PAKISTAN TO SPEND $12 BILLION ON ARMS IN 2016-2024

[Arsalan]

I wouldn't mind if they go for a small number of Altay MBTs, but do so on the grounds of (1) giving the Army a heavy MBT and (2) accessing some of the technology for re-use on the al-Khalid series. Imagine taking the Altay's armour technology and subsystems and developing a new gun turret for a 1500hp-powered al-Khalid.

Since it was studied and there were some concerns i do not see that happening. Furthermore, if we can get that "accessing the technology" without having to buy tanks that are actually not suitable for us i think that will work better. I do believe that we can make that happen if we work on these lines. The best option, as far as i can think of will be a Type 99 style body with Altay turret and Armour along side some local ERA. Opto electronic sub systems from Turkey and some European supplier, an engine from Ukraine and an active protection system from Ukraine or Turkey. Now invest on fitting it all together and integrating the sub systems to give a mean machine that is tailor made for our requirements. The best part, as mentioned in the past, the benefits of this are much more then this great tank that you will get. Much much more of we work to exploit that potential.

 

[Quwa]

Since it was studied and there were some concerns i do not see that happening. Furthermore, if we can get that "accessing the technology" without having to buy tanks that are actually not suitable for us i think that will work better. I do believe that we can make that happen if we work on these lines. The best option, as far as i can think of will be a Type 99 style body with Altay turret and Armour along side some local ERA. Opto electronic sub systems from Turkey and some European supplier, an engine from Ukraine and an active protection system from Ukraine or Turkey. Now invest on fitting it all together and integrating the sub systems to give a mean machine that is tailor made for our requirements. The best part, as mentioned in the past, the benefits of this are much more then this great tank that you will get. Much much more of we work to exploit that potential.

Either way, develop a Khalid variant with a new turret and bigger engine, or make Haider into a long-term (post 2020/2025) play for a new common armour platform (for MBT and SPH at least).

 

[Arsalan]

Either way, develop a Khalid variant with a new turret and bigger engine, or make Haider into a long-term (post 2020/2025) play for a new common armour platform (for MBT and SPH at least).

Just change the sequence and replace that "or" with an "and".

Go for the route we discussed of selecting tank body, Armour/turret/ electronics and all other sub systems to make a new tank, make that Haider and keep the long term requirements in mind.
Now as i have mentioned in all the posts that this kind of approach will give us a lot more then that perfectly suitable tank. I was talking about the access to the sub systems. Use that technology to work on an Al-Khalid variant if required. Use it to upgrade and modify the existing fleet. This will be one "extra advantage" and there are others as well.

 

[Aali Shafi]

We should rather invest in the education, argiculture and creating quality human resource.

 

[Quwa]

Just change the sequence and replace that "or" with an "and".

Go for the route we discussed of selecting tank body, Armour/turret/ electronics and all other sub systems to make a new tank, make that Haider and keep the long term requirements in mind.
Now as i have mentioned in all the posts that this kind of approach will give us a lot more then that perfectly suitable tank. I was talking about the access to the sub systems. Use that technology to work on an Al-Khalid variant if required. Use it to upgrade and modify the existing fleet. This will be one "extra advantage" and there are others as well.

Indeed. The al-Khalid series can be used as a bridge to perfect HIT's understanding of integration (especially engine and transmission), designing a new turret, etc. That experience can add to the Haider on the drawing board, though I am unsure if it should be a clean-sheet hull or one derived from an existing platform such as the VT-4, Oplot or even MBT-2000. Is the added benefit over cost marginal? Or can one argue that a new hull is prudent, especially if one intends to utilize it for 30+ years?

FYI Poland and Ukraine will develop a 155mm howtizer based on the Oplot's hull. For discussion's sake, if the Army were to proceed with Haider, and in turn, select the Oplot M, would they need to do much work on the chassis and turret? I guess if there's substantial value in having an 'arrow' style turret like the ZTZ-99 or K2 Black Panther, but is it that much more beneficial?

http://www.armyrecognition.com/dece...witzer_based_on_t-84_oplot_tank_12912154.html

 

[Arsalan]

Indeed. The al-Khalid series can be used as a bridge to perfect HIT's understanding of integration (especially engine and transmission), designing a new turret, etc. That experience can add to the Haider on the drawing board, though I am unsure if it should be a clean-sheet hull or one derived from an existing platform such as the VT-4, Oplot or even MBT-2000. Is the added benefit over cost marginal? Or can one argue that a new hull is prudent, especially if one intends to utilize it for 30+ years?

I think it will be better to select an existing hull, select one that suites you best and i think Type 99 or VT-4 will be a good choice. We never go for reinventing the wheel and if simply all those suitable systems together can address our needs to perfection i do not see much RND being put into designing of the body/hull. Just select all those best suited items.

FYI Poland and Ukraine will develop a 155mm howtizer based on the Oplot's hull. For discussion's sake, if the Army were to proceed with Haider, and in turn, select the Oplot M, would they need to do much work on the chassis and turret? I guess if there's substantial value in having an 'arrow' style turret like the ZTZ-99 or K2 Black Panther, but is it that much more beneficial?

That is exactly what i mean when i say that going down this route will have benefits that will exceed that perfect tank that we will get. The know how on all those systems to upgrade and modify the existing fleet is one as discussed in the previous post. Other, also mentioned previously, is how we can use that new system to form the bases of our mechanized forces. It can become our very own armata. Platform commonality as i said. Use that for a howitzer, and APC (with a 1200hp engine may be) and IFV, all sorts of the mechanized forces in future can be based on this once platform. This is thinking beyond the immediate needs and will meet our demands for decades to come.

 

[Quwa]

I think it will be better to select an existing hull, select one that suites you best and i think Type 99 or VT-4 will be a good choice. We never go for reinventing the wheel and if simply all those suitable systems together can address our needs to perfection i do not see much RND being put into designing of the body/hull. Just select all those best suited items.


That is exactly what i mean when i say that going down this route will have benefits that will exceed that perfect tank that we will get. The know how on all those systems to upgrade and modify the existing fleet is one as discussed in the previous post. Other, also mentioned previously, is how we can use that new system to form the bases of our mechanized forces. It can become our very own armata. Platform commonality as i said. Use that for a howitzer, and APC (with a 1200hp engine may be) and IFV, all sorts of the mechanized forces in future can be based on this once platform. This is thinking beyond the immediate needs and will meet our demands for decades to come.

Would an APC derived from a tank chassis basically just be the chassis with standing room? It would be much lighter as well, so there is no need for a powerful engine, even 800-900hp would be sufficient to power it.

 

[Arsalan]

Would an APC derived from a tank chassis basically just be the chassis with standing room? It would be much lighter as well, so there is no need for a powerful engine, even 800-900hp would be sufficient to power it.

Surely!!
It can come to the decision of going for two engines or three. A 1500hp for tanks and a 1100-1200hp and 800hp. We can either chose both for howitzer and IFV and APC or select one. If we opt for one it will more likely be a 1000-1200hp engine.

Anyway sir, as we mentioned, these are just wishful thinking for now and i just hope and pray that someone in the concerned authorities is thinking on the same lines. Frankly, a project like this will be a huge thing for us and there wont be much more to do for quite some years to come, it will meet our needs for coming decades.

 

[Quwa]

Surely!!
It can come to the decision of going for two engines or three. A 1500hp for tanks and a 1100-1200hp and 800hp. We can either chose both for howitzer and IFV and APC or select one. If we opt for one it will more likely be a 1000-1200hp engine.

Anyway sir, as we mentioned, these are just wishful thinking for now and i just hope and pray that someone in the concerned authorities is thinking on the same lines. Frankly, a project like this will be a huge thing for us and there wont be much more to do for quite some years to come, it will meet our needs for coming decades.

It is wishful thinking, but if it is becoming a credible and increasingly pervasive practice in the real world, the Army will eventually be exposed to the idea in one shape or another. A good sign would be the Polish-Ukrainian Oplot howitzer come to fruition and strutted at IDEAS 2018 or 2020.

 

[Arsalan]

It is wishful thinking, but if it is becoming a credible and increasingly pervasive practice in the real world, the Army will eventually be exposed to the idea in one shape or another. A good sign would be the Polish-Ukrainian Oplot howitzer come to fruition and strutted at IDEAS 2018 or 2020.

Hmmm yeah you are right, the world is and perhaps we would also come to realize that.
Would love nothing more then such a venture. Will have immense long term prospects for our mechanized forces and hence the army as a whole. We can then concentrate on other departments as this one will be more or less covered for YEARS!

 

[dani958]

12 bilion not enaugh but its depend on your defence budget you cant spend all defence budget on purching
you can get biger defence budget