Pakistan Getting MI 28 and Surface to Air Missiles from Russia?

[Penguin]

 

[Bilal.]

So FK-1000 confirmed? There is another system KS-1000 that uses similar missile or maybe its just an alternative name for the same.

 

[Penguin]

Sky Dragon 12 (Tianlong 12, SD-12, FK-1000) mobile air defense system
The Tianlong 12/ SD-12/ FK-1000 missile can targes UAVs, PGMs etc and has range of 12 km and an altitude of 5 km.

NOte the absense of CANNON!

More stuff here SkyDragon-12 Mobile Surface-to-Air Missile System | Chinese Military Review

This here qualifies as a full scale system.

FB-10 Short Range Air Defense Missile System being displayed At China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition 2014 (Airshow China 2014).

 

[Basel]

@Penguin If you think that China can already offer better versions of weapons systems offered by Russia, then the question is why Pakistan should buy Russian ones? and Russians must have known what China can offer to Pakistan.

 

[Penguin]

ZBL 09
Chinese ZBL-09 Self-Propelled Short Range Air Defense (SHORAD) | Chinese Military Review

@Penguin If you think that China can already offer better versions of weapons systems offered by Russia, then the question is why Pakistan should buy Russian ones? and Russians must have known what China can offer to Pakistan.

It remains to be seen which systems are better! None of these have been combat tested for example. We have no idea which are more sensitive to jamming, for example. Question is also whether Pakistan is wise to put all its cards with China (just like it can ask if it is wise to rely solely on USA). There is also the extent to which systems are or can be integrated in to a network, that is to be considered. WHile there are plenty systems in China, we don't know how they relate/work with one another (contrary to mature russian products, with track records of decades). ANd then there is the question of having a mixed bag of systems (in terms of origin) ... logistics .... price .... product support ... training .... many of these will factor into a package and price of a deal.

 

[Basel]

ZBL 09
Chinese ZBL-09 Self-Propelled Short Range Air Defense (SHORAD) | Chinese Military Review


It remains to be seen which systems are better! None of these have been combat tested for example. We have no idea which are more sensitive to jamming, for example. Question is also whether Pakistan is wise to put all its cards with China (just like it can ask if it is wise to rely solely on USA). There is also the extent to which systems are or can be integrated in to a network, that is to be considered. WHile there are plenty systems in China, we don't know how they relate/work with one another (contrary to mature russian products, with track records of decades). ANd then there is the question of having a mixed bag of systems (in terms of origin) ... logistics .... price .... product support ... training .... many of these will factor into a package and price of a deal.

If you had decision power to purchase system (for Pakistan) which you had gone for?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@Penguin If you think that China can already offer better versions of weapons systems offered by Russia, then the question is why Pakistan should buy Russian ones? and Russians must have known what China can offer to Pakistan.

Though you have asked this question from @Penguin, in my own opinion it might be because Russia used to procure missile equipment from Ukraine which Pakistan can access and manufacture for them so that may be the only reason why Russia is interested to give the missile systems. Moreover they might be thinking of upgrading so that can also be an other reason.

 

[Basel]

Though you have asked this question from @Penguin, in my own opinion it might be because Russia used to procure missile equipment from Ukraine which Pakistan can access and manufacture for them so that may be the only reason why Russia is interested to give the missile systems. Moreover they might be thinking of upgrading so that can also be an other reason.

I was thinking why Russia offered systems which China already have with upgrades like AESA FCR also you mentioned that Ukraine also have those systems available and Pakistan can purchase from them too, but question is why those systems were not purchased from both China and Ukraine and why we are getting interested purchasing them from Russia? Is Russia offering upgraded ones with low sale price then other two countries?

@Penguin what SAM or other weapon system Pakistan can look to purchase from Russia which China, Ukraine can't offer and US & EU may not want to sale to Pakistan?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

ZBL 09
Chinese ZBL-09 Self-Propelled Short Range Air Defense (SHORAD) | Chinese Military Review


It remains to be seen which systems are better! None of these have been combat tested for example. We have no idea which are more sensitive to jamming, for example. Question is also whether Pakistan is wise to put all its cards with China (just like it can ask if it is wise to rely solely on USA). There is also the extent to which systems are or can be integrated in to a network, that is to be considered. WHile there are plenty systems in China, we don't know how they relate/work with one another (contrary to mature russian products, with track records of decades). ANd then there is the question of having a mixed bag of systems (in terms of origin) ... logistics .... price .... product support ... training .... many of these will factor into a package and price of a deal.

Can this be an other factor.
Pakistan is using western technology and if Russian and Chinese systems can be tested would give added advantage in later developments.

 

[Penguin]

Tunguska, Tor, BUK-M1, S300PS are available from Ukraine. Yes. Just wondering if they are the same versions as those offered by Russia. (I'm inclined to think they are older versions)
Air defense technique

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I was thinking why Russia offered systems which China already have with upgrades like AESA FCR also you mentioned that Ukraine also have those systems available and Pakistan can purchase from them too, but question is why those systems were not purchased from both China and Ukraine and why we are getting interested purchasing them from Russia? Is Russia offering upgraded ones with low sale price then other two countries?

@Penguin what SAM or other weapon system Pakistan can look to purchase from Russia which China, Ukraine can't offer and US & EU may not want to sale to Pakistan?

There may be some things that might not be for sale or the respected country may not be in a position to provide the entire knowledge. Russia is the origin for the systems that Ukraine modifies to export. China on the other hand copies, modifies and develop new ones but they may not have all the knowledge. Russia is trying to rebuild, but the brains that were available during the time of USSR have been lost so new minds are required. They may offer even they may be interested in JV, that we have to wait and see how it goes.

 

[Basel]

Tunguska, Tor, BUK-M1, S300PS are available from Ukraine. Yes. Just wondering if they are the same versions as those offered by Russia. (I'm inclined to think they are older versions)
Air defense technique

But as you said that China can offer better versions of those while Ukraine have older ones, but Pakistan never went to buy those systems from both countries, even in early 90s when Pakistan could have bought S-300PS from Ukraine and China & some other country (whom Pakistan purchases weapons) could have upgraded them.

I hope systems offered by Russia full fill requirements of 21st century warfare as Pakistan have to face big and potent foe with much better tech and resources available then Pakistan.

 

[Penguin]

Tunguska, Tor, BUK S300 are available from Ukraine. Yes.

Just wondering if they are the same versions as those offered by Russia, however.

(I'm inclined to think they are older versions, see e.g. BUK > M1, see S300 > PS)
Air defense technique

 

[Viper0011.]

30 Of each at least to protect 10 -15 cities
Mi-35 30 Units
Mi-28NE 30 Units
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Pantsir-S1 (SA-22) 30 Units
Tor-M2KM (SA-15) 30 Units / Buk-M2 (SA-17) 30 Units

To purchase 60 SAM batteries for Cities and Assets protection a defensive asset

See the bold above. I am confused. You guys now have Spada....adding another Russian or Chinese option for short-mid range is fine. BUT, you guys really need a long range, high altitude system. Any plans for acquiring that?

 

[Penguin]

s-350, s-400?