Pakistan can not sell JF-17: China

[ramu]

Friend, beside this single source news from unknown writer we have dozens of Pakistani top officials and Chinese officials claiming that they want to export the JF-17

Show me one such source in the last one month.

 

[All-Green]

The design and development is totally from China. Pakistan has financed the project but the authority is of China not Pakistan. So China can export it not Pakistan.

I seriously doubt you have inside information here so do not assume anything.

While no doubt the great work done by Chinese design team, there were very extensive inputs by the Pakistani engineers and requirements specified by pilots as well, which were all part of design process.

It was a team effort and even if there were 10 good ideas by PAF...it is a worthwhile input.
Considering the fact that PAF has a lot of experience with western systems and their integration into Chinese platforms there are many things that PAF had to share, especially when the requirement was for a highly upgradeable platform.

The news is not authentic and nowhere have i read or heard that there is disagreement on selling and sharing the profit.
However there are other things which have to be sorted out before it is sold to any other country.

1) Desired strategic and security cooperation with the potential buyer.
2) Level of Technology sharing desired by the buyer.
3) Engines.
4) PAF requirement.
5) Integration level with PAF leading to a more defined road map of upgrades/modifications.

Points 3 and 4 shall be a bottleneck for few years at least.
Point 5 is also underway but we have not yet pushed the bird to its limits nor has significant time elapsed to study any weakness, operational stresses or failures.

 

[foxbat]

As far as i remember you said



happy to know that we are on same page about the IP now

Friend, beside this single source news from unknown writer we have dozens of Pakistani top officials and Chinese officials claiming that they want to export the JF-17

I will rather wait for anyone to come up with a credible source for this news before going haywire that JF-17 cant be exported

And thats fine. But this is a report about a top delegation meeting between China and Pak where there were other issues about Sino Pak relations that were reported correctly. So one would tend to believe this part too.

Also about being on the same page about IP, I really dont know either way, since there is no official comment about it. Will be nice if you have some and can link that up. And I am not refering to articles about Pak officials making sales pitches to other countries..

 

[MJaa]

Thanks, my questions are childish. How old are you ? India expressed interest and evaluation of the jets was in the media. Can you show me a country that has actually evaluated JF-17s ?

Your knowledge is so high that you get in to teaching mode. Keep the preaching and teaching to yurself and answer objectively.

Yet another example of your behavior.

My replay was clearly aimed at you answer of why Pakistan hasn't yet scored any exports with a clear cut answer by quoting an example of a purchase process which i know for certain you will be familiar with, purpose of that question was to let you know how long it can take for a deal to happen even when sellers are willing, buyers have money and will to buy.

JF-17 Thunder is in process of its induction in PAF and has just completed two squadrons, and like you implied we have yet to see any reports that JF-17 was in fact evaluated(I am not considering few dignitaries visiting PAC and taking a look at the Thunder as i donnt think that counts) and i too agree that it will be a while before we will see any one evaluating JF-17

PS you raised another point which essentially questions the evaluating of the news report under discussion i.e. how can Pakistan receive offers if JF-17 wasn't evaluated?

 

[MJaa]

Show me one such source in the last one month.

Why this month why not ask for Chinese president to come to TV and explain this to you right now


Zhuhai10: China in talks with several potential JF-17 customers


By Greg Waldron

China is in discussions about selling the Chengdu Aircraft/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex JF-17 Thunder fighter to up to eight countries. The third-generation, single-engine fighter, which was jointly developed by Pakistan and China, is being pitched as a replacement for several existing types. These include the RSK MiG-21, Dassault Mirage 5, Northrop F-5 and Chinese models, such as the Nanchang A-5 and Chengdu F-7.

“We’re talking with six to eight countries about the JF-17,” says Zeng Wen, vice-president of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC), which markets military aircraft overseas on behalf of the country’s manufacturers.

“It is a low cost solution for developing countries.”
Zeng declines to specify which countries are considering the aircraft. Officers from several African air forces, however, were having discussions with CATIC officials at the company’s chalet at Airshow China in Zhuhai. Other countries that could be keen include Egypt, Sri Lanka and Venezuela, all long-time customers for Chinese military aircraft.


Pakistan, China’s “50:50” partner in the project, is playing a big role in helping CATIC market the aircraft abroad, says Zeng. Three Pakistan air force JF-17s, along with a number of other Pakistani aircraft, are in Zhuhai and a JF-17 participated in the flying display. There were also around 170 officials from the service at the show.



Pakistan has confirmed orders for 50 JF-17s, but Zeng feels the south Asian nation could eventually buy up to 200. At the beginning of 2010, Pakistan had 14 operational JF-17s.

China's People’s Liberation Army Air Force has not yet signed up for the fighter, but Zeng says: “We believe the PLAAF will consider the JF-17. They are watching the programme very closely.”

Zeng says CATIC is serious about support, and provides training for both flight crews and maintenance personnel. “During the design phase we also talked with many customers,” he says. “A lot of expertise from Pakistan was also included in the aircraft's design.”

Technology transfer is also on the table, says Zeng, who adds: “If a customer requires technology transfer, then we will do our best to meet their requirements.”

Chinese officials have said in the past that for JF-17 customers, they could set up an assembly line or produce components for the aircraft, just like some Western suppliers. This would include both traditional and non-traditional clients.

"We provide very capable aircraft at a very reasonable price compared to what else there is in the market,” said CATIC president Ma Zhiping recently. “One of the biggest problems for many of our customers is financing. Many are developing countries and their payment abilities are limited. We work with the Chinese government in these cases to help them get cheap credit."

 

[MJaa]

Why this month why not ask for Chinese president to come to TV and explain this to you right now


Zhuhai10: China in talks with several potential JF-17 customers


By Greg Waldron

China is in discussions about selling the Chengdu Aircraft/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex JF-17 Thunder fighter to up to eight countries. The third-generation, single-engine fighter, which was jointly developed by Pakistan and China, is being pitched as a replacement for several existing types. These include the RSK MiG-21, Dassault Mirage 5, Northrop F-5 and Chinese models, such as the Nanchang A-5 and Chengdu F-7.

“We’re talking with six to eight countries about the JF-17,” says Zeng Wen, vice-president of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC), which markets military aircraft overseas on behalf of the country’s manufacturers.

“It is a low cost solution for developing countries.”
Zeng declines to specify which countries are considering the aircraft. Officers from several African air forces, however, were having discussions with CATIC officials at the company’s chalet at Airshow China in Zhuhai. Other countries that could be keen include Egypt, Sri Lanka and Venezuela, all long-time customers for Chinese military aircraft.


Pakistan, China’s “50:50” partner in the project, is playing a big role in helping CATIC market the aircraft abroad, says Zeng. Three Pakistan air force JF-17s, along with a number of other Pakistani aircraft, are in Zhuhai and a JF-17 participated in the flying display. There were also around 170 officials from the service at the show.



Pakistan has confirmed orders for 50 JF-17s, but Zeng feels the south Asian nation could eventually buy up to 200. At the beginning of 2010, Pakistan had 14 operational JF-17s.

China's People’s Liberation Army Air Force has not yet signed up for the fighter, but Zeng says: “We believe the PLAAF will consider the JF-17. They are watching the programme very closely.”

Zeng says CATIC is serious about support, and provides training for both flight crews and maintenance personnel. “During the design phase we also talked with many customers,” he says. “A lot of expertise from Pakistan was also included in the aircraft's design.”

Technology transfer is also on the table, says Zeng, who adds: “If a customer requires technology transfer, then we will do our best to meet their requirements.”

Chinese officials have said in the past that for JF-17 customers, they could set up an assembly line or produce components for the aircraft, just like some Western suppliers. This would include both traditional and non-traditional clients.

"We provide very capable aircraft at a very reasonable price compared to what else there is in the market,” said CATIC president Ma Zhiping recently. “One of the biggest problems for many of our customers is financing. Many are developing countries and their payment abilities are limited. We work with the Chinese government in these cases to help them get cheap credit."

Now please dont tell me that you want a more credible source then Zeng Wen, vice-president of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC).

 

[foxbat]

Why this month why not ask for Chinese president to come to TV and explain this to you right now


Zhuhai10: China in talks with several potential JF-17 customers


By Greg Waldron

China is in discussions about selling the Chengdu Aircraft/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex JF-17 Thunder fighter to up to eight countries. The third-generation, single-engine fighter, which was jointly developed by Pakistan and China, is being pitched as a replacement for several existing types. These include the RSK MiG-21, Dassault Mirage 5, Northrop F-5 and Chinese models, such as the Nanchang A-5 and Chengdu F-7.

“We’re talking with six to eight countries about the JF-17,” says Zeng Wen, vice-president of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC), which markets military aircraft overseas on behalf of the country’s manufacturers.

“It is a low cost solution for developing countries.”
Zeng declines to specify which countries are considering the aircraft. Officers from several African air forces, however, were having discussions with CATIC officials at the company’s chalet at Airshow China in Zhuhai. Other countries that could be keen include Egypt, Sri Lanka and Venezuela, all long-time customers for Chinese military aircraft.


Pakistan, China’s “50:50” partner in the project, is playing a big role in helping CATIC market the aircraft abroad, says Zeng. Three Pakistan air force JF-17s, along with a number of other Pakistani aircraft, are in Zhuhai and a JF-17 participated in the flying display. There were also around 170 officials from the service at the show.



Pakistan has confirmed orders for 50 JF-17s, but Zeng feels the south Asian nation could eventually buy up to 200. At the beginning of 2010, Pakistan had 14 operational JF-17s.

China's People’s Liberation Army Air Force has not yet signed up for the fighter, but Zeng says: “We believe the PLAAF will consider the JF-17. They are watching the programme very closely.”

Zeng says CATIC is serious about support, and provides training for both flight crews and maintenance personnel. “During the design phase we also talked with many customers,” he says. “A lot of expertise from Pakistan was also included in the aircraft's design.”

Technology transfer is also on the table, says Zeng, who adds: “If a customer requires technology transfer, then we will do our best to meet their requirements.”

Chinese officials have said in the past that for JF-17 customers, they could set up an assembly line or produce components for the aircraft, just like some Western suppliers. This would include both traditional and non-traditional clients.

"We provide very capable aircraft at a very reasonable price compared to what else there is in the market,” said CATIC president Ma Zhiping recently. “One of the biggest problems for many of our customers is financing. Many are developing countries and their payment abilities are limited. We work with the Chinese government in these cases to help them get cheap credit."

See the part you marked as Red.. It reinforces that the prime partner is China's CATIC and Pakistan is helping it in marketing the product...

 

[MJaa]

And thats fine. But this is a report about a top delegation meeting between China and Pak where there were other issues about Sino Pak relations that were reported correctly. So one would tend to believe this part too.
.

So you wanna believe this news, Please explain to me how you believe this part

Pakistan has received offers for the sale of the planes about four times more than what these planes cost Pakistan.

Reported price tag of JF-17 varies between $ 15 to 25 million so if we are to believe go by this news report we end up having offers of $60 to 100 million Per JF-17.

Now i ask again do you believe that part too

 

[MJaa]

See the part you marked as Red.. It reinforces that the prime partner is China's CATIC and Pakistan is helping it in marketing the product...

How many airshows are attended my the Chinese side with JF-17s, this alone shows the role of Pakistan in Marketing and i have said this earlier if you cared to read my posts that This is a joint project so sale by one parter or the other will not mean anything as both will get paid as per their share.


Yet it clearly mentioned by non other then the Zeng Wen, vice-president of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) that Pakistan and China are “50:50” partner

 

[foxbat]

So you wanna believe this news, Please explain to me how you believe this part



Reported price tag of JF-17 varies between $ 15 to 25 million so if we are to believe go by this news report we end up having offers of $60 to 100 million Per JF-17.

Now i ask again do you believe that part too

So lets say this 4 times thing is wrong.. So who decides what part of the news is right and what is wrong. How about the launch of the satellite.. or about mutual congratulations on a great relationship or the soft loan...

 

[MJaa]

So lets say this 4 times thing is wrong.. So who decides what part of the news is right and what is wrong. How about the launch of the satellite.. or about mutual congratulations on a great relationship or the soft loan...

We verify all parts against the International media coverage as well as the past reporting to ensure the truth

For example launch of the satellite has been confirmed by many international media outlet reports as well as this


has been reported in the past which tells us that "launch of the satellite" part is true which is certainly not the case with the "Pakistan can not sell JF-17"

 

[Silk]

So lets say this 4 times thing is wrong.. So who decides what part of the news is right and what is wrong. How about the launch of the satellite.. or about mutual congratulations on a great relationship or the soft loan...

Why are some Indians obsessed with these kind of posts. Let us move beyond it. Those childish remarks about soft loans. I think every soft loan is better then that extraordinary pay for Ghoskov. Be honest. What is worser. A friendly soft loan and fast delivery or payments after extra payments and still nothing.

 

[foxbat]

We verify all parts against the International media coverage as well as the past reporting to ensure the truth

For example launch of the satellite has been confirmed by many international media outlet reports as well as this


has been reported in the past which tells us that "launch of the satellite" part is true which is certainly not the case with the "Pakistan can not sell JF-17"

Any news to the effect of any deals being struck with JF 17 in the international media lately (not 6 months old).. The only one i heard was the JF 17 will not fly in the Paris show just like the last year's Fran borough show. Plus this tit bit from Pakistani media. If you co relate, it seems there is something about the plane which China is a little reluctant to publicize..

 

[foxbat]

Why are some Indians obsessed with these kind of posts. Let us move beyond it. Those childish remarks about soft loans. I think every soft loan is better then that extraordinary pay for Ghoskov. Be honest. What is worser. A friendly soft loan and fast delivery or payments after extra payments and still nothing.

Mate, read the whole discussion. It is nothing to do with the loan or aid. Its just listing the topics discussed and debating which may be valid and which not..

 

[MJaa]

So lets say this 4 times thing is wrong

Its just listing the topics discussed and debating which may be valid and which not..

So no more argument about Pakistan having offers of $60 to 100 million Per JF-17

Any news to the effect of any deals being struck with JF 17 in the international media lately (not 6 months old).. The only one i heard was the JF 17 will not fly in the Paris show just like the last year's Fran borough show. Plus this tit bit from Pakistani media. If you co relate, it seems there is something about the plane which China is a little reluctant to publicize..

Editor of the AirForces Monthly, Alan Warnes has confirmed that JF-17 Thunder will be participating in the Izmir air show in Turkey next month along with F-16 fighter jests so one more theory goes into the garbage bag.

Don't worry 24 page long supplement from AFM will be there after June 2 and will clear most of the issues regarding Thunder.