PAF: Why a few "advance and expensive" aircrafts make sense

[45'22']

Dear Pakistani pilots are flying Su-30s of PLAAF since long so PAF have pilots familiar with those type of jets also China is big factor here, they will make sure that Pakistan don't have maintenance issues if thru purchase Flanker-Es. Remember how Turkey helped Pakistan to maintain F-16s during heavy embargoes.

Flying in peacetime is different....
If Pak goes for 35s then it will take atleast a decade to master the strategies with the bird....

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

First of all Su35 deal, if materialized, will be exclusive for PN than PAF. 30 odd planes are more than enough to protect our ports and provide attacking capabilities deep inside India through Arabian sea. 2 squads of Su35 with 3 squads of JF17 interceptors will make our Navy pretty deadly when it comes to aerial warfare. F16s will be dedicated to protect land mass through eastern side.

 

[Imran Khan]

Flying in peacetime is different....
If Pak goes for 35s then it will take atleast a decade to master the strategies with the bird....

i think 5 years are more then enough also remember we can have help on flankers via china

 

[45'22']

i think 5 years are more then enough also remember we can have help on flankers via china

Russian defence ministry had ordered 48 35s in 2009 and it took the assembly line around 6 years to deliver all......
If Pak gets the jet in fly away condition then what you said might be true otherwise going by the assembly line....Pak will be getting around 32 jets in around 4 years....

There are also rumours that Russia is going to order 48 more 35s in the forthcoming MAKS airshow

 

[Imran Khan]

Russian defence ministry had ordered 48 35s in 2009 and it took the assembly line around 6 years to deliver all......
If Pak gets the jet in fly away condition then what you said might be true otherwise going by the assembly line....Pak will be getting around 32 jets in around 4 years....

There are also rumours that Russia is going to order 48 more 35s in the forthcoming MAKS airshow

i think its good time we can send pilots for training in this time and get ready for birds . its induction of new fighter jet not hot cake

 

[45'22']

i think its good time we can send pilots for training in this time and get ready for birds . its induction of new fighter jet not hot cake

I am saying the same thing khan saheb.....its a fighter jet not some aloo,tamater that Pak is going to buy in such hush hush......and if it does so then what are the future birds then Pak is going to acquire ?

 

[WishLivePak]

Wouldn't it be better to go f15 as we can get trained with it and one day buy used from Middle East?

Plus were already familiar with Boeing/US. or j20 isn't bad choice too

 

[HAIDER]

China operates Su-30 not 35.


@Oscar @Horus @Irfan Baloch @Icarus

Ordered SU35 in 2013 will getting delivery soon. But, here talking about Su27, same frame.

 

[Thunder.Storm]

SU-35 will also make it easy for us to get more new F-16 from USA. SU-35 is needed two squadrons will be enough to deter any Indian threat.

what if we start work on twin engine jf-17(means another but our own twin jet project like jft) what do you think zarwan?

China wants Pakistan to buy this plane. Chinese has maintenance infrastructure.

agree with you after buying Chinese engineers will come and examine the jet so to make j-11 better.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Flying in peacetime is different....
If Pak goes for 35s then it will take atleast a decade to master the strategies with the bird....

With modern integrated technology and advancement in hi-tech virtual simulators - training and adoption time has significantly reduced with in professional air forces. It's not 80s and 90s anymore.

 

[aliyusuf]

Ordered SU35 in 2013 will getting delivery soon. But, here talking about Su27, same frame.

That order has not taken place till date for some reason.

Visually, Su-35 may look same as the rest of Su-27/30 family but it has a completely redesigned fuselage with extensive structural strengthening and use of composites. The center of gravity has been pushed further back. It's twin Saturn AL-117 engines generate approximately 20% more thrust than the MKI. It has longer range than the MKI and is over all significantly more maneuverable. It has considerably lower RCS and can supercruise and just falls short of a 5th Gen fighter in not having stealth and AESA Radar.

This is just the core machine and not factoring in its superior Irbis-E PESA radar, EW suite and avionics.

 

[WishLivePak]

That order has not taken place till date for some reason.

Visually, Su-35 may look same as the rest of Su-27/30 family but it has a completely redesigned fuselage with extensive structural strengthening and use of composites. The center of gravity has been pushed further back. It's twin Saturn AL-117 engines generate approximately 20% more thrust than the MKI. It has longer range than the MKI and is over all significantly more maneuverable. It has considerably lower RCS and can supercruise and just falls short of a 5th Gen fighter in not having stealth and AESA Radar.

This is just the core machine and not factoring in its superior Irbis-E PESA radar, EW suite and avionics.

Is it maneuverability that PAF likes since they've been very good at dog fights?

But aren't we well past dog fights since today is more about just having most range for radar, missle lock beyond visual etc?

 

[krash]

AVM Kaiser Tufail has highlighted the needs for a twin engined craft with longer legs for longer loiter time and naval cover for platforms. The Gawadar project has brought up this need as well. With in the PAF People have long felt the need for a twin engined heavy for the hi lo combo and at one time even EFT and Rafale as well as F15s in the 80s have been discussed. The cost factor has swayed people against the route. Now apparently newer doors are opening and provided all the hoops are crossed we may see a deal. Relatively the platform in question is more affordable and the AL117S covers some of the deficiencies of earlier AL31??on the MKI/MKK. SO we have taken a few steps along the way. Lets see how this cookie crumbles.

He was never AVM, he retired an Air Commodore.

 

[aliyusuf]

Is it maneuverability that PAF likes since they've been very good at dog fights?

But aren't we well past dog fights since today is more about just having most range for radar, missle lock beyond visual etc?

Admittedly the importance of BVRs and HOBS and in general the 5th Gen AAMs cannot be ignored and they are going to rule the roost. But the importance of dogfighting will never completely cease, especially, if the plane is not a true stealth (very low observable) fighter like the F-22 or F-35. Also what will happen when a not so maneuverable stealth fighter finds itself facing an agile adversary in WVR, due to the uncertain vagaries of modern air combat? For every measure in the long history of aviation there has always been a counter measure. The US is currently banking on BVR, Advanced Sensors and Stealth and with the F-35 the emphasis has drifted away from maneuverability. But should it find itself in a situation where the adversaries have come up with a counter to their BVR and Stealth, the US will find itself at some disadvantage (especially in the case of the F-35) but it has the all encompassing force and the range of equipment which will help it pull through this phase and due to its resources it will again regain technical ascendancy in another groundbreaking way. Russia and all the other powers do not have the plethora of capabilities and equipment to come to its rescue like the US ... so they also tend to keep the so called old concept of maneuverability to fall back upon. Curiously similar discussions were also going on in the same way in the 60s when AAMs were thought to be the weapon that will make maneuverable fighters obsolete. As you know the rest is history.

 

[HAIDER]

Is it maneuverability that PAF likes since they've been very good at dog fights?

But aren't we well past dog fights since today is more about just having most range for radar, missle lock beyond visual etc?

TVC is expensive engine, don't think Pak will buy TVC or can afford TVC. Only Russian has TVC , non ANY OTHER COUNTRY, including India.