Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Discussed to death EF is expensive to operate and those of tranch 1 are seemingly expensive to update for multirole (rather than air Superiority) last high chances if sanctions more than uncle sam, you sneez here and germans will sanction you

British did uodated their tranche 1 for 5-10 million for decent a2g roles(block 5 trench 1 had same FOC as trench 2-3) There are plenty of EF lying around in every country (england, austria, spain etc)..if the price drops to sub 40m and PAF has enough money to get 60 odd than it looks to be good aircraft but just don't sneez otherwise germans will block it

Sir,
EFT Tranche I = Air superiority.
EFT is expensive to operate as it has twin engines, this logic does not count when it is based on what it can achieve.

Over the years PAF operated various twin engine aircraft, however some good or bad decision lead PAF to remove them by premature retirement which left behind a void in capabilities. Till this day since 1965 PAF has never recovered form the loss of air superiority it faced once F-104's were grounded, this was felt in 5 years time. PAF did try to address this by a concept of aerial deniability by inducting Mirrage III and V which are till date operational (40 years).

Some seniors still criticize that the induction of these Mirages
(a) could have come earlier and
(b) them being stationed not just in WEST PAKISTAN but in EAST PAKISTAN with an offensive role could have had a different out come all together.

B-57 Canberra
This was a Twin engined deep strike bomber which was once again retired without adequate replacement. Till date PAF lacks a decent strike platform.

Made shifts that were introduced were F-7s and F-5 both were Twin engine aircraft, both have been retired with limited numbers of JF-17.

GOP can generate no more that $200 million per year for operational costs of a twin engine aircraft and give this to PAF, not a high price of having Freedom of Independence for the citizens of Pakistan.

 

[Trailer23]

The country is begging for loans and grants to pay short term debt and folks here have a wish list

Agreed...

But isn't there a Defense Budget that separates from the Nation Budget. I always assumed that regardless of what the country requires to stay afloat...economically (Petrol, Trade, Education, Health etc.) - it doesn't compromise with the Dept. of Defense.

I recall Minister of Information (Fawad Chaudry) bringing it up in one of his Press Briefs recently. If I find it, i'll attach the link.

 

[ziaulislam]

Sir,
EFT Tranche I = Air superiority.
EFT is expensive to operate as it has twin engines, this logic does not count when it is based on what it can achieve.

Over the years PAF operated various twin engine aircraft, however some good or bad decision lead PAF to remove them by premature retirement which left behind a void in capabilities. Till this day since 1965 PAF has never recovered form the loss of air superiority it faced once F-104's were grounded, this was felt in 5 years time. PAF did try to address this by a concept of aerial deniability by inducting Mirrage III and V which are till date operational (40 years).

Some seniors still criticize that the induction of these Mirages
(a) could have come earlier and
(b) them being stationed not just in WEST PAKISTAN but in EAST PAKISTAN with an offensive role could have had a different out come all together.

B-57 Canberra
This was a Twin engined deep strike bomber which was once again retired without adequate replacement. Till date PAF lacks a decent strike platform.

Made shifts that were introduced were F-7s and F-5 both were Twin engine aircraft, both have been retired with limited numbers of JF-17.

GOP can generate no more that $200 million per year for operational costs of a twin engine aircraft and give this to PAF, not a high price of having Freedom of Independence for the citizens of Pakistan.

trench 1 update 5 can carry all air to ground weapons and pods as any other trench ..ot has same FOC certification ..there might be some deficiencies but its a prettyuch multirole ..however the update and cost of used aircraft's it self is pretty high..i doubt PAF can Get them less thsn 80 m making them a very expensive option ..than there is the issue of us sneezing and getting an embargo

 

[SQ8]

Flow fields, vortex flow control & latency of vortex breakdown is impressive at low AoA. Just a mini F16 but overall significantly inferior to FC1.

Its a potent WVR fighter for which they used a off boresight system as well reportedly; makes it a good close in kill system. Still obsolete as such by today’s standards

 

[Readerdefence]

Discussed to death EF is expensive to operate and those of tranch 1 are seemingly expensive to update for multirole (rather than air Superiority) last high chances if sanctions more than uncle sam, you sneez here and germans will sanction you

British did uodated their tranche 1 for 5-10 million for decent a2g roles(block 5 trench 1 had same FOC as trench 2-3) There are plenty of EF lying around in every country (england, austria, spain etc)..if the price drops to sub 40m and PAF has enough money to get 60 odd than it looks to be good aircraft but just don't sneez otherwise germans will block it

Hi zia can you elaborate why Germans are not blocking Saudi EF upgradition and overhauling
As on number of occasions they have put up arms embargo against Saudis
Thank you

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Actually mushy cancelled the J10 procurement

Mushy approved the purchase of 36 F-16 Block-52+ and 36 FC-20 (J-10A).

However, due to a lack of funding in 2009-2013, the PAF had to walk away from the 36 FC-20 (and the optional 18 F-16 Block-52+). Basically, no new fighters aside from the JF-17.

In November 2016, Jane's reported that the PAF was looking for 30-40 new fighters to serve as a bridge to the Next-Gen Fighter. The Su-35 and J-10 were the leading options.

If the new fighter program is still happening, then I imagine it'll be tied into Project Azm (e.g., offset into Aviation City). One plausible outcome is convincing China to sell 40 J-10Cs and then tying up with Chengdu to work on a joint PLAAF-PAF lightweight 5th gen fighter.

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi zia can you elaborate why Germans are not blocking Saudi EF upgradition and overhauling
As on number of occasions they have put up arms embargo against Saudis
Thank you

because saudis pumps 11 million barrel oil per day....
money talks...
why do you think no body cares what Israel or india does..india blinded 100s of people no body cared..

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

trench 1 update 5 can carry all air to ground weapons and pods as any other trench ..ot has same FOC certification ..there might be some deficiencies but its a prettyuch multirole ..however the update and cost of used aircraft's it self is pretty high..i doubt PAF can Get them less thsn 80 m making them a very expensive option ..than there is the issue of us sneezing and getting an embargo

Sir,
In my earlier post I specifically quoted what are PAF's Requirements i.e Air Superiority.
In that role the Tranche 1 do not need any upgrades for the time being i.e Short term 5-10 years.
NB: This is if Project AZM is really progressing at its ideal pace, however, might not be possible.

As far as I know update 5 required wings to be strengthened (New wings) along with other modifications. The delay in its research meant costs increased but now have significantly reduced due to demands from Middle East along with Germany (which is in the process of upgrading their entire fleet along with capability to fire US made Nuclear Arsenal).

PAF would have F-16 & JF-17 available for dedicated ground strike roles with EFT's giving them Top Cover.

Remember the initial offer by BAE Systems to India for 126 aircraft was for $7 Billion which included a new production facility. This comes down to $55.5 million. These were Tranche 2 aircraft that did not include AESA radars.

The issue of USA embargoing sales by European Union once signed prior would never be accepted by the European Parliament or European Court of Justice.

You already have seen this in case of Iran.

Hi zia can you elaborate why Germans are not blocking Saudi EF upgradition and overhauling
As on number of occasions they have put up arms embargo against Saudis
Thank you

The German Parliament can not enforce a trade embargo on deas already in effect as European Court of Justice would never tolerate retrospective effect. This can be seen with the case of Iran

because saudis pumps 11 million barrel oil per day....
money talks...
why do you think no body cares what Israel or india does..india blinded 100s of people no body cared..

Its not just money. There are other factors too.

One plausible outcome is convincing China to sell 40 J-10Cs and then tying up with Chengdu to work on a joint PLAAF-PAF lightweight 5th gen fighter.

Sir,
With due respect I would like to ask why PAF is once again going to repeat its mistakes. If PAF purchases J-10's then it will one again have a single source once F-16's are embargoed. China though a strategic partner / all weather friend / brother what ever one may call it can also act against in the time of need by saying not this time sorry.

Light weight 5th Gen PLAAF does not need nor dose PLAAN. They have already showcased J-31 as a light weight 5th Generation aircraft for export. Unfortunately no one is willing to purchase it.

The only way possible For PAF to procure 5th Gen aircraft is through Turkey provided TFX wishes to provide the single engine design and technical knowledge.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Sir,
With due respect I would like to ask why PAF is once again going to repeat its mistakes. If PAF purchases J-10's then it will one again have a single source once F-16's are embargoed. China though a strategic partner / all weather friend / brother what ever one may call it can also act against in the time of need by saying not this time sorry.

Light weight 5th Gen PLAAF does not need nor dose PLAAN. They have already showcased J-31 as a light weight 5th Generation aircraft for export. Unfortunately no one is willing to purchase it.

The only way possible For PAF to procure 5th Gen aircraft is through Turkey provided TFX wishes to provide the single engine design and technical knowledge.

Those are all valid concerns, but Pakistan's reliance on China (and to an extent, Europe and the US) stems from our inability to produce core systems such as gas turbines, semi-conductors, aviation grade steel, etc. We want to make radars and planes, but without mastery of the core stuff, we'll always rely on someone -- due to our lack of funding, that source is mostly China.

 

[fatman17]

GJ-2 Wing Loong II


It was first unveiled inSeptember 2015 that a bigger and more powerful variantcalled Wing Loong II (WD-2K/GJ-2?) was under development at the 611 Institute and GAAC. It is powered by a new turboprop engine (WJ-9? 456kW) and can carry up to 12 ATGMs. Its MTOW is 4,200kg, max external load is 480kg, max speed is 370km/hr, ceilingis 9,000m, endurance is 20hr. The UCAV also has an SAR radar installed in its nose for acquiring ground target in poor weather conditions. A small datalink antenna for guiding missiles was also installed underneath the starboard side of the forward fuselage. The maiden flight of the 01 prototype took place on February 27, 2017.Wing Loong II was speculated to have beenordered by PLAAF, UAE, Saudi Arabia (300?), and possibly Egypt. Recent images (December 2017) indicated that Wing Long IIhas been undergoing weapon integration tests by launching various GPS/laser/IR guided air-to-air, air-to-surface missiles and bombs. A recent satellite image (October 2017) suggested that UAE has acquired the first batch of Wing Loong II UCAV. The latest news (October 2018) claimed that Pakistan plans to produce 48 Wing Loong II under licence at PAC Kamra. The latest image (November 2018) indicated that Wing Loong II has entered the service with PLAAF as GJ-2.

- Last Updated 11/2/18

 

[M16174]

Did any one find Jf-17 blk3 design clue from PAF song.
Aye watan Song by Paf, in which the aeronautical Engineer watches the computer screens displaying aircraft blue prints in PAC kamra.

Animation Looks bit familiar to f-18 in 1st screen but in second one you can see f16 and Jf-17-blk 3 with two rudders.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

View attachment 512678 New PAF fighter jet unveiling on 29th of this month.
PAF said in a programme regarding negotiations with Russia on Su-35 but J-10b was also kept in view.
Do you think so PAF can buy a fleet with its limited budget ?

JF-17 B variant induction most probably

Did any one find Jf-17 blk3 design clue from PAF song.
Aye watan Song by Paf, in which the aeronautical Engineer watches the computer screens displaying aircraft blue prints in PAC kamra.

Animation Looks bit familiar to f-18 in 1st screen but in second one you can see f16 and Jf-17-blk 3 with two rudders.



View attachment 514988 View attachment 514989 View attachment 514990

Damn

 

[M16174]

JF-17 B variant induction most probably


Damn

Friend if you observe the last picture, it's neither f18, look at elevons, its jf17.
and nor jf17 b, look, its one seat.
and intake is under fuselage I think.

 

[Trailer23]

Did any one find Jf-17 blk3 design clue from PAF song.
Aye watan Song by Paf, in which the aeronautical Engineer watches the computer screens displaying aircraft blue prints in PAC kamra.

Animation Looks bit familiar to f-18 in 1st screen but in second one you can see f16 and Jf-17-blk 3 with two rudders.

In the movie business they call them 'Easter Eggs', but it seems more likely that its just 3D Max/Maya mixed with Adobe After Effects.

It would have been more believable had they not of been...acting.

 

[M16174]

In the movie business they call them 'Easter Eggs', but it seems more likely that its just 3D Max/Maya mixed with Adobe After Effects.

It would have been more believable had they not of been...acting.

definitely it was an acting. but don't you really think so that they would have downloaded such big size software for just a blue print display for 3-4 seconds, and that within a song. !!!!!!
I just want to say, that the man in song just opened the aircraft design file present in the system to pretend like an engineer .

Might i be wrong, but the design of an aircraft in last picture stimulates me to think of blk 3.