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Pakistan: A slice of China in Islamabad

My facts are straight.

We gave Shaksgam Valley to China.

Shaksgam Valley was part of the Kashmir Princely state.


For starters:

From these facts, he was clear, Gen. Raza said that: “Firstly, the original claim, which the British made on a portion of the Tagdambash Pamir in 1899, had definitely been dropped. Secondly Shaksgam Valley was never included in various British claims and on the contrary when the British wanted to go to the Shaksgam Valley for survey, they asked for a visa from the Chinese Government; and consequently there was never any idea of exchanging the Shaksgam Valley for Tagdambash Pamir. India did not claim the Tagdsambash Pamir in the line it gave to China during their talks in 1960.


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what...-know-the-sino-pak-boundary-agreement.310842/
 
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China doesn't have a claim in Gilgit Baltistan.

Thats pure bullcrap.

Some Indian posting bullcrap.

I wonder where the mods are.
 
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LOL going to wikipedia.

The Hunza were part of the Kashmir princely state.

The Hunzas acceded to Pakistan.

China has no claim on Gilgit-Baltistan.

Nice try though. :D

Read my post. I had said clearly that the vassal status of this and other Pamir emirates created a claim which the Chinese might take up at any future date. That claim is not extinguished by their present friendly relationship with Pakistan.

Second, if the Hunza were part of the Kashmir princely state, by the accession of the state to India, Hunza should have become part of India. It was the mutiny engineered by a British Major, Major Brown, that led to these territories acceding to Pakistan.

Third, stop thinking in terms of Pakistani categories; nobody said anything about China having any claim to Baltistan. The position on Baltistan was governed by the Ladakhi-Dogra-Tibetan-Chinese treaty that defined the territorial integrity of Ladakh. The question of a Chinese claim to northern territory is restricted to the Pamir Emirates only, and only to those that acknowledged the suzerainty of Kashgar, prior to their conquest by the British and the Dogra regime, sometimes jointly, sometimes singly.

And keep your grins to yourself. This is not a dick measuring contest.

Historically Gilgit.baltistan as a whole region did not have much relations with china only the princely states of hunza and nagar were in contacts with them and not on very good terms there used to be a lot of killing around the border areas for land grabbing and in fact Pakistan has more credible claims of land in xingyang then china in pakistan. Also there is not much of a Chinese footprint here in gilgit baltistsn heck even islamabad has more Chinese footprint that GB ..

It is not about footprints; it is about historical claims to suzerainty which remain intact, right through the friendship that is prevalent.

There were times when some princly states such as hunza did give their oath of loyalty to chinese kingdoms there but they were mere ways to ensure their survival.

Rather more than that. It is recorded in greater detail than in this meagre Wikipedia article what influence Kashgar had over these Pamir Emirates, and how the last Emir of, Yassin, I think it was, emigrated there when he found himself powerless.

P.s i have seen many Indians talking about chinese having some kind of military encampment here in GB (which is utterly baseless and idiotic) ..and about Chinese taking over gb which will never happen in a million years.

Again, this has nothing to do with a rumoured Chinese military presence, and has nothing to do with claims made. It is about the possibility of claims being made at a future point of time.
 
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Read my post. I had said clearly that the vassal status of this and other Pamir emirates created a claim which the Chinese might take up at any future date. That claim is not extinguished by their present friendly relationship with Pakistan.

Second, if the Hunza were part of the Kashmir princely state, by the accession of the state to India, Hunza should have become part of India. It was the mutiny engineered by a British Major, Major Brown, that led to these territories acceding to Pakistan.

Third, stop thinking in terms of Pakistani categories; nobody said anything about China having any claim to Baltistan. The position on Baltistan was governed by the Ladakhi-Dogra-Tibetan-Chinese treaty that defined the territorial integrity of Ladakh. The question of a Chinese claim to northern territory is restricted to the Pamir Emirates only, and only to those that acknowledged the suzerainty of Kashgar, prior to their conquest by the British and the Dogra regime, sometimes jointly, sometimes singly.

And keep your grins to yourself. This is not a dick measuring contest.



It is not about footprints; it is about historical claims to suzerainty which remain intact, right through the friendship that is prevalent.



Rather more than that. It is recorded in greater detail than in this meagre Wikipedia article what influence Kashgar had over these Pamir Emirates, and how the last Emir of, Yassin, I think it was, emigrated there when he found himself powerless.



Again, this has nothing to do with a rumoured Chinese military presence, and has nothing to do with claims made. It is about the possibility of claims being made at a future point of time.

Nice try, but the Kashmiris were rebelling against the Maharaja before the instrument of accession.

Nice try though :D

I will use emoticons. Who they heck are you to tell me what I can and can't do on a Pakistani forum :D
 
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Nice try, but the Kashmiris were rebelling against the Maharaja before the instrument of accession.

Nice try though :D

I will use emoticons. Who they heck are you to tell me what I can and can't do on a Pakistani forum :D

That some portions of the princely state were in rebellion before the Instrument of Accession in no way extinguishes the Maharaja's right to restore order and resume control.

As for your unquenchable desire to use emoticons, it is natural; in the absence of logic, reason and facts, emoticons fill a vacuum. Do continue to use these and proclaim your bankruptcy of facts.
 
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You idiot, if that was true we would have given Gilgit to China.

We gave China Shaksgam Valley because it historically belonged to the Qing dynasty, and the Qing dynasty never agreed to anything to the British did.

Gilgit is Pakistani territory and not Chinese territory.
Kindly abstain from personal attacks. Instead, engage in logical arguments. The guy is a senior contributor to the forum.
 
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I think we did shaksgam valley was in the END of the British rule part of shigar and somewhat hunza state.
But there was lots of fighting over it as being a prime pasture land it was always reclaimed again and again by both sides

The boundary now agreed upon between China and Pakistan coincided exactly with the line which covered the maximum territory which the British were to claim as late as 1939.

Shaksgam valley was never under the effective control of the British or (the successor state i.e.) Pakistan. Shaksgam Valley was never included in various British claims and on the contrary when the British wanted to go to the Shaksgam Valley for survey, they asked for a visa from the Chinese Government. Almost every neutral scholar holds that it was Pakistan which acquired 750 sq. miles of administered territory.
 
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Read my post. I had said clearly that the vassal status of this and other Pamir emirates created a claim which the Chinese might take up at any future date. That claim is not extinguished by their present friendly relationship with Pakistan.

Second, if the Hunza were part of the Kashmir princely state, by the accession of the state to India, Hunza should have become part of India. It was the mutiny engineered by a British Major, Major Brown, that led to these territories acceding to Pakistan.

Third, stop thinking in terms of Pakistani categories; nobody said anything about China having any claim to Baltistan. The position on Baltistan was governed by the Ladakhi-Dogra-Tibetan-Chinese treaty that defined the territorial integrity of Ladakh. The question of a Chinese claim to northern territory is restricted to the Pamir Emirates only, and only to those that acknowledged the suzerainty of Kashgar, prior to their conquest by the British and the Dogra regime, sometimes jointly, sometimes singly.

And keep your grins to yourself. This is not a dick measuring contest.



It is not about footprints; it is about historical claims to suzerainty which remain intact, right through the friendship that is prevalent.



Rather more than that. It is recorded in greater detail than in this meagre Wikipedia article what influence Kashgar had over these Pamir Emirates, and how the last Emir of, Yassin, I think it was, emigrated there when he found himself powerless.



Again, this has nothing to do with a rumoured Chinese military presence, and has nothing to do with claims made. It is about the possibility of claims being made at a future point of time.

As i said Pakistan has more claims in Chinese teritory than china .. states such as hunza were never part of any chinese empire rather they only gave an oath of loyalty to them... Which does not make their claim credible.. their claim ended whenthe british took over most of the princly states making them part of British india ..and before chinese claim heck even Tajikistan can claim to GB as it was part of greater badakshan province... But the fact is that the areas now GB were part of British India and cannot be claimed by china
 
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The boundary now agreed upon between China and Pakistan coincided exactly with the line which covered the maximum territory which the British were to claim as late as 1939.

Shaksgam valley was never under the effective control of the British or (the successor state i.e.) Pakistan. Shaksgam Valley was never included in various British claims and on the contrary when the British wanted to go to the Shaksgam Valley for survey, they asked for a visa from the Chinese Government. Almost every neutral scholar holds that it was Pakistan which acquired 750 sq. miles of administered territory.

True. Pakistan did a perfect deal for Pakistan when it settled its boundary issues with China.

For more about Pakistani agreement with China about its border and Shaksgam valley, I had a very comprehensive debate with bharatis and proved that Pakistan did the right deal with China and actually got land it didn't administer as compared to the notion that Pakistan gave shaksgam valley to China. @Iqbal Ali can read more about this deal here:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-failed-kashmir-in-ajk.440769/
 
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"A lot of [Pakistanis] walk in and are shocked … they see everything in Chinese here, and wonder perhaps if they've arrived in Beijing," says Rizwan Hassan, a manager at the store.

Hassan and business partner Eraj Raza have been working with Chinese nationals on infrastructure projects for the last seven years, and set up this store about six months ago.

Did anyone read this? Chinese super market is owned by Pakistani.
 
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That some portions of the princely state were in rebellion before the Instrument of Accession in no way extinguishes the Maharaja's right to restore order and resume control.

As for your unquenchable desire to use emoticons, it is natural; in the absence of logic, reason and facts, emoticons fill a vacuum. Do continue to use these and proclaim your bankruptcy of facts.
The Kashmiris were usurping at tyrant.

The Maharajah loses all his rights.

Nice try though.

Point is Gilgit Baltistan cannot be claimed by China.

China does not have a claim on Gilgit-Baltistan.
 
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That some portions of the princely state were in rebellion before the Instrument of Accession in no way extinguishes the Maharaja's right to restore order and resume control.

As for your unquenchable desire to use emoticons, it is natural; in the absence of logic, reason and facts, emoticons fill a vacuum. Do continue to use these and proclaim your bankruptcy of facts.
Some portion of India wanted independence from the Raj how does that sound?
 
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True. Pakistan did a perfect deal for Pakistan when it settled its boundary issues with China.

For more about Pakistani agreement with China about its border and Shaksgam valley, I had a very comprehensive debate with bharatis and proved that Pakistan did the right deal with China and actually got land it didn't administer as compared to the notion that Pakistan gave shaksgam valley to China. @Iqbal Ali can read more about this deal here:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-failed-kashmir-in-ajk.440769/
Thanks Brother.

I will have a look on it.

Alright. I have seen your post Areesh.

Pakistan obviously settle all territorial disputes with China.

So China does not have a claim on Gilgit-Baltistan.

Enough said. :)
 
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