Pakistan show cases new assualt rifle

[Shiji]

Can anyone tell me what are those attachments or things along with G-3 rifle in the 5th picture.

Those attachments are the standard gear that you find on a paintball gun. The Round thing that you see on the top is the magazine and it houses the ammunition. Guessing by the size of that magazine I would say it will house around 70-100 rounds. The cylindrical structure that you see at the back attached to the grip handle of the gun is actually a Compressed C02 (Carbon Di Oxide) Canister. It is used to provide pressure so that the paintballs can be fired. This is a G-3A3 that is strictly for training purposes. You can use this gun to fire balls that contain paint at your simulated enemy. When the rounds hit they break and spill out the paint and the target is covered in a distinct colour. Thus you know if your target is "Dead" or not.
Though I am not sure if it is effective or not. Because that Magazine on top screws the whole Aim of the gun.

 

[Hasham24]

can anyone tell me the name of this assault rifle so that i can find more details.

 

[niaz]

I would like to ask experts that why don’t POF come up with an improved version of AK-47 such as Israeli ‘Galil’. AK-47 has all the essentials of the best assault rifle; it is idiot proof, very sturdy and easy to manufacture and maintain. Only complaint is accuracy at beyond 200 meters. Reducing the bore to 7mm (0.2756) inches will give improve penetration over 5.56 mm and reduce the cartridge weight as well. Improvement of the bore design should improve the accuracy up to 300 meters, this should be sufficient as few engagements take place beyond this range.

 

[echo 1]

Naiz you really seem to know a lot about weapons, so I have a question for you.

What if we were to turn the G3 into a bulpup and reduce the overall weight of the weapon. How would this effect range and accuricy

 

[Kasrkin]

I would like to ask experts that why don’t POF come up with an improved version of AK-47 such as Israeli ‘Galil’. AK-47 has all the essentials of the best assault rifle; it is idiot proof, very sturdy and easy to manufacture and maintain. Only complaint is accuracy at beyond 200 meters. Reducing the bore to 7mm (0.2756) inches will give improve penetration over 5.56 mm and reduce the cartridge weight as well. Improvement of the bore design should improve the accuracy up to 300 meters, this should be sufficient as few engagements take place beyond this range.

A very good question Niaz but the answer is simple: we can’t afford to experiment with these new cartridges. What you’ve said in regards to finding a half-way between the 7.62 and the 5.56 has been done by the Chinese and they have fielded their new line QBZ series of assault rifles with this new supposedly perfect round, the 5.8x42mm. But ballistics tests in the west have shown that these parameters are a bit of a disappointment, they don’t achieve the speed or aerodynamic stability of the 5.56mm and the impact heavy advantages of the 7.62 are lost as well due to the weight reduction. If this concept was as great as expected by some then the western militaries would’ve adopted it extensively but they're sticking to the NATO standard 5.56x45mm so that’s what we’re going for as well in the PK-8 which I’m sure you must’ve heard of.

Also we need to consider that in case of a future war Pakistan might have to take Turkish, Saudi or Iranian munitions like we did once before and all these nations use the NATO standard (5.56 and 7.62).

Hope that answers your question.

 

[adnan1479]

7mm round does not have a good trajectory
g-3 bullpup was suggested to the Pakistan military in 2001 (what became of it, i don't know)

the only latest rifles to adopt the bullpup configuration are the Tavor and the F2000

All the current and future leading brands are NOT bullpup (G-36, SCAR, HK416, HK417, XM-8, Masada, Massoud, All latest Russian AK variants, Beretta ARX-160 and so on) - - soldiers prefer the standard versions as changing magazines is quicker on a conventional rifle as compared to bullpup.

i agree with the gentleman above - - we had better stick to the common 5.56 and 7.62 calibres.(i personally favour the 7.62 any day )

 

[Shiji]

Go for the configration like the PP-19 kinda looks cute.

 

[niaz]

7mm round does not have a good trajectory.......

I have had opportunity to use a friend's 0.27 Winchester (as close to 7 mm as you can get) on a deer stalking/shooting holiday in Scottish Highlands. I found it to be an excellent sporting rifle. Nothing wrong with the trajectory. Admittedly it was bolt action so don’t know how transformation to automatic would affect its performance

 

[Shiji]

G-3 is a real good weapon. Now you are gonna ask how do I know this? Well for one thing I have fired the G-3A3 (Wooden and Composite Grip) more then once. I first fired the G-3 when my dad was in FC in Baluchistan and even in the 40C+ heat the G-3 didn't jam ONCE during the test fires. The latest firing of the G-3A3 by me was last year. Don't swear at my technique but I had just gone to the field after playing COD-4!

 

[TaimiKhan]

AoA,

Well there have been many drawbacks mentioned for bull pup designs and one of the most mentioned is the firing position in the lying down posture.

Well i think pakistan shouldnt change the 7.62*51mm calibre, rather they should go for a new rifle. And the best choice right now is HK-417 not 416. Reason being HK-417 is for 7.62*51mm round and is available is various lengths.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8467/hk41712links.jpg

This is the same weapon design chosen by the turkish armed forces. We can use both the 5.56 & 7.62 calibre.

And PA should also introduce SAW in the form of MG4, which is one hell of a weapon, reason being MG3 is pretty heavy. MG4 is for 7.62*51mm bullets.

The cost would be just for induction of new rifle,which can be done slowly and phase out G3s. the ammo wont have to be changed. and the strategic ammo reserve will also be intact.

Comments welcomed.

Thx

 

[muse]

Taimikhan


What is keeping POF from transitioning away from G3 and MG3 to the products you mention?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Well, cost is one of the major factor. They have invested in the infrastructure of these weapons for the past so many years & have strategic reserves of these weapons & ammo. They would prefer to divert the cost of induction new infantry weapons to buy something else.

And one other factor that i see is the inability of our armed forces to induct modern infantry weapons is resistance to change. As in business studies we hear that organizations fear change which has been the same case for our army to not to adopt to new concepts in infantry weapons. e.g new assault rifle, sniper rifles, AMR rifles, hand held grenade launchers, automatic grenade launchers etc. they have inducted some of these things but numbers r very few.

 

[TaimiKhan]

POF has the ability to make these weapons, even private sector has made some of these weapons and show cased in international markets.

PA has been india specific but i think time has come for PA to induct these weapons in huge numbers as they will be needing these weapons in future. These weapons make up as force multipliers which are both useful in a conventional war or in counter insurgency.

 

[TaimiKhan]

PA should keep MG3, give G3 the reserve and civilian armed forces and also can be kept for the reserve forces in case of war, but PA and some of the elite units should change to new assault rifle, grenade launchers, sniper rifles and stuff.

We even should start on a low level on the Digital soldier programs, which is the need of future. Bring in private sector who can help a lot in these programs. Local private companies are making Body Armor, Individual Soldier Gears, even East West Infinity company is making GPS related squad or platoon level systems for better battle management of individual soldiers.

I do hope PA goes towards this way and we see better weapons and systems.

We have got sniper rifles, we even have started to induct grenade launchers but they r to some specific units or in very low qty, we need to make them and then export if possible.

 

[Tang0]

A very good question Niaz but the answer is simple: we can’t afford to experiment with these new cartridges. What you’ve said in regards to finding a half-way between the 7.62 and the 5.56 has been done by the Chinese and they have fielded their new line QBZ series of assault rifles with this new supposedly perfect round, the 5.8x42mm. But ballistics tests in the west have shown that these parameters are a bit of a disappointment, they don’t achieve the speed or aerodynamic stability of the 5.56mm and the impact heavy advantages of the 7.62 are lost as well due to the weight reduction. If this concept was as great as expected by some then the western militaries would’ve adopted it extensively but they're sticking to the NATO standard 5.56x45mm so that’s what we’re going for as well in the PK-8 which I’m sure you must’ve heard of.

Also we need to consider that in case of a future war Pakistan might have to take Turkish, Saudi or Iranian munitions like we did once before and all these nations use the NATO standard (5.56 and 7.62).

Hope that answers your question.

Actually, people have been trying to find a happy medium between the 5.56 and 7.62 since the early 70's. Most of the early work focused around the 7mm magnum common to many hunting rifles. For various reasons, the ballistics of the 7mm just couldn't be finessed into a better cartridge than was already available in the 5.56 and 7.62. Recently, I have heard a great deal of chatter about the 6.8 SPC. I'm not entirely convinced yet, but it certainly seems promising. I've never actually used it, so I will leave it to this article to explain.
6.8 mm SPC Cartridge History & Development. Hornady's Ammunition. The Stag Carbine.

Of course, converting all the 5.56 and 7.62 production lines would probably cost a horrendous amount of money, so even if the 6.8 is a better cartridge I doubt it will ever see full deployment. After all the M-16 is still around after 44+ years despite better rifles in the meantime. (See the G11: HK G11 , or the OICW Modern Firearms - Alliant / HK XM-29 SABR / OICW assault rifle)

So basically, yes, there are better options out there. Cost and the danger of undertaking such a large conversion prevent significant changes from happening. This is something of a mystery in the infantry world. When a new aircraft is designed politicians are more than happy to rubber stamp it's deployment, despite the fact that it will inevitably have significant problems upon reaching the fleet. When a new rifle is suggested, the idea always seems to get shot down for one reason or another...