Pakistan-Turkey 4 Milgem Ada Class Corvettes Contract - Construction started

[Tank131]

I just have one question regarding the claims... Which other countries/corvettes were involved in this process... What other corvettes were offered? We have been hearing about MILGEM cominf to Pakistan for over 10 years, but haven't heard about Pakistan honestly giving anyone else a look.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

This is a good speed for a ship of this size.

IMHO it is not. Western ships routinely do 30 knots. They have COGOG, CODAG, etc propulsion which generally give better response time at acceleration then CODAD.

I believe Milgem will have CODAG; MTU Diesel and GE LM Gas Turbine. But the speed remain slow.

In hunter killer composite group, the slowest vessel dictates the speed of the overall patrol group.

 

[dBSPL]

IMHO it is not. Western ships routinely do 30 knots. They have COGOG, CODAG, etc propulsion which generally give better response time at acceleration then CODAD.

I believe Milgem will have CODAG; MTU Diesel and GE LM Gas Turbine. But the speed remain slow.

In hunter killer composite group, the slowest vessel dictates the speed of the overall patrol group.

Specified speeds are the emergency speeds.

Milgem ADA corvet's continuous full speed is 26 kts and emergency speed is +30 kts.

Also for the light frigate filotilla groups, the cruising speed is around 14/18 kts. These ship groups are not emergency response or missile boats. They generally make field defenses , escorting and patrolling.

I will tell you what card they played son! Turkey is now a backdoor for western technology. Companies and countries not able to sell to Pakistan sell to Turkey so that it can be re-packaged as Aselsan etc. Secondly, the product comes with a Loan, so PN does not have to pay upfront. This is is the same formula by which Chinese were winning. Now other smart countries are figuring it out.

Turkey covered under hidden embargo in access to almost all critical subsystems. In the last 10 years, many companies, especially in Aselsan, spend billions of dollars on material technology, electronics, optronics, microchips and nano systems, this is the result.

The delay of Göktürk observance setalite program , the delay of the Anka project and many other main system programs were affected by this implicit embargo.

You can retrieve a whole system without access to subsystems, from west. Otherwise, there are other balances. Turkey has seen and experienced this situation.

Bad neighbor makes you own property. ( proverb )

 

[cabatli_53]

I will tell you what card they played son! Turkey is now a backdoor for western technology. Companies and countries not able to sell to Pakistan sell to Turkey so that it can be re-packaged as Aselsan etc. Secondly, the product comes with a Loan, so PN does not have to pay upfront. This is is the same formula by which Chinese were winning. Now other smart countries are figuring it out.

Which re-packaged Western system that is offered to costumers with a Turkish made stamp?

 

[syed_yusuf]

Which re-packaged Western system that is offered to costumers with a Turkish made stamp?

i am interested too

 

[Neptune]

IMHO it is not. Western ships routinely do 30 knots. They have COGOG, CODAG, etc propulsion which generally give better response time at acceleration then CODAD.

I believe Milgem will have CODAG; MTU Diesel and GE LM Gas Turbine. But the speed remain slow.

In hunter killer composite group, the slowest vessel dictates the speed of the overall patrol group.

I beg to differ. 30+ knots is for emergency use only. The maximum speed for Ada-class corvettes are 30 knots. But even in a case of rapid response the speed is relevantly less than 30. Example: When TCG Buyukada (F-512 Ada-class) performed patrol duties in Horn of Africa as part of a deployment it responded to several commercial distress calls and drills. Note that the AO is very close to Pakistani maritime jurisdiction. In addition the speed is the best you can get in both European and Chinese market for a corvette weighting around 1500-2500 tonnes.

I also would like to mention that the hunter-killer formation in navy is a post-WWII rhetoric that survived the Cold War. But its just that, not more than a threat library information. Today multi-level ASW formations consist of different tactics employed by respective navies of our nations, at least for Turkey and several others. And Ada-class fits right into these plannings not by its speed or main gun but by its sensors, countermeasures and interoperability within a network of warships

Sorry for typo and grammar mistakes.

 

[SQ8]

I will tell you what card they played son! Turkey is now a backdoor for western technology. Companies and countries not able to sell to Pakistan sell to Turkey so that it can be re-packaged as Aselsan etc. Secondly, the product comes with a Loan, so PN does not have to pay upfront. This is is the same formula by which Chinese were winning. Now other smart countries are figuring it out.

But but.. Aselsan is repackaged locally as well as well.. double repackage?

 

[-------]

Which re-packaged Western system that is offered to costumers with a Turkish made stamp?

He's been pulling this line for quite some time, his only evidence, he's seen it... so, don't expect much even if he responds to you..

 

[syed_yusuf]

But but.. Aselsan is repackaged locally as well as well.. double repackage?

makes it heavy

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

This is not that Hard to understand yes you are on spot but one more thing is that Turkish civilian Ship building is also very advanced and if you have some interest in Yacht you will know that and many hull designs fuel efficiencies and engine tech is coming to Turkish naval defence from there. There are a lot of things in play here.

https://iyc.com/turkey/

But but.. Aselsan is repackaged locally as well as well.. double repackage?

Yeah, that is a double irony, when a Tadiran radio goes around the world like that. Same happens in North American market.

 

[BHarwana]

Yeah, that is a double irony, when a Tadiran radio goes around the world like that. Same happens in North American market.

Sorry I don't understand what you mean here?

 

[Aamir Hussain]

"Hunter/Killer" groups might be cold war jargon but what does a patrol group do......ward off evil spirits?? They patrol and if enemy detected, hunt and of possible kill the enemy.

We can change the jargon but the tactics remain for most part the same.

As far as multi tiered groups and using their varied combat capabilities to support the patrol group..this tactics too date back to WWII era wham Tribal Class destroyer leaders were used to in a group with W and S class destroyers

 

[Armchair]

Which re-packaged Western system that is offered to costumers with a Turkish made stamp?

For instance the Millenium gun based Korkut
French radars
Altay based on South Korean design
Firtina
Among others.
A Saab vehicle as the Turkish national car project (maybe Pakistan or Bangladesh can also buy this off Turkey and have their own national car project too)

Turkey seems to be buying as much technology as it can from Europe. Which is a reasonable strategy, helps save time and money.

Question:
Was the Milgem Ada design consulted from a European company? (would like to know)

Just a thought - if you built a Milgem class ship using an aluminum hull and superstructure, you'd have a similarly sized ship at about 1000 tons. Of course, if it got hit it would sink much easier but, imagine how that could play out in terms of propulsion requirements and sea worthiness. If enough money is saved from propulsion, would it still be priced too high for going with an all aluminum ship?

Similarly, imagine a 500 ton all aluminum ship - that would in theory have the same capability as a 1000 ton conventional corvette.

 

[BHarwana]

IMHO it is not. Western ships routinely do 30 knots. They have COGOG, CODAG, etc propulsion which generally give better response time at acceleration then CODAD.

I believe Milgem will have CODAG; MTU Diesel and GE LM Gas Turbine. But the speed remain slow.

In hunter killer composite group, the slowest vessel dictates the speed of the overall patrol group.

But if you look at HMS Forth which UK inducted in April 2018 is also not faster than 24 knots. HMS Forth is 2000 ton

Even if you look at Indian corvette they are slower than Turkish corvette.

 

[mehmeTcc]

For instance the Millenium gun based Korkut

This is purely about the economies of scale. Turkey is more than capable to design such a product.

French radars

If it is Smart-S Mk2 you are talking about, the subsystems are almost 100% Turkish, and Aselsan actually exports its GaN transistors as a subcontractor. Besides that, Aselsan already started production of its own radar designs.

Altay based on South Korean design

Altay is not based on any South Korean design, it was designed by Turkish engineers with a similar project model being applied to TF-X and BAe Sytems.

A Saab vehicle as the Turkish national car project (maybe Pakistan or Bangladesh can also buy this off Turkey and have their own national car project too)

That was a fallacy and a mismanagement, Turkey is more than capable to produce a car of her own, including the transmission and the engine.

Question:
Was the Milgem Ada design consulted from a European company? (would like to know)

Milgem was designed by Central Research Command (Armerkom) which is a branch of Turkish Navy.