Pakistan alleges role of US behind No Confidence Vote against PTI government

[Zowais]

The word.... PROBABLY ... In your post is what I'm counting on.

See, despite it being looking like a duck, swimming like a duck and quacking like a duck, still you aren't sure... That's why you said that it PROBABLY is a duck.

Seeing is believing but not everytime.

Sir, i have always been under the impression that, primarily, its political leadership crisis that keeps Pakistan on its knees before the international establishment. In last few weeks, i have felt, i have been wrong.

We aren't sure its duck, because we have always believed its not a duck. But after seeing, what we all are seeing, there's no reason left not believing its duck. Though its assessment, you may call it a verdict.

The human resource of all departments comes from the same pool. Departmental environment may influence to some (or even large) extent, but while police, wapda, judiciary etc. always have few good men in their top ranks, PA also may have people otherwise.
Let's call a duck, a duck.

 

[Menace2Society]

Global media are beginning to recognize foreign countries are attempting to trigger a regime change in Pakistan. And we have Pakistanis who either don't believe, don't care or are batting for the wrong team.

I can see why Pakistan is the way it is. No other country would tolerate it, even the smallest of island countries wouldn't. This is not BAU.

It doesn't matter what you think of IK, this has become a matter of your sovereignty. This is the equivalent of a declaration of war, no difference. Try this stunt in the US and watch you get nuked into oblivion.

 

[TheSolution]

Global media are beginning to recognize foreign countries are attempting to trigger a regime change in Pakistan. And we have Pakistanis who either don't believe, don't care or are batting for the wrong team.

I can see why Pakistan is the way it is. No other country would tolerate it, even the smallest of island countries wouldn't. This is not BAU.

It doesn't matter what you think of IK, this has become a matter of your sovereignty. This is the equivalent of a declaration of war, no difference. Try this stunt in the US and watch you get nuked into oblivion.

Pakistanis are spineless with no ethics or morals

 

[TNT]

dude, I can give you dozens of examples where it is not true - recently look at turkey
it wasn't just a letter there- they literally planned a military coup to the letter T - Turkey is still a Nato ally and asking US for weaponry
by all means they are the biggest baigharats than...

But turks did foil the attempt. No one is asking for end of relations, we want end of slavery. Buy weapons, do trade but from an independent position.

 

[pkuser2k12]

But turks did foil the attempt. No one is asking for end of relations, we want end of slavery. Buy weapons, do trade but from an independent position.

inhi k baray mayn ghulam Shahbaz Sharif kehta hay beggar canot be choosers aur ye agay say de tali karty hayn

 

[denel]

Oh please !

The real donkey is sitting in Tehran

All ... Great addition to the collection.. I feel bad... donkeys are good;

Turkey have also suffered setbacks due to some of the decisions made by Erdogan. These setbacks include exclusion from F-35 program and Turkish economic situation is not good either.

The Turkish Lira’s Freefall And The Bitcoin Parachute

As the national currency of Turkey continues to plummet, Bitcoin represents an escape hatch for citizens looking to preserve wealth.

bitcoinmagazine.com

On a broader level:

1. GDP per capita is 46% lower than OECD best performers.
2. Inequality is higher than in most advanced economies.
3. More than 3/4 of the population is exposed to harmful levels of air pollution.

Türkiye Economic Snapshot - OECD

www.oecd.org

Turkey is not living up to its economic and geopolitical potential in the present.

Erdogan is also facing political opposition in the country.

Turkey opposition leaders debate how to end Erdogan's 'one man rule'

The opposition wants to find a way to reform the 2017 executive presidential system, which greatly expanded Erdogan's powers at the expense of the PM and parliament.

www.euronews.com

Turkey's opposition leader looks to emerge from Erdogan's shadow

By Orhan Coskun, Ali Kucukgocmen and Jonathan Spicer ANKARA (Reuters) - A veteran Turkish political leader who has struggled for years to have President Tayyip Erdogan voted out of office says it is "very clear" that his dream is drawing nearer, even as doubts remain about whether he will be the...

www.swissinfo.ch

- - - -

Some countries are better off with checks-and-balances for DAMAGE CONTROL and COURSE CORRECTION due to internal political instability. Judiciary and Military can provide these checks-and-balances in theory. Pakistan have a lengthy history of political instability because this country is known to produce egotistical leaders on average.

100% agree; he has gone overboard with his cronnism. They had excellent ministers but he kept on removing anyone better than him.

Very insecure personality.

However, if we look at the progress overall. Industrial capacity in every level since AKP came to power has been quantum from R&D, Sciences, manufacturing, etc. If you had travelled back to turkey 30 years ago and a few years ago; the progress is at a blistering pace.

On other areas - AKP - women's rights; just have to ask any woman there - they have now become an integral part of society; previously any one wearing a head scarf was banned from any work place.

However, he needs to step aside and let newer AKP people take the helm.

 

[Joe Shearer]

A Whiteman obsession of Sub-continent never ends @Joe Shearer

Normally, I don't comment on Pakistan's internal affairs (the way I define it) or on Pakistani politics.
Since you raised the point, I see that you are a remarkably well-read person. Whose book did you prefer, that of Sarila or of Olaf Caroe?

 

[Big_bud]

...and i believe i told there and then that it was to be taken with a pinch of salt, that it was all in a lighter mood.

Thats the problem prevalent here at PDF at the moment as far as the current crisis is concerned. Everyone is just wanting what they want to believe.

The amount of abuse and name-calling which is being hurled at the PA is just beyond me. I cant let myself be pulled into a name-calling match. That would embarrass me, no one else.


You will see the fruits of this strategy shortly. Dont loose hope.

One thing deeply engraved in any army man is to stay quiet and obey orders of the military chief/ senior whatsoever. I have seen that army struggles to find its way when faced by a moral dilemma. While this sort of mental training is crucial for maintaining discipline in the battle field, I wonder where this subordination disappears when it comes to showing loyalty to the executive head of the state?

I am disappointed that left right and centre, the very people from our forces we love. Are unable to call a spade a spade. Privately they are all expressing their frustrations. But as soon as camera turns on or its a public forum, they become very diplomatic. Inside they are all feeling angry. Its a concerning situation for me as an observer and a Pakistani.

 

[Sayfullah]

First, lets see what happens tomorrow.....

Solution to the problem:
Air chief does coup and becomes chief Marshall law administrator.
I mean army had their chances and political parties had their chances it’s only fair now air chief gets to be president!

President of Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Zaheer Ahmad Babar Sidhu

 

[blain2]

Dude you don't need any of these defence equipment. U just need strength in your knees. Look at Ukraine vs Russia.

Yes, look at Ukraine, equipped with 17,000 "American/British" Javelins, NLAWs, Stingers, and countless other small arms, and many US/British SF embedded in their Ukrainian units. Strength in knees is needed, but you also need a good weapon in hand.

Military will keep on living without its fans. Its the fans' choice what they like to think and believe. Haste makes waste afterall.

PK, its no use. It is Immaturity galore on PDF right now.

This is what worries me, Army as an institution cannot be held hostage by anyone including the COAS. Anti army sentiments have never been so high and this is what is a cause of concern. You see if the army loses the support of its own people, it won't be able to do its job which it is meant for and forgive me for saying this but Bajwa isn't helping to dispel this impression. In fact, he is doing contrary to this. His statements in favor of the US when the army itself has accepted that the sitting government and sitting PM were indeed threatened, puts the entire institution at odds with its own government as well as its own people. I hope you understand.

The Army is preserving Pakistan even as a demarche is submitted. The country has to go on. The bills have to be paid.

Friendly ones get DHA plots?


Hence my earlier comment that the Army needs to take one for the team to which @blain2 responded in a negative.

My context was different. In general, the army has been taking it for the team for the past 20 years.

 

[blain2]

The opposition are the same faces who have a track record of 30 years of malpractice and corruption. Atleast put fresh faces on show. Your COAS can barely communicate. Only reason Zarb e Azb happened is because an army school was targeted. They did nothing during the hundreds of drone strikes and terrorist incidents. Took no action. We all know on which side their bread is buttered.

The army elite, judiciary and politicians all need a purge. Enough is enough

And you will do that? Talk is cheap and this same "do annay wali" talk has been going on in Pakistan since the last 50 years.

"Your CoAS"? So if it isn't your CoAS, why so much interest and all the beying for blood?

 

[blain2]

Presumption of innocence​

If the Army is really neutral, then they deserve an apologise from the anti military sentiments here, if there are really hard proofs, which can be brought and justified in Court against the army, then the Military doesn’t deserve the budget which it gets. At the moment I don’t see any broken law. Pakistan is a nuclear armed country and for its defensive, it does not need this huge modernisation which it is undergoing. This money could be spent on education and infrastructure. But if it’s really what @PanzerKiel is saying that everyone is eyewashes and emotional then, it’s again a lecture for the people of Pakistan and the world, that the Pakistani Military is a institution which nobody should mess, then they deserve the respect and budget. Neutrality of the military is not an assault on the government it’s their duty. But again if we it comes to light, that the military had ist share in torpedoing the current government of PTI, then it’s shame, and the army deserves not the budget which it is getting, all the divisions and brigades are useless, for defending Pakistan the military don’t need this huge arsenal. No need for insulting and conspiracy against the Pakistan Army till it’s court proven that they have broken the law. "Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit" redirects here. For burden of proof in law in general, see Burden of proof (law).

What are you folks going on about?

What can the army do beyond the demarche sent by the GoP?

You want to cut the ties with the US? Let the GoP make that call. Is it doing that now? No. Why? Because everyone in the GoP (inclusive of the establishment) have done an analysis on what is feasible for the country and what it isn't and a measured response has been sent to external entities. What needs to be done with the locals, as involved, is an article 6 proceeding.

As such the result is a delicate balance. If article 6 needs to be applied to some politicians, it is the job of the law ministry under the GoP. Again, not the job of the military.

What does Pakistan being a nuclear armed country mean? So tomorrow India launches an air strike again, you want Pakistan to respond with nuclear weapons? This is where the money on the conventional deterrence is being spent. The nice fairy-tale stories about "instead spend on education and infrastructure" are just that, stories.

What is the proof that the military in any way "torpedoed" the PTI government? Why would they? Did the military pay the bastards in PTI to become lotay?
The issue is with the SCP now so why would the military step in with an extra-constitutional measure by forcing PTI to stay in power? Come tomorrow the others will start doubling down on "selected" nonsense even more with solid proof.

If Pakistan's military was trying to save the country they would :-

1. Kick out the US ambassador for meddling in Pakistan's internal politics
2. Lock up the politicians in assembly until they have resolved their differences
3. Keep an eye out on India incase of a surprise attack
4. Round up all the traitors who steal money from Pakistan state and send them to the firing squad.

None of the above is the military's job except #3 for which they are ready.

#1, clearly a GoP/Foreign Office job. Why have they not done it?
#2, This is not the jungle. You have to prove article 6 charges against the politicians involved. There is a due process. The Army cannot just go and arrest NS, AZ and many other national leaders who have significant supporters. It will become a massive law enforcement/security problem.
#4, Again, the job of the courts and not the army.

Respectfully, I am amazed with the quality of posts being shared here.

 

[HRK]

When there are mir jaffar and mir sadiq in our ranks then we shouldnt blame some third party. Why is it that always our generals and politicians get sold? Why every general turn out to be an American pithu in the end? General bajwa parroted same words which PMLN leaders have been parroting. He is at the core of it all.

at the time of selection NS made a criteria & Dawn news shared a news report about that personal criteria of NS for the appointment of Army Chief if possible read that news article.

it was shared by many members here on this forum as well

 

[Big_bud]

Severe divide in both current and ex-military men with current leadership of Bajwa!

 

[Cash GK]

Final battle khan vs America. Very well explained.

Lt General Muhammad Haroon Aslam(Retd)