Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[redgriffin]

Block 40/42 iirc use the same F110/F100 variants as the Block 50/52.
Difference is both blocks were made for different roles. 40/42 precision & night time tactical strike roles using lantirn. Their avionics are optimized for this role including the wide angle Holographic HUD.
Block 50/52 & advanced versions were initially focused on the SEAD role with greater multirole capabilities than the strike oriented 40/42s.
PAF's MLU is the Tape 5 which brings avionics to 50/52 levels. No engine enhancement from PW F-100 pw 220 to PW 229.
Frankly saying that 50/42 avionics are same as 5x os a misnomer. Different roles different optimizations unless talking about MSIP Vipers.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Block 40/42 iirc use the same F110/F100 variants as the Block 50/52.
Difference is both blocks were made for different roles. 40/42 precision & night time tactical strike roles using lantirn. Their avionics are optimized for this role including the wide angle Holographic HUD.
Block 50/52 & advanced versions were initially focused on the SEAD role with greater multirole capabilities than the strike oriented 40/42s.
PAF's MLU is the Tape 5 which brings avionics to 50/52 levels. No engine enhancement from PW F-100 pw 220 to PW 229.
Frankly saying that 50/42 avionics are same as 5x os a misnomer. Different roles different optimizations unless talking about MSIP Vipers.

USAF have dedicated squadrons comprised of Block 40/42/50 for SEAD missions before that F-4s were in that role. Also many Block 40/42/30 and even Blk 15 in Attack Roles.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We need a new order of F16 its been too long since we had F16 introduced , I feel like it was when I was young kid

 

[Viper0011.]

Block 40/42 iirc use the same F110/F100 variants as the Block 50/52.
Difference is both blocks were made for different roles. 40/42 precision & night time tactical strike roles using lantirn. Their avionics are optimized for this role including the wide angle Holographic HUD.
Block 50/52 & advanced versions were initially focused on the SEAD role with greater multirole capabilities than the strike oriented 40/42s.

Also remember, the engine power is different between out of the box block 52 compared to MLU's or block 40/42 Vipers (even between PW 100 and GE F 404 variants as each variant has power output different). With somewhat slightly different internal fuel carrying structure and with CFT's, the loiter time is much different in the Block 52 than in block 40's. Then there is weapons carrying capacity that's much larger with additional POD integrations pretty much ready to go in block 52 vipers than in MLU'd or block 40 jets.
Add future upgrade capacity, the MLU'd won't get further larger upgrades due to the airframe differences. So there are differences between the two versions. Avionics vise, yes, they are almost on par with current upgrades. For Pakistan, this is great as the capability they've received is tremendous for the war theater they may be dealing with. My suggestion behind the post with the OP was to not put the ADF through the entire MLU process, just do the STAR structure enhancements. Then use the money saved by limited MLU (if you will) and go buy additional Block 40 or ADF versions of -16's so the PAF can accumulate numbers of -16's. The beauty of the ADF version is that they come with pre-wired BVR capability and a version below the APG-68(v9) radar. So its almost on par without having to spend extra money. Structure enhancements would do and you got a very potent combat ready interceptor with decent multi-role capability.

 

[nomi007]

PAF's F-16 fleet is undergoing modernization at Turkish Aircraft Industries (TAI), Turkey.


F-16 MLU includes Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) capability, Link-16 data link, AN/APX-133 Advance Identification Friend or Foe Systems (AIFF), colored Multi-Functional Displays, AN/ALE-47 Advanced Countermeasures Dispenser Systems, “six-on-six”AIM-120 AMRAAM capability, Sniper Advanced targeting pod capability, AN/ALQ-211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suite (AIDEWS) pod capability and reconnaissance pod capability.

 

[SQ8]

Also remember, the engine power is different between out of the box block 52 compared to MLU's or block 40/42 Vipers (even between PW 100 and GE F 404 variants as each variant has power output different). With somewhat slightly different internal fuel carrying structure and with CFT's, the loiter time is much different in the Block 52 than in block 40's. Then there is weapons carrying capacity that's much larger with additional POD integrations pretty much ready to go in block 52 vipers than in MLU'd or block 40 jets.
Add future upgrade capacity, the MLU'd won't get further larger upgrades due to the airframe differences. So there are differences between the two versions. Avionics vise, yes, they are almost on par with current upgrades. For Pakistan, this is great as the capability they've received is tremendous for the war theater they may be dealing with. My suggestion behind the post with the OP was to not put the ADF through the entire MLU process, just do the STAR structure enhancements. Then use the money saved by limited MLU (if you will) and go buy additional Block 40 or ADF versions of -16's so the PAF can accumulate numbers of -16's. The beauty of the ADF version is that they come with pre-wired BVR capability and a version below the APG-68(v9) radar. So its almost on par without having to spend extra money. Structure enhancements would do and you got a very potent combat ready interceptor with decent multi-role capability.

GE F-101

Apart from the plumbing for the CFTs, internally the fuel systems stay pretty much the same

Certain differences arise in the newer 50/52+ models with the enlarged vertail stabilizer foundations as these are borrowed from the Block-60. But essentially a lot is identical in terms of fuel storage between the block 42 and 52. Only the Block-60 is an entirely different beast( needed to accommodate the various additional avionics and completely different engine).

The MLU's can in theory carry all weapons that the block-52 can. The true difference beside the newer airframe and increased fuel capacity is the internal carriage of the AIDEWS system that the MLU will carry in a pod, and certain extra tronica thingies that the MLU's do not have. Whatever the public perception, one should not underestimate what is under the hood of the Block-52's. They are possibly still the most advanced aircraft operating in the theatre for now.

 

[Armstrong]

The MLU's can in theory carry all weapons that the block-52 can. The true difference beside the newer airframe and increased fuel capacity is the internal carriage of the AIDEWS system that the MLU will carry in a pod, and certain extra tronica thingies that the MLU's do not have. Whatever the public perception, one should not underestimate what is under the hood of the Block-52's. They are possibly still the most advanced aircraft operating in the theatre for now.

So are you saying that I can make @Dillinger squeal like a girl when I buzz over-head in my Block 52 ?

And why aren't you sending more remittances - We need to buy more Block 52s !

Mazaaak banayaa hovaa haiii tum logooon neiii - $$$ kiyaa darakht pei ugteiii hain ?

Achaa khair jokes aside - A serious question : If you had to put a number on it are the MLUed F-16s perhaps 80% of their Block 52 counterparts ?

And how does the Jf-17 Block 2/3 rate against the Block 52 ? 60% as capable - Less or More ?

 

[SQ8]

So are you saying that I can make @Dillinger squeal like a girl when I buzz over-head in my Block 52 ?

And why aren't you sending more remittances - We need to buy more Block 52s !

Mazaaak banayaa hovaa haiii tum logooon neiii - $$$ kiyaa darakht pei ugteiii hain ?

Achaa khair jokes aside - A serious question : If you had to put a number on it are the MLUed F-16s perhaps 80% of their Block 52 counterparts ?

And how does the Jf-17 Block 2/3 rate against the Block 52 ? 60% as capable - Less or More ?

MLU's are in terms of internal avionics 85% of the Block-52's.(the block-52 mounts the AIDEWS internally).
MLU's are in terms of weapons ability 100% of the block-52's.
MLU's are in terms of airframe 80% of the block-52s.

JF-17 is in terms of avionics some 70% capable as a block-52.
In terms of flight capability it is 80% of the block-52.
In terms of design sophistication it is 50% of a block-52.

 

[nomi007]

@Oscar @fatman17 @Manticore
is paf using dual rackets on its f-16s
like this

 

[Bratva]

GE F-101



The MLU's can in theory carry all weapons that the block-52 can. The true difference beside the newer airframe and increased fuel capacity is the internal carriage of the AIDEWS system that the MLU will carry in a pod, and certain extra tronica thingies that the MLU's do not have. Whatever the public perception, one should not underestimate what is under the hood of the Block-52's. They are possibly still the most advanced aircraft operating in the theatre for now.

AIDEWS which is without DFRM evens the play field and puts it at par with MKI, isn't it ?

36 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites without Digital Radio
Frequency Memory (DRFM) or AN/ALQ-184 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM or AN/ALQ-131 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM or AN/ALQ-187 Advanced Self-Protection Integrated Suites without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-178 Self-Protection Electronic Warfare Suites without DRFM

 

[Kompromat]

AIDEWS for MLUs, is on on order.

 

[Bratva]

AIDEWS for MLUs, is on on order.

are you sure? everywhere the figure quoted is 36

 

[Donatello]

MLU's are in terms of internal avionics 85% of the Block-52's.(the block-52 mounts the AIDEWS internally).
MLU's are in terms of weapons ability 100% of the block-52's.
MLU's are in terms of airframe 80% of the block-52s.

JF-17 is in terms of avionics some 70% capable as a block-52.
In terms of flight capability it is 80% of the block-52.
In terms of design sophistication it is 50% of a block-52.

Thank you for clearing that out, General Admiral Air Chief Marshal Oscar.

 

[SQ8]

AIDEWS which is without DFRM evens the play field and puts it at par with MKI, isn't it ?

Apparently DRFM has been cleared

 

[Bratva]

Apparently DRFM has been cleared

https://timemilitary.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/pakistan_06-10.pdf

Official DSCA notification says so. Clearing DRFM without apparent DSCA notification and with consent of senate which blocked it, It would have caused a shyte storm if DRFM was given bypassing senate, won't it