Pakistan to give access to Russia to warm Water

[Obambam]

This is the list of US military bases all over the world. Dont you think a war with any country in the world will already have US at an advantage because of these bases.
File:US military bases in the world.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course not. You have to look at how many troops and equipments they have at any given location as well as the geographical advantages. Say the bases in Afghanistan, are they enough to contain country such as China which has over 3 times America's total population? Getting supplies into the Afghan region will be a whole lot more hassle free for China than it is for America no? And all those bases only means one thing. They are paying for it.

The point is that their economy is started picking up. They have braced through these wars in the midst of a bitter recession. Their growth is seen now at 3 % in 2012 and 2.8% in 2013.

They are a developed nation and is still suffering from recession. They are also in decline. the 3% means nothing when you take into consideration the size of their debt. You also need to look at its economy as a whole. In what ways can they make money? Just selling technology and offering services?
Like I said earlier. The poor growth rate is grossly outweighed by the negativities of its economy. China has only picked up from 30 years ago, already they are predicting that we can catch up with them within our lifetime. That is not a good sign for a developed country which is supposedly the number economy in the world.

I just told you what recent wikileaks suggested. Two countries may hold a number of meetings to strengthen relations but that does not mean a country lower its guard especially against a communist country like China.

I've also told you that any country in the world has the rights to guard its country and its borders. The case of them having fighter planes in the south is no biggy as we are both allies and neighbours. Being Communist or not has nothing to do with its neighbours decision on defense, especially we are allies. Just as India is threatening Pakistan who happens to be a democratic country also. That is a flawed concept and a strawmans argument.
Personally I would not buy too much into wikileaks. It's not in any means 'credible' and it is hyped up by the media to fulfil specific purposes?

I see at the most US cutting down troops in Iraq and Afghanistan to subdue political or social sentiments. I beleive they will transition themselves from a military approach to a nation building one which will immensely help their economy. Dont forget Iraq and Afghanistan has huge potential in terms of economy and the US is fully in charge of them. They can easily turn it to a profit making venture.

I think you are way overestimating the capabilities of America there. Take Egypt as an example. They were formerly a stooge nation of America, look at what happened to them now? Israel is an ally of America are they not? what happened right now are not favourable to the Israelies. Profit making or not, those money will only benefit the fat cats even if it did happen. It will not reach the American public and it will not help its economy.

 

[Fireurimagination]

I believe improving Russian- Pakistan relations are a good thing for India, if Russia has some influence over Pakistan it can very well work in India's favor given the strategic relations India shares with Russia

 

[StormShadow]

Basically India and Russia are allies but their relationship took a bit of a dive recently over arms deals (India ditched the fighter plane contract in favour of French and Russian always increasing the price of the carrier - Vikramaditya).

Real allies are still going to be China - Pakistan. Russia only gotten involved because they want to stabilize the region and secure its future needs from Africa and the ME as well as expanding options of national interest..

Says who?
Giving MMRCA to EU means India ditched russia? Lol. India-Russia ties are very deep rooted and they just cannot be suffering by just a single deal. There are too many deals in the pipeline with Russia and you can lay to rest your claims of ditching screwing etc etc. Moreover, Russia sees India as an equal partner and the buyer seller relation has grown into a Joint venture production.
No country on this planet is parts away with it's most sensitive technology [Pak-Fa/FGFA, nuclear submarines etc etc] until unless it believes or trusts the country to the fullest. Even US didn't even sell F-22 to it's allies...forget ToT. By the way...as u said "Real allies are still going to be China - Pakistan" why isn't China not inviting Pakistan for a joint development of her 5th Gen plane? Dosent China fully believe Pak? If so, how can they be all weather allies?

 

[Obambam]

Says who?
Giving MMRCA to EU means India ditched russia? Lol. India-Russia ties are very deep rooted and they just cannot be suffering by just a single deal. There are too many deals in the pipeline with Russia and you can lay to rest your claims of ditching screwing etc etc. Moreover, Russia sees India as an equal partner and the buyer seller relation has grown into a Joint venture production.
No country on this planet is parts away with it's most sensitive technology [Pak-Fa/FGFA, nuclear submarines etc etc] until unless it believes or trusts the country to the fullest. Even US didn't even sell F-22 to it's allies...forget ToT. By the way...as u said "Real allies are still going to be China - Pakistan" why isn't China not inviting Pakistan for a joint development of her 5th Gen plane? Dosent China fully believe Pak? If so, how can they be all weather allies?

You seem to have this impression that politics never changes?

Yes the relationship is deep rooted, but what happens to the relationship depends on either sides actions.
Taking a bit of a dive is by no means non repairable. All I am saying is, when India ditched them in favour of others, they did the exact same by partnering with Pakistan - India's much hated neighbour.

As for 5th gen plane, I think you and I know well enough that Russians lack the funds to make it happen, hence they requested support. It is in fact the Russians who are building it. China doesn't have the same issue and we can survive and carry out projects without handouts. The fact that we allow for technological transfer when we sell Pakistan technology and that we collaborated with the JF-17 project says it all. We did exactly what your country and the Russians are doing.

 

[Paan Singh]

You seem to have this impression that politics never changes?

Yes the relationship is deep rooted, but what happens to the relationship depends on either sides actions.
Taking a bit of a dive is by no means non repairable. All I am saying is, when India ditched them in favour of others, they did the exact same by partnering with Pakistan - India's much hated neighbour.

As for 5th gen plane, I think you and I know well enough that Russians lack the funds to make it happen, hence they requested support. It is in fact the Russians who are building it. China doesn't have the same issue and we can survive and carry out projects without handouts. The fact that we allow for technological transfer when we sell Pakistan technology and that we collaborated with the JF-17 project says it all. We did exactly what your country and the Russians are doing.

i think ur on
sco pay roll.......

 

[StormShadow]

You seem to have this impression that politics never changes?

And you seem to have this impression that politics never change for Sino-Pak relations!!

Yes the relationship is deep rooted, but what happens to the relationship depends on either sides actions.
Taking a bit of a dive is by no means non repairable. All I am saying is, when India ditched them in favour of others, they did the exact same by partnering with Pakistan - India's much hated neighbour.

Lol...again same Rhetoric. Russia knew long back that mig-35 would not make it. India instead had compensated it by additional Su-30 orders and Upgradation of Mig-29.
Yes...your statement would be having value IF the US planes were selected.

As for 5th gen plane, I think you and I know well enough that Russians lack the funds to make it happen, hence they requested support. It is in fact the Russians who are building it. China doesn't have the same issue and we can survive and carry out projects without handouts. The fact that we allow for technological transfer when we sell Pakistan technology and that we collaborated with the JF-17 project says it all. We did exactly what your country and the Russians are doing.

Russia is not in a position to ask India for funds. Russia's economy is pretty decent. It's not just money that Russia chose to partner with India.

 

[Cheetah786]

"Garam Pani", that is what the Russians will get.

BTW, it was this very same "garam Pani" (Warm Water) issue which brought the the erstwhile USSR (including Russia) to Afghanistan.
Which made USA decide not to give it to them.
Which made Pakistan decide that the USSR must not be allowed to get it.
Which made the CIA and ISI cook up a plan to prevent it.
Which helped to create the Mujahideen and then Taliban.
Which made the Saudis to come on board to fund that plan.
Which brought Osama Bin Laden to Afghanistan to execute that plan.
Which started "Charlie Wilson's War".
Which led to the USSR withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Which led to the US withdrawal from the area.
Which led to creation of Al Qaida and the "Talibanisation" of Afghanistan.
Which led to 9/11.
Which led to the "WOT".
Which led to the return of USA to Afghanistan.
Which led to Osama Bin Laden running around all over the place inluding Somalia and Tora Bora.
Which led to US carpet bombing of Tora Bora.
Which led to Osama Bin Laden looking for a "country estate"
Which brought Osama Bin Laden to a "mansion" in Abbotabad.
Which in the meanwhile gave a chance all kinds of "unemployed and under-employed" terrorists a chance to go around bombing all over Pakistan and kill many innocent Pakistanis.
Which brought droves of CIA agents including "Raymond Davis" all around Pakistan.
Which led to some guys being killed in Lahore.
Which led to "Raymond Davis" being arrested and then released.
Which actually was the cover for the US plan to take out Osama Bin Laden.
Which brought the US Navy seals to Abottabad.
Which led to the elimination of Osama Bin Laden.
Which led to fish in the Arabian Sea having a hearty unforgettable meal.
Which was followed by Zardari's trip to Moscow.
Which led to Pakistan offering "Garam Pani" (Warm Water) access to the Russians.
Which Pakistan did not want to do in the first place.
Which led to so many things happening.
Which makes one wonder??

ALL THIS FOR SOME "GARAM PANI" (Warm water)?????????????????????

Russia never came to afghanistan for warm waters or garam pani that was the bull givin to pakistanies and rest of the wrodl russians were in afghanistan to help save there boy in kabul who actually invited them.

 

[Secret Service]

Pakistan to give access to Russia ...
Pakistan to give access to china...
Pakistan to give access to US..

for WHAT , to counter india ?

inplace had Pakistan to give just a 10% comparable access to india , pakistan would be a far better country today....

you have a phobia with Pakistan ...

 

[American Eagle]

saad445566, in response to your post on my three postings on Russia and warm water ports. I am sharing actual history that most younger folks today, whether in the US, Pakistan, India, or elsewhere in today's world are unaware of...the contemporary history of Russia's national quest for war water ports via Iran and Afghanistan.

My singular opinion today is that where the Russian fleet can visit, birth, and get repairs matters little bottled up in the shallow draft Arabian Sea.

Russia's free enterprise economy today largely exists based on it's huge gas and oil deposits and sales, primarily to Europe, secondarily to China, India, and Japan gives today's Russia an entirely different focus vs. the old Communist days. There are of course hold over views on both the Russian and rest of the world sides but these are starting to die off due to sheer age, myself being an example in my early 70s, I won't "live forever."

Economics today dictate rational business focused actions and purposes.

The Russian Navy has helped take the edge off of the Somalia pirates which bloody murdering thugs need to be eradicated. The Indian Navy has likewise been of assistance there.

What do the readers of the PDF say about what the Pakistani Navy has done to help put down the Somali pirates? Be interested in everyone's fact based comments.

 

[roadrunner]

I believe improving Russian- Pakistan relations are a good thing for India, if Russia has some influence over Pakistan it can very well work in India's favor given the strategic relations India shares with Russia

Russia doesnt share any strategic relations with India, particularly now that SCO is establishing itself.

India's interest in Russian technology will ensure continuing relations. But strategically India is an irrelevance for Russia.

 

[American Eagle]

Russia is a very important source of gas and oil to India. Perhaps you overlooked this point?

President Musharraf was negotiating the proposed oil land gas lines from the "Stans" through Afghanistan into Pakistan, with pipelines in the "plan" to include over to and connecting up with Indian pipelines at the border of Paksitan and India, etc.,etc.

 

[Time Assassin]

Pak allies should be:

China
Iran
Turkey
BAngladesh
India
Russia
east Asian countries
south east Asian countries

No US and Arabs countries who treat us like slaves.

 

[Tshering22]

I believe improving Russian- Pakistan relations are a good thing for India, if Russia has some influence over Pakistan it can very well work in India's favor given the strategic relations India shares with Russia

I don't think so. Russia is not Soviet Union even if it is our closest friend. It has to play its cards carefully in a multi-polar world and hence can only advise unless and until it is directly affected. This is not wrong because that's how India would react if this was the case. If it was warm water access Russians wanted, why didn't they ask Iran or us? This is a news to me.

 

[Hindustani]

This is actually very good news

 

[Obambam]

And you seem to have this impression that politics never change for Sino-Pak relations!!

True, like how China still backs Pakistan for SCO any day of the week over India but Russia had already done so prior to India's entry.

Lol...again same Rhetoric. Russia knew long back that mig-35 would not make it. India instead had compensated it by additional Su-30 orders and Upgradation of Mig-29.
Yes...your statement would be having value IF the US planes were selected.

Yes but what harm done is done. Russia have already decided and they have openly invited Pakistan into the Sino-Russo camp and inked several deals.
Their relationship will only get closer due to Pakistan having closer ties with the Islamic world and being situated in a key area that links ME with Central Asia.

Russia is not in a position to ask India for funds. Russia's economy is pretty decent. It's not just money that Russia chose to partner with India.

Undoubtedly true. Russia's economy is no longer what it used to be right after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The fact that they invited India in for the project was down to mutual interest and to lower the cost. Afterall Russia can still find ways to fund it and make its 5th gen but India doesn't have the capability to do so yet.