Pakistan plans to construct motorway from Peshawar to Kabul

[WishLivePak]

It is still 1 country!


fallacy could be shown in smaller terms instead of dramatically blowing it out of proportion

Girl, get familiar with political science first, then we can have a sound discussion. Till then, emotions and sentiments aren't the best way to keep this discussion going ("I think Nawaz should be responsible for every single thing in Pakistan because he's big fish"). Get over your clear bias. And admit when you're wrong, don't be an arrogrant girl. Learn constitution, go on wikipedia if you can't go to university. Common sense/education is free if you seek it.

And if 2 companies operate in Pakistan, because smaller company doing bad does not mean big company is responsible for helping the smaller. It has no business sticking nose in smaller company.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Pakistan is not a welfare state nor can it become. Indeed what you say is what people need, but Pakistan cannot afford it. We are a nation of 200m with a gdp that is low per capita. Hence, it'll bankrupt our gov't if we start to increase welfare. Pakistan needs development before welfare. Go look at any history of powerful nation. It went through development before it gave welfare. If you go welfare before development, as is the case for Cuba, you suffer.

Golden words. PTI is foolish to promise a welfare state with the only real reform promised being a widening of the tax net and taxing the rich more heavily. It's a farce.

Britain had an empire and vast resources at it's disposal before it gave universal healthcare to it's citizens.
It had a very long running democratic set up before it had competent governments.

Pakistanis wan't welfare today, and unlike the rest of the world where they like to pay their way. Here people are saying that by curbing corruption and fixing the system, we'll have a welfare state in a few years. These are childish dreams, only two things await PTI and it's followers, failure in this quest OR grave danger for them and for Pakistan should they force this idealism in the real world.

You know even in Canada, US and many other nations, education falls under provincial gov't. Health care too in Canada. And Canada's education isn't perfect. We pay a lot of tax to gov't and it doesn't provide enough subsidy. But do we complain? Nope. We blame whoever it falls under.

So when KP gov't will fail for something constitutionaly it is liable for, you will blame Nawaz. Shows your bias.

PM has to do what he is constitutionally liable for. Or he does what he is capable of. If senate or parliament will not allow him to do something, he simply can't. This isn't US that he can put forth it as presidential order.

PTI is entirely responsible for there matters in KPK.

 

[WishLivePak]

Golden words. PTI is foolish to promise a welfare state with the only real reform promised being a widening of the tax net and taxing the rich more heavily. It's a farce.

Britain had an empire and vast resources at it's disposal before it gave universal healthcare to it's citizens.
It had a very long running democratic set up before it had competent governments.

Pakistanis wan't welfare today, and unlike the rest of the world where they like to pay their way. Here people are saying that by curbing corruption and fixing the system, we'll have a welfare state in a few years. These are childish dreams, only two things await PTI and it's followers, failure in this quest OR grave danger for them and for Pakistan should they force this idealism in the real world.



PTI is entirely responsible for there matters in KPK.

Well sir, this is the problem. I wish they could have basic economics course in their elementary school.

If you raise tax, go after the rich, capital flee. As tax rises, people invest less and people also consume less. Hence, Microsoft and Apple are not targeted in the US, even though they have billions stacked outside of US. Hell, this burger king company bought our Tim hortons in canada so to save on taxes. In fact, Microsoft is buying many foreign companies with its foreign stacked money because it doesn't have to pay more tax.

US is just starting to implement health care. A country with 17 trillion GDP, .7 trillion on defense, how can it not have major welfare projects!

Canada, a very rich nation, took more than a century to implement health care. It started in 1946 by one province, which even today has less than 10 million population. Oh and it produces tons of oil. All provinces got health care in 1961, so it took 15 years from first implementation.

Sadly, our Pakistani friends don't understand basic economics and they would hire an immature leader like Imran khan to fulfill their short term goal and lead Pakistan into utter collapse. I've read what Imran wants to achieve, and i bet he wouldn't when elected. It'd bankrupt Pakistan. These are simply sweet talk, like how Nawaz said he will build bullet train, to win election.

Indeed KP, or any provincial gov't, is responsible for their province. But boy, when hate for Nawaz runs so deep, you gotta blame everything at him. And all good credit from entire Pakistan is put on Imran khan's plate. He's so powerful, he doesn't do anything and just with his words he improves Pakistan.

Imran Khan: Oye Nawaz, I'll grab you by your collar!
Nawaz: OMGGGGG I better work. Hurry dar sahab, lower oil prices, lower bijli price, increase reserves, reduce external debt, eliminate load shedding and gas shedding. Sir Imran is angry.

It's like Nawaz is a puppet of Imran.

Sorry for long essay, but not everyone can understand the situation in 2 lines.

 

[qamar1990]

Oh I have no doubt it is smart...I am asking who is paying for it and who is using it? Why arent politicians using it? Why they prefer choppers when they have such an excellent road (thats how their supporters advertise it)
!!

It's made for the people. Who can't afford choppers. Politicians who don't have choppers use the motorway.

 

[Dubious]

Girl, get familiar with political science first, then we can have a sound discussion.

You need to familiarize yourself with real potential vs corrupted reality

Till then, emotions and sentiments aren't the best way to keep this discussion going ("I think Nawaz should be responsible for every single thing in Pakistan because he's big fish").

This isnt emotion but a fact of a leader...Oh wait Nawaz isnt a leader he is a RULER.....

Get over your clear bias. And admit when you're wrong, don't be an arrogrant girl.

Mind if you practice what you preach?

Learn constitution, go on wikipedia if you can't go to university. Common sense/education is free if you seek it.

People only need to take a dip at personal attacks when they themselves have comprehension issues!

And if 2 companies operate in Pakistan, because smaller company doing bad does not mean big company is responsible for helping the smaller. It has no business sticking nose in smaller company.

When the 2 company ARE under the same banner (same country) then YES bigger company is held responsible...

 

[Jungibaaz]

Imran Khan: Oye Nawaz, I'll grab you by your collar!
Nawaz: OMGGGGG I better work. Hurry dar sahab, lower oil prices, lower bijli price, increase reserves, reduce external debt, eliminate load shedding and gas shedding. Sir Imran is angry.

I still remember when he said this, but I can tell you with relative certainty, for better or for worse, I don't see IK becoming PM. Whether PTI can live beyond his image and transform into something better, I can't say.

But credit where it's due, PTI at least before 2012, had a very good system of lower and middle leadership. If they can overcome the has-beens that now flood their ranks and move beyond IK, his image and the party's current idealistic politics, they can go a long way.

When the 2 company ARE under the same banner (same country) then YES bigger company is held responsible...

This part is not true. A failing business, is the concern of none. Big business unless it's somehow occupying the same market, monopolising and making market conditions wrongly worse for smaller, then maybe the government steps in with relevant regulation.

The way world works is; survival of the fittest, if you can't survive in the business world it is on no-one to help you out.

It's all fine and well to say citizens need healthcare, education and so on. But this sort of logic should not exist in business. It's a very dangerous ideology to follow, ultimately bad for the people who buy into it.

 

[WishLivePak]

You need to familiarize yourself with real potential vs corrupted reality


This isnt emotion but a fact of a leader...Oh wait Nawaz isnt a leader he is a RULER.....


Mind if you practice what you preach?


People only need to take a dip at personal attacks when they themselves have comprehension issues!


When the 2 company ARE under the same banner (same country) then YES bigger company is held responsible...

asking someone to get familiar with constitution isn't personal attack. At best, it is a very sound advice.

Regarding your last 2 statements, I wouldn't give a damn if smaller company under the same banner is failing. I will mind my own business. That is, unless, the smaller company asks for help and gives me authorization. In this case, if provincial gov't asks for help and hands over education ministry to the federation. Though, it was actually the provinces who wanted to take away education from federation.

Well, it is good to know indeed that any shortcomings in education in KP is going to be blamed on federal gov't, because Nawaz is the big fish. It is also certain that any achievement will be under the belt of PTI, because in that case the federal gov't isn't the big fish.

Hypocrisy at its best.

 

[Dubious]

This part is not true. A failing business, is the concern of none. Big business unless it's somehow occupying the same market, monopolising and making market conditions wrongly worse for smaller, then maybe the government steps in with relevant regulation.

The way world works is; survival of the fittest, if you can't survive in the business world it is on no-one to help you out.

It's all fine and well to say citizens need healthcare, education and so on. But this sort of logic should not exist in business. It's a very dangerous ideology to follow, ultimately bad for the people who buy into it.

Running a country is not running a business...Even if it is...One usually makes sure the business gives returns which you PUT BACK in the business....Not take out for personal use!

A business in debts with no ways to pay back is not a very successful one either!

Why take a business scenario for 1 thing but overlook it when talking about other issues?

asking someone to get familiar with constitution isn't personal attack. At best, it is a very sound advice.

Oh maybe in your language this is getting familiar with constitution or just boasting your secondary school mindset? :

Learn constitution, go on wikipedia if you can't go to university. Common sense/education is free if you seek it.

Regarding your last 2 statements, I wouldn't give a damn if smaller company under the same banner is failing. I will mind my own business. That is, unless, the smaller company asks for help and gives me authorization. In this case, if provincial gov't asks for help and hands over education ministry to the federation. Though, it was actually the provinces who wanted to take away education from federation.

Because some people were complaining that federation cant be everywhere and also to let go of the control freak attitude of big fishes while giving more power to individual provinces as is done for effective governing!

Well, it is good to know indeed that any shortcomings in education in KP is going to be blamed on federal gov't, because Nawaz is the big fish. It is also certain that any achievement will be under the belt of PTI, because in that case the federal gov't isn't the big fish.

Hypocrisy at its best.

It is not hypocrisy if the big fish knows how to be modest down to earth and honest esp when everything is literally separate. However, federal is the center and like how managers are responsible for those under them, they do not hog on to praises as well but do take the blame for any shortcomings...I believe your management class didnt teach you management 101...

But of course in countries where corruption is soaring high and where common sense is not present ....the opposite is seen true!

I am yet to see Canadian PM not go on press every time someting bad happens in the NATION! He doesnt shove the head of the province for important speeches ...

However, when a province does good I dont see the PM hogging praise or praising himself!

 

[Jungibaaz]

Running a country is not running a business...Even if it is...One usually makes sure the business gives returns which you PUT BACK in the business....Not take out for personal use!

A business in debts with no ways to pay back is not a very successful one either!

Why take a business scenario for 1 thing but overlook it when talking about other issues?

You're not understanding the point being made here. Forget the country, I'm talking about a business in a market, if it fails, it is on no-one but the business owner. And it is no-one's obligation to help them out or save them.

I don't see how you're linking this in with governments, Pakistan and the economy or economic theory.

 

[Dubious]

You're not understanding the point being made here. Forget the country, I'm talking about a business in a market, if it fails, it is on no-one but the business owner. And it is no-one's obligation to help them out or save them.

I don't see how you're linking this in with governments, Pakistan and the economy or economic theory.

Mr. @WishLivePak gave the example of a businesses (big and small) as a comparison for provincial vs federal govt.

And if 2 companies operate in Pakistan, because smaller company doing bad does not mean big company is responsible for helping the smaller. It has no business sticking nose in smaller company.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Mr. @WishLivePak gave the example of a businesses (big and small) as a comparison for provincial vs federal govt.

Right, and provincial government failures are it's own. Especially if they're done in the manner, rivalry they are done with PTI and the current federal government. But the key to understanding this is, if a business fails the loss is of the employees, employers, consumers, and any person with a share in it.

If a provincial government fails, it is the fault those leaders of the province. Of course it effects everyone else too, a whole lot more.

 

[Dubious]

If a provincial government fails, it is the fault those leaders of the province. Of course it effects everyone else too, a whole lot more.

I believe its a failure of every single person...It is a system not an individual entity....Because of these rivalries the only one suffering are the everyday person not the bloody politicians....

 

[WishLivePak]

Running a country is not running a business...Even if it is...One usually makes sure the business gives returns which you PUT BACK in the business....Not take out for personal use!

A business in debts with no ways to pay back is not a very successful one either!

Why take a business scenario for 1 thing but overlook it when talking about other issues?

Oh maybe in your language this is getting familiar with constitution or just boasting your secondary school mindset? :



Because some people were complaining that federation cant be everywhere and also to let go of the control freak attitude of big fishes while giving more power to individual provinces as is done for effective governing!


It is not hypocrisy if the big fish knows how to be modest down to earth and honest esp when everything is literally separate. However, federal is the center and like how managers are responsible for those under them, they do not hog on to praises as well but do take the blame for any shortcomings...I believe your management class didnt teach you management 101...

But of course in countries where corruption is soaring high and where common sense is not present ....the opposite is seen true!

I am yet to see Canadian PM not go on press every time someting bad happens in the NATION! He doesnt shove the head of the province for important speeches ...

However, when a province does good I dont see the PM hogging praise or praising himself!

Actually, they teach you common knowledge in public school. "Mind your own business." Which is, federal gov't is not responsible for what it doesn't fall under it. Take this for example, is Raheal Sharif responsible for education in Pakistan? He too is big fish. But does education fall under him under constitution?

Oh and our Canadian federal gov't cannot interfere in the matters of province. We uphold the constitution here, not make mockery out of it like in Pakistan. And if he has to say, he can only say. He cannot force provinces to do anything and similarly for the failings for provincial health care or education minister, they will be responsible, not the federation. If federation is the big fish and is responsible for the short comings for provinces, then why have provinces in Pakistan.

Federation responsibility under constitution is to protect it from outside threats and also to be the representative of the provinces to the outside world. Of course it gets complicated, but under the constitution, federation is responsible for what it is liable for and for what it is capable of doing.


Gee girl, go read the constitution. Or better, read this: Federation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or Canadian federalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is also a good read: Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jungibaaz]

I believe its a failure of every single person...It is a system not an individual entity....Because of these rivalries the only one suffering are the everyday person not the bloody politicians....

If a country is failing, it's the fault of it's government, if the governments failing, it's on the people for voting them in and keeping them there. And from there on, every individual is to blame for their own stupidity.

If a business fails, unless all businesses of it's kind are failing for reasons out of it's control... it is ONLY the fault of those in charge of it.

If KPK fails, it is the fault of IK and his party, if they fail, it is the fault of those who gave them their vote and set them up to fail. If KPK is failing due to policies of the federal government, that's a separate story. PTI as a provincial government has some freedom to govern the province according to it's own will, and to an extent with the ability to run it without external politics, or federal politics playing a role.

And as for KPK, now let's stop speaking hypothetically. IK made a boat-load of promises he knows he can't keep, especially the time frame of some of these, he also forgot to mention the cost. If KPK can't become a model province, within 5 years, it WILL be his fault, he promised it, irrespective of what is going on elsewhere and whether the federal government is helping make that happen. His word, it's on him. Take education for example, the model province dealing with the worst insurgence in the history of the province, sought help from JI, who naturally had all the wrong answers to all the wrong questions, this is on IK, not Nawaz.

 

[Cheetah786]

And who would pay or maintain that afterwards?

These are toll roads,so user will have to pay for it.