Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[StormBreaker]

1) They have been upgraded to Blk61

2) GCAS

61 ? Is that a minor upgrade ?

 

[Philip the Arab]

61 ? Is that a minor upgrade ?

View topic - What upgrades make a Block 60 into a Block 61? • F-16.net

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Also check out this tweet made 4 hours ago

https://twitter.com/x/status/1422225280916066305

 

[Blacklight]

61 ? Is that a minor upgrade ?

@SQ8 and @Raider 21 could most probably answer this better.

 

[SQ8]

@SQ8 and @Raider 21 could most probably answer this better.

@StormBreaker Take the block 60 and add the changes that go into the 61. The Aesa on the block-60 is still a generation lower than what is on the block-70/72.

Essentially bringing the block-60 to block-72 standard in terms of avionics which derive from and are compatible with the F-35.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Wrong. The Block 60s, to this day, are far more capable than any subsequent iterations of the Viper.

No. F-16V is more capable, I’m not aware of how deep the Block 61 modernization is but the block 60 predates F-16V by several years. Block 60 is from the early 2000s, F-16V is from the mid 2010s, the radar would not be the same, as mentioned above, but the avionics have been upgraded. I’m sure UAEs specific block 60/61s had some unique features but 15 years of tech gap isn’t easily covered even with an upgrade.

 

[WiderMan]

@StormBreaker Take the block 60 and add the changes that go into the 61. The Aesa on the block-60 is still a generation lower than what is on the block-70/72.

Essentially bringing the block-60 to block-72 standard in terms of avionics which derive from and are compatible with the F-35.

The Block 70/72s are literally souped up Block 50/52s. They are not the most advanced F-16s.

No. F-16V is more capable, I’m not aware of how deep the Block 61 modernization is but the block 60 predates F-16V by several years. Block 60 is from the early 2000s, F-16V is from the mid 2010s, the radar would not be the same, as mentioned above, but the avionics have been upgraded. I’m sure UAEs specific block 60/61s had some unique features but 15 years of tech gap isn’t easily covered even with an upgrade.

That's entirely false. The Block 60’s APG-80 is not a budget AESA, like the SABR or RACR. It has more TRMs, better cooling, significantly more peak power, better range, and not least a terrain following mode that works independently of other modes.

No. F-16V is more capable, I’m not aware of how deep the Block 61 modernization is but the block 60 predates F-16V by several years. Block 60 is from the early 2000s, F-16V is from the mid 2010s, the radar would not be the same, as mentioned above, but the avionics have been upgraded. I’m sure UAEs specific block 60/61s had some unique features but 15 years of tech gap isn’t easily covered even with an upgrade.

Oh, and the Block 61 upgrade fell through eons ago, so please stop bringing it up.

 

[Sifar zero]

How much money and work do we need to make our counterpart to the Raytheon made towed decoy??
And can PAC make such a system with its current R&D capability?

AN/ALE-50 towed decoy system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[iLION12345_1]

The Block 70/72s are literally souped up Block 50/52s. They are not the most advanced F-16s.



That's entirely false. The Block 60’s APG-80 is not a budget AESA, like the SABR or RACR. It has more TRMs, better cooling, significantly more peak power, better range, and not least a terrain following mode that works independently of other modes.




Oh, and the Block 61 upgrade fell through eons ago, so please stop bringing it up.

Ok sir, you must be right, and all the others here must be wrong. 2000s tech versus 2015 tech, surely 2000s tech is better.

I also didn’t claim Block 61 had happened, infact I said the opposite until a few other members corrected me. Go complain to them.
I’ll leave it there.

 

[Trailer23]

@WiderMan @iLION12345_1
Gentlemen, before this turns into another historic [PDF] p!ssing contest - I took the liberty of searching for the appropriate answer..., by a former USAF Pilot*.

Hope it helps & that we come back on Earth with our ol' Block-15's & few Block-52's.

*Richard Crandall , former USAF F-111 and F-15E Pilot at U.S. Air Force (1980-1998)

The APG-80 is the AESA radar on UAE’s Block 60 F-16s while the APG-83 is a Scalable radar that is available to both older F-16s (Block 20 to 50) and the current Block 70 F-16.

The APG-83’s scalable design allows it to be integrated into all F-16s going back to Block 20 as in case of Taiwan. However, performance of a retrofitted APG-83 will be limited by the cooling capacity of the aircraft which was designed for a Mechanical radar. So APG-83 on older F-16s will have lower peak power and therefore, smaller range than APG-80 on Block 60 but its a major performance upgrade for the older F-16s flying with Mechanical radars.

However, it won’t be a problem for APG-83 on Block 70 as it’s a new airframe designed to accommodate the APG-83 radar at its full capacity. Both APG-83 on Block 70 and APG-80 on Block 60 should have very similar performance.

The APG-80 and APG-83 are from the same company (Northrop) that designed F-22 and F-35’s radar and use the same TRM technology (but not the same modules). I suspect the main difference between APG-80 and APG-83 will be in their Air-Ground modes, the APG-83 likely has better SAR resolution and use some of the ground target recognition algorithm in F-35’s radar.

-------------------------------------------

SABR AESA Radar for the F-16

Link: SABR Datasheet

 

[Windjammer]

PAF Air chief Enters The Parade Venue.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=367243888251841

 

[SQ8]

The Block 70/72s are literally souped up Block 50/52s. They are not the most advanced F-16s.



That's entirely false. The Block 60’s APG-80 is not a budget AESA, like the SABR or RACR. It has more TRMs, better cooling, significantly more peak power, better range, and not least a terrain following mode that works independently of other modes.




Oh, and the Block 61 upgrade fell through eons ago, so please stop bringing it up.

They probably don’t need to be .. there is something called the F-35 out now which the manufacturer would like to offer instead.

That being said the AESA and datalink is more advanced than the baseline Block-60.

 

[khanasifm]

@WiderMan @iLION12345_1
Gentlemen, before this turns into another historic [PDF] p!ssing contest - I took the liberty of searching for the appropriate answer..., by a former USAF Pilot*.

Hope it helps & that we come back on Earth with our ol' Block-15's & few Block-52's.

*Richard Crandall , former USAF F-111 and F-15E Pilot at U.S. Air Force (1980-1998)

The APG-80 is the AESA radar on UAE’s Block 60 F-16s while the APG-83 is a Scalable radar that is available to both older F-16s (Block 20 to 50) and the current Block 70 F-16.

The APG-83’s scalable design allows it to be integrated into all F-16s going back to Block 20 as in case of Taiwan. However, performance of a retrofitted APG-83 will be limited by the cooling capacity of the aircraft which was designed for a Mechanical radar. So APG-83 on older F-16s will have lower peak power and therefore, smaller range than APG-80 on Block 60 but its a major performance upgrade for the older F-16s flying with Mechanical radars.

However, it won’t be a problem for APG-83 on Block 70 as it’s a new airframe designed to accommodate the APG-83 radar at its full capacity. Both APG-83 on Block 70 and APG-80 on Block 60 should have very similar performance.

The APG-80 and APG-83 are from the same company (Northrop) that designed F-22 and F-35’s radar and use the same TRM technology (but not the same modules). I suspect the main difference between APG-80 and APG-83 will be in their Air-Ground modes, the APG-83 likely has better SAR resolution and use some of the ground target recognition algorithm in F-35’s radar.

-------------------------------------------

SABR AESA Radar for the F-16

View attachment 767020​

Link: SABR Datasheet

UAE paid for its version and had rights to it to sell to other and it was first of kind commercial deals in the industry anyway there were no buyers and it’s at least decade older than saber , Raytheon and NG competed but NG had traditionally won usaf side while Raytheon on navy like f-18 radar and f-15 latest version

Northrop is basically old Westinghouse radar shop

 

[Windjammer]

New PAF Air chief enters the parade venue in new style.

 

[ghazi52]

Incoming Block - 52

 

[baqai]

Looking forward for the day when Chief decides to come in Bravo