Pakistan buys Chinese subs to counter India 'threats'

[Kompromat]

It is not China bro.....
Agosta 70 in a floating dock.

Is it home?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Is it home?

Yes.

 

[Zarvan]

Which are going to be phased out... although they were upgraded as stop gap measure till the new subs arrrrrive...

P.S: how many indian navy subs have AIPs? not even the ones you are looking for will have them... And how many are actually operational?

Augusta 70 may be phased out not August 90 Sir but even their are news of Pakistan getting August 70 upgraded too

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Augusta 70 may be phased out not August 90 Sir but even their are news of Pakistan getting August 70 upgraded too

There are no plans to phase out Agosta 70's at present.

 

[Pakistanisage]

That is a possiblity. after all the difference between pakistanis and indians is religion. I'm probably the only one here who thinks tech transfer to Pakistan is a no no. Yes, we can build previous weapons for them, but no tech transfer.

I wonder if other Chinese members agree? @cirr, @Chinese-Dragon, @rott, @Martian2, @Shutter

China has become 5th largest exporter of Defence Products because of Pakistan as its customer because 60% of Chinese Defence products are bought by Pakistan. This is the key reason why China Transfers Technology to Pakistan.

You can have an opinion on the subject but that is all it is worth, just your opinion as it is not factored into what happens on the Ground. Chinese Government does not consult people like yourself before they make such decisions, so your opinion is worthless in real terms as it has no impact on the decision making of the Chinese Government.

Pakistan bought 3 subs from France and demanded TOT and got it. We continue to use whatever Source we can find and negotiate the deals that are most advantageous to us. Chinese Government does the same at their end and in the end we are more likely than not to have a meeting of mind and deals are made. Understand that China have a choice to sell us what we need and if we cannot get what we need we have a choice of exploring other choices as most rationale people do.

These are Market realities that have Dynamics of its own which apparently you are not able to Fathom.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China has become 5th largest exporter of Defence Products because of Pakistan as its customer because 60% of Chinese Defence products are bought by Pakistan. This is the key reason why China Transfers Technology to Pakistan.

You can have an opinion on the subject but that is all it is worth, just your opinion as it is not factored into what happens on the Ground. Pakistan bought 3 subs from France and demanded TOT and got it. We continue to use whatever Source we can find and negotiate the deals that are most advantageous to us. You have a choice to sell us what we need or we will explore other choices as most rationale people do.

These are Market realities that have Dynamics of its own which you apparently are not able to Fathom.

There is zero chance of China and Pakistan ever fighting a war against each other, so I don't see any problem with tech transfer to Pakistan. And apparently the Chinese Government agrees, since we have transferred even strategic technology like nuclear and ballistic missile tech to Pakistan before.

Our defence exports will grow regardless, so it doesn't hurt our business either.

 

[Genesis]

The US, England are strategic partners and allies, but they do not share latest tech transfer with one another. US does not offer their newest subs , fighters ,aircraft carrier to their most trusted allies.

there's a few reasons for that, that you are not taking into consideration.

First US tech is literally leading the world, so if they don't want to give it nobody has it.

Second, Chinese tech is mostly not, not always, but in thsi case of submarines, the it's very good, but it's not the best. Handing it over to Pakistan is fine, as they can get it from else where anyways.

Third and perhaps most importantly. most of what the US doesn't transfer UK doesn't want or have it. US doesn't transfer nuclear sub tech, but UK has nuclear sub, US doesn't transfer Gerald Ford or Zumwalt, the UK can't afford these.


China doesn't transfer everything to Pakistan true, but you have to look at what tech, J-20, probably not, but J-10B, why not. type 95 attack sub, probably not, AIP submarine, why not. JL-2 missile, probably not, a shorter range missile why not.

Also, if reports are to be believed we may have played a hand in Pakistan nuclear program, so not transferring sensitive tech? That ship has sailed.

 

[Pakistanisage]

There is zero chance of China and Pakistan ever fighting a war against each other, so I don't see any problem with tech transfer to Pakistan. And apparently the Chinese Government agrees, since we have transferred even strategic technology like nuclear and ballistic missile tech to Pakistan before.

Our defence exports will grow regardless, so it doesn't hurt our business either.

I agree with you 100%. China and Pakistan have been rock solid allies for over 60 years and the relationship continues to grow..

The reason for this solid and ever growing relationship is that the underlying basis of this relationship is very sound which negates the possibility of any conflict between our two countries.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I agree with you 100%. China and Pakistan have been rock solid allies for over 60 years and the relationship continues to grow..

The reason for this solid and ever growing relationship is that the underlying basis of this relationship are very sound which negates the possibility of any conflict between are two countries.

There is simply no geo-strategic conflict between China and Pakistan, we have no territorial disputes, and we are not fighting for geopolitical influence in the region.

In fact, China and Pakistan's geopolitical interests are almost entirely aligned, and both of us stand to gain from the other side becoming stronger, since our interests are complimentary. If Pakistan's influence grows in the region, that benefits us.

China's leaders are smart enough to understand this, which is why China and Pakistan do a lot of "backroom deals" regarding strategic nuclear/ballistic missile technology. Now if that doesn't show the level of TRUST, I don't know what would.

 

[Pakistanisage]

There is simply no geo-strategic conflict between China and Pakistan, we have no territorial disputes, and we are not fighting for geopolitical influence in the region.

In fact, China and Pakistan's geopolitical interests are almost entirely aligned, and both of us stand to gain from the other side becoming stronger, since our interests are complimentary. If Pakistan's influence grows in the region, that benefits us.

China's leaders are smart enough to understand this, which is why China and Pakistan do a lot of "backroom deals" regarding strategic nuclear/ballistic missile technology. Now if that doesn't show the level of TRUST, I don't know what would.

I totally concur. We also have to understand that both China and Pakistan made a strategic choice to develop this strategic relationship and started working on things to support each other, a long time ago. A lot of these actions have a momentum that takes a while to build but once things are set in motion, changes cannot be made on Ad Hoc basis.

For Example, based on their calculations, Chinese government determined to develop Gwadar Port and now plans have been set in motion to build the infrastructure for the Trade and Energy Corridor linking Gwadar to Kashgar. This involved lot of planning and obtaining financing for this ambitious project which will be completed in next 4 to 5 years and involve at least initial investment of nearly 20 Billion dollars. Such plans are not made on an Ad hoc basis and require long term Planning.

All this was done by Chinese Government after giving a lot of thought as to the viability of Strategic Plans. Pakistan is totally committed to supporting the security and integrity of China and vice versa. These are two true Alliances where the national interest coincide quite well.

 

[ziaulislam]

1. As per latest reports the first scropene under project 75 will be delivered in 2016 n the rest will follow with a gap of 9 months each so all 6 should be completed by 2020 most probably.

2. Under the upcoming $12 billion Project 75I, only 6 subs will be purchased n not 12. And the rate of construction in Project 75I will be many times higher in comparison to Project 75 bcoz 2 subs will be procured directly from foreign shipyard while the remaining 4 will be constructed in 2 shipyards in India.

3. At the time of Project 75 MDL didn't had much experience but the experience gained from scorpenes will come handy in Project 75I. Specially if we went for bigger scorpenes.

now when i see it, differnet sources claim different. so u may be right but my source was times of India quoting A K Antony "MDL has assured MoD that one submarine will thereafter roll out every 10-11 months." he said.
Submarine shock: Antony fast-tracks projects - The Times of India

 

[Mav3rick]

INS Chakra 2 and INS Arihant .

Are they in service, as in inducted?

Akula II from Russia(lease) n INS Arihant currently under sea trails.

But none are inducted, right?

 

[kurup]

Are they in service, as in inducted?

INS Chakra 2 is in service while INS Arihant is readying for sea trials .

 

[Yogi]

Are they in service, as in inducted?



But none are inducted, right?

Akula II aka INS Charkra is already in service while Arihant is in sea trails.

 

[Bilal.]

The US, England are strategic partners and allies, but they do not share latest tech transfer with one another. US does not offer their newest subs , fighters ,aircraft carrier to their most trusted allies.

They share pretty much everything except for some stealth tech since until very recently only US possessed it and did not want anyone else to gain to uphold their absolute supremacy.