Pakistan’s caste system: The untouchable's struggle

[Emmie]

Trivia: Did you know that the word 'Zaat' is a derivative of the word 'Jaati', the Sanskrit word for caste?



That's plain wrong. It's not right, and if it is, I would very much like to see the written source of it.

In fact the best way to read the Vedas is to read the Bhagvad Gita which is in fact the 'saar' (summary) of the Vedas.

If you have read the Bhagvad Gita, you have, in effect, read the Vedas.

Can you share some verses from Bhagwat Gita or Vedas?

 

[AVinayKumar]

Can you share some verses from Bhagwat Gita or Vedas?

Not the thread for that.. Thread Kind of being derailed I guess

 

[Ignited Mind]

Can you share some verses from Bhagwat Gita or Vedas?

It's all over then internet, my dear.

In fact, if anything, I would strongly recommend that you read the Gita at least once in your lifetime.

Not for any religious reason. Just read it as a textbook of sorts. It's a world of knowledge, thousands of years of knowledge in there, believe you me.

Many lumaniries form all faiths have read the Gita and derived vast knowledge from it. This includes APJ Abdul Kalam as well.

 

[Emmie]

Anyways let us not discuss religions, thread will end up in a troll fest.

It's all over then internet, my dear.

In fact, if anything, I would strongly recommend that you read the Gita at least once in your lifetime.

Not for any religious reason. Just read it as a textbook of sorts. It's a world of knowledge, thousands of years of knowledge in there, believe you me.

Many lumaniries form all faiths have read the Gita and derived vast knowledge from it. This includes APJ Abdul Kalam as well.

Its really hard for me to find one here in Pakistan.. Could you please manage to gather the info I require and share it with me in PM?

Not the thread for that.. Thread Kind of being derailed I guess

PM me if you have..

 

[Ignited Mind]

Anyways let us not discuss religions, thread will end up in a troll fest.



Its really hard for me to find one here in Pakistan.. Could you please manage to gather the info I required and share it with me in PM?

It's all available online. Still if you want any assistance, just PM me and I'll try my best.

 

[Emmie]

It's all available online. Still if you want any assistance, just PM me and I'll try my best.

If I had found I wouldn't have been asking you for a favor.. Anyways leave it don't bother.

 

[Icarus]

I do not know where you live presently but the same term choora is used as mock, abuse, call names, describe his or her job in this part of the world, unfortunately. Saying some one 'choora' can land one in jail in India.

Also the concept of Islam fails when you suggest/ force/ encourage/ask/name/categorize people by their cast and distinct identity. A Muslim is a Muslim, that's it, isn't it ?

Name of the clan, heritage, identity has nothing to do with this particular word which has its origin from the same evil division of Vernas and has negative description of one's so called identity, heritage, clan. These words (clan, identity) are just facility of educated high cast people who deceive and cover up (same like [may be]the way you are doing) and make sure that low cast one's be keep at their place.

That my friend is India, although not appreciated, the word "Choora" has yet to reach the level of a racial slur in Pakistan. Secondly, Yes, we are muslims but we are deeply rooted in local culture as well and clans hold great importance.
I am a Sethi, sub-clan of the Khatris of Bhera and I take great pride in that as there is a long history attached with my clan and I am proud of it. It's my heritage, my identity and I cannot shy away from it.

 

[newdelhinsa]

That my friend is India, although not appreciated, the word "Choora" has yet to reach the level of a racial slur in Pakistan. Secondly, Yes, we are muslims but we are deeply rooted in local culture as well and clans hold great importance.
I am a Sethi, sub-clan of the Khatris of Bhera and I take great pride in that as there is a long history attached with my clan and I am proud of it. It's my heritage, my identity and I cannot shy away from it.

No its not in India only, read the thread again. At least Indians Identify this problem. I can post many Pakistani AV and articles on this. If there is a smoke then assume there is fire as well.

and

Indeed, You will, because your ''Zaat'' (Jaati in Hindi/Sanskriti) is so called high cast and has never been subject to discrimination and ridicule, so you will always promote this Idea of feeling proud even if you are a Muslim.

Trust me you guys will opt the same lines which Hindu bigots follow to justify castism and would conveniently not understand the logic behind discriminatory division of society.

 

[Icarus]

No its not in India only, read the thread again. At least Indians Identify this problem. I can post many Pakistani AV and articles on this. If there is a smoke then assume there is fire as well.

and

Indeed, You will, because your ''Zaat'' (Jaati in Hindi/Sanskriti) is so called high cast and has never been subject to discrimination and ridicule, so you will always promote this Idea of feeling proud even if you are a Muslim.

Trust me you guys will opt the same lines which Hindu bigots follow to justify castism and would conveniently not to understand the logic behind discriminatory division of society.

Clans hold know value in daily dealing, they are just a matter of pride for us because they represent our identity. Two of my uncles are "Rathra", a low cast in the caste system but they are still married to Kshatriya women. In Pakistan, that's not a problem.
I reiterate for you once again that clans are a source of identity, not bias or discrimination.

 

[jayron]

Of all the things, Pakistanis have chosen the worst element of Indian culture, caste system, to stay true to their Indian roots. SAD.

 

[newdelhinsa]

That my friend is India, although not appreciated, the word "Choora" has yet to reach the level of a racial slur in Pakistan. Secondly, Yes, we are muslims but we are deeply rooted in local culture as well and clans hold great importance.
I am a Sethi, sub-clan of the Khatris of Bhera and I take great pride in that as there is a long history attached with my clan and I am proud of it. It's my heritage, my identity and I cannot shy away from it.

Again quoting you.

''Khatris'' means ''Khshatrias'' in Hindi and Sanskrit which is exactly one of the discriminating Vernas [Brahmin, Khshatrias, Vaishya and Shudra] most of the Pakistanis rant against.

You are a castist Sir and encouraging castism, may be doing it without knowing.

Clans hold know value in daily dealing, they are just a matter of pride for us because they represent our identity. Two of my uncles are "Rathra", a low cast in the caste system but they are still married to Kshatriya women. In Pakistan, that's not a problem.
I reiterate for you once again that clans are a source of identity, not bias or discrimination.

Rathra are not low cast but are Dogars (Khatris).

 

[Icarus]

Again quoting you.

''Khatris'' means ''Khshatrias'' in Hindi and Sanskrit which is exactly one of the discriminating Vernas [Brahmin, Khshatrias, Vaishya and Shudra] most of the Pakistanis rant against.

You are a castist Sir and encouraging castism, may be doing it without knowing.



Rathra are not low cast but are Dogars (Khatris).

Oh my dear friend, I had posted that to lay emphasis on my caste. I reiterate(again) that the Caste System has NO basis in Pakistani society. It's just limited to names and family history.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Of all the things, Pakistanis have chosen the worst element of Indian culture, caste system, to stay true to their Indian roots. SAD.

I think you misunderstand the true nature of subcontinent Muslims. The biggest Myth promoted by Hindus and Muslims of subcontinent has been this belief or concept that all the Muslims of Subcontinent don't belong here because they came from somewhere else. The Hindutva parties promote this concept so they can justify ousting Muslims from India. The Muslims also buy into this myth thinking they are all children of Mughals and Afghans/Persians/Turks. The truth is that less than 5% of Indian Muslims have any ancesters who came from foreign land. Even the foreign invaders that came with the conquering Armies did not bring their wives with them and as they settled in India, they married local women.

The other 95% were Hindus who converted to Islam. Even though they converted they did not give up some of their cultural traditions and this is why Muslims in Subcontinent maintain practices from their Hindu ancestary that have no place in a pure Islamic Society.So understand that Muslims of subcontinent have not Choosen but Maintained their previous practices of their Hindu Past.

 

[newdelhinsa]

Oh my dear friend, I had posted that to lay emphasis on my caste. I reiterate(again) that the Caste System has NO basis in Pakistani society. It's just limited to names and family history.

Ok Sir now I have to waste my time by producing fact from very Pakistani sources, when I was to do other better things.

Its morning in Oceania I will post more on this toady at night if this thread survived.

BTW reading first post and googling will help you to identify this problem which is prevalent Pakistan.

Just 4-5 months back your own President made racial slur ridiculing/mocking Nawaj Shariff in a Public rally by calling him ''Lohar'' (Iron smith).

As I told you before that at least Indians Identify this problem but in Pakistan people have been deceived by their half hearted/incomprehensive assimilation into Islam or they suffer from Stockholm syndrome because they have not been allowed to even address this issue.

BTW feudalistic mind set (you can not deny) has a purpose in Pakistan, its a cousin brother castism of India, Isn't it ?

 

[Jackdaws]

The idea is not to score brownie points. But the caste system became even worse during the British rule as they tried to make sense of it by relating it to their own Victorian class system. The British even labeled some communities as "thief tribes" some were debarred from military service.

Anyways, it is a shame in India that people are judged because of their caste. It is still very rampant in India - just open any matrimonial column. I find it pretty disgusting.