be UP there on the growth charts heading towards GREATNESS.
But we're in a MESS....

I think and hope IK can bring that revolution without making any concessions towards anything or anyone.
Upholding all his promises.

 

[cyphercide]

My first post about the Shakil Afridi affair.
Unlike most Pakistanis here, I agree with you!
While, as Asim Aquil put it best, no country can tolerate a spy within, I think it was in Pakistan's best interests to let the trial 'stall'. Pakistan has made it only difficult for the remaining-few pro-Pakistani people like Senator J. Kerry to help Pakistan.

I think, in general, since the Raymond Davis episode, Pakistani foreign policy is of a measured resistance. Even when the OBL raid happened--the raid itself got rid of Pakistan's own enemy but the way American officials, especially the old idiot Panetta, decided to humiliate Pakistan was a grave provocation. But, alas, by condemning Dr. Shakil Afridi so fast, Pakistan has undone at least some of its hard-work--by losing negotiating space.

Yes, I know, $$ is not everything. Yes, I know, 'image', is not everything. But in a country of notoriously long judicial trials, the swiftness of the Dr. Afridi trial was simply asking for more condemnation.

Again, I repeat, Pakistan could not, should not have allowed a spy to go unpunished. If you do that next there could be others. Many others. Some for some 'good cause' and some for...

But 'stalling' was the best course of action.

Anyway, the damage is done. The 'West' has an agenda to pressurize Pakistan. And Pakistan has given it one more tool to beat Pakistan with.

One Pakistani who gets it is exponentially better than no Pakistani.Pragmatism is treated as a tell for weakness out here so a honest debate becomes difficult.

Are you serious??!!

Dead serious.There is a reason why your dealer has a 'cash only' policy.This is because once he falters from that stand,you would flood his crib with assorted junk to pawn the next time you look to score.

Intentions are paramount to any negotiation.Pakistan kicked off the proceedings in the aftermath of the Salala incident making all the right noises.Her sights were firmly set on the WOT and the military engagement with the United States.But as soon as the Pakistani delegation started to table non-relevant issues to the discussion on hand like the nuclear deal,it irreversibly ebbed away on the credibility of their ''hardened stance" they began out with.They might as well be sporting tees with 'Willing to settle for a lot less' printed on them. I wouldn't even want to discuss the feasibility of Washington approving such a deal in the first place.The net result? An apology from NATO is what they are currently squabbling over because Pakistan delibrately chose to dilute their stance.The more pressing matters like the drone program and CIA presence in Pakistan simply got swept away with the rhetoric.In the end,Pakistan has no other option than escalating tensions.

Of course,none of what I just posted is as simplistic in nature and barely skims the surface of the US-Pakistan tie-up.Yet when one considers that Pakistan happens to be the biggest benefactor as well as the biggest victim of US foreign policy,one expects a little objectivity and diligence from the Pakistani side as opposed to the Americans.Would that be too much to ask for?

 

[Jackdaws]

pakistani military and security forces have had an immaculate record of fighting terrorism that harms pakistani people and those in pakistan's allied countries. people in these countries who benefit from their valiant actions and noble sacrifices are cognizant of these facts and are immensely grateful.

i also believe pakistan has acted on crimes that indians have discovered and solidly proven (like its many disputes with china, indians do have a habit of exaggerating and making unfounded claims, and pakistani security forces are too busy to entertain these fanciful indian imaginations, of course). but the rootlessness of turkics, jews and anglo-americans - and the globality of jewish and anglo-american interests - and the rootlessness of anglo-american military technologies and war techniques -- means they inevitably draw the equally rootless terrorism upon themselves, and no one can help them about that, and least of all, pakistan shouldn't be asked to bail these creatures out.

pakistani military and security forces have had an immaculate record of fighting terrorism that harms pakistani people and those in pakistan's allied countries

1. That explains finding Osama in Abbottabad
2. That explains the need of America to bomb its own ally's sovereign territory. Have you ever in the history of warfare heard of an ally attacking its own ally? Vichy France comes to mind but that is about it.

The rest of your post is a rant - with a special mention of the rootlessness of terrorism. Of course terrorism has roots - to say otherwise means that there is no difference between a dacoit and a terrorist. What drives terrorism is always rooted in some land or some cause.

 

[khanz]

the writer is an Indian and a famous propaganda one at that why allow their nonsense to be posted on Pakistan geopolitical forum we don't take their stuff serious......

 

[iajj]

pakistani military and security forces have had an immaculate record of fighting terrorism that harms pakistani people and those in pakistan's allied countries

1. That explains finding Osama in Abbottabad
2. That explains the need of America to bomb its own ally's sovereign territory. Have you ever in the history of warfare heard of an ally attacking its own ally? Vichy France comes to mind but that is about it.

The rest of your post is a rant - with a special mention of the rootlessness of terrorism. Of course terrorism has roots - to say otherwise means that there is no difference between a dacoit and a terrorist. What drives terrorism is always rooted in some land or some cause.

if a people resorts to unconventional means to defend some well-defined territorial - and terrestrial - aspirations, then their goals are rational and justify whatever seemingly radical approaches they take.

if some people seek radical political objectives, then they are true terrorists even if they may adopt military methods that are "officially" sanctioned by whatever international laws they may have authored and forced other countries to accede to.

and often, unconventional warfare is a wronged people's only rational response to vicious attacks that stem from rootless ideologies (pan-turkicism, zionism, anglo-american universal hegemony) that nevertheless drape their military actions in seeming legality.

you completely misunderstood the rootlessness part and should learn to judge a person, a group and a nation not by their actions but by their intent: turkics, jews and anglo-americans must be deemed terrorists before they even move a finger.

 

[Jackdaws]

if a people resorts to unconventional means to defend some well-defined territorial - and terrestrial - aspirations, then their goals are rational and justify whatever seemingly radical approaches they take.

if some people seek radical political objectives, then they are true terrorists even if they may adopt military methods that are "officially" sanctioned by whatever international laws they may have authored and forced other countries to accede to.

and often, unconventional warfare is a wronged people's only rational response to vicious attacks that stem from rootless ideologies (pan-turkicism, zionism, anglo-american universal hegemony) that nevertheless drape their military actions in seeming legality.

you completely misunderstood the rootlessness part and should learn to judge a person, a group and a nation not by their actions but by their intent: turkics, jews and anglo-americans must be deemed terrorists before they even move a finger.

A Person, a group and a nation are always judged by actions, never by intent. This is because an intent is abstract and fluid - intentions change as opinions change. Actions are permanent and are tangible. Judging intentions is like clutching at straws.