PAF to induct 188 JF-17 aircrafts including 26 JF-17B & 50 JF-17 Blk3

[Pakistani Fighter]

I hope all JF-17 block I and II will upgraded to Block III Standard . After all you are going to face a larger force with having both quantitative and qualitative advantage. 200+/- AESA equipped JF-17 block III can make any intruder life to hell .

NRIET KLJ-7A

KLJ-7A has a range of 170 km against aerial target with 3m² RCS (radar cross-section) or 200 km against aerial target with 5m² RCS. It can track 15 targets and engage four simultaneously
VS
LKF 601E

LKF 601E uses a 3GHz bandwidth at the X-band, provides detection of fighter-sized targets at 170 km, tracks up to 15 targets simultaneously and engages four with air/air missiles. The radar also supports air/ground modes, with one-meter SAR resolution and terrain mapping at 300 km. Searching targets at sea, the radar can detect large targets from 200 km.

@NA71

 

[NA71]

Any one can help comparing LKF-601E vs KLJ-7A...and why we are taking too much time the making final selection?

ok i have fount it:

https://quwa.org/2018/11/09/airshow...ii-and-demonstrates-the-thunders-potential-2/

 

[SQ8]

Great .. BTW it was not you as far as I remember .
JF17B is a lot more capable than any AJT. It is full fledge fighter with AESA radar so it can be & will be used in multiple roles. It is PAF which uses all resources at its disposal in new innovative ways.. If K8 can be thought of for point defence and coin operations than JF17B is more than capable of doing multirole missions.

I am still in the camp of not needing( or rather not prioritizing a B) over simulators; but since its happening after a good number is inducted then it makes sense l.

@Oscar is it possible that PAF might use JF-17B as a EW platform ?

Its our system so it could be done. But for that we need a fairly powerful and decent EW pod.
Our South Korean source was scuttled by the Americans and no one else has that good a system willing to sell to us.

Unless tomorrow we recognize Israel or @denel knows something sitting in SA which the Indians cannot sabotage

 

[MastanKhan]

Any one can help comparing LKF-601E vs KLJ-7A...and why we are taking too much time the making final selection?

Hi,

Technology is moving ahead at an extremely rapid pace---but the thing is that military grade equipment is oblivious of that---. Because it takes time to test the equipment & time cannot be compressed---.

You really really don't want to take short cuts at this time---. Both the manufacturers are vying very hard for the contract---they want to jump on the bandwagon of the recent success of the Paf---.

The production line of the BLK3 will start in a timely manner---.

 

[YeBeWarned]

I am still in the camp of not needing( or rather not prioritizing a B) over simulators; but since its happening after a good number is inducted then it makes sense l.


Its our system so it could be done. But for that we need a fairly powerful and decent EW pod.
Our South Korean source was scuttled by the Americans and no one else has that good a system willing to sell to us.

Unless tomorrow we recognize Israel or @denel knows something sitting in SA which the Indians cannot sabotage

What about Turkey or China ? I don't even know if we had any defense relationship with S.Korea , so its Obvious that they won't sell anything to Pakistan if uncle Sam said no ..

South Africa can be a possibility but if they have such a Pod .

 

[AsifIjaz]

JF17 B acquisition is a decent decision provided we use it for dedicated missions the options or possibilities of which directly correlate with getting an improved i.e. more power plant on it. 1 or 2 units accompanying a mission can be beneficial.

For LIFT, M346, L16 and FTC 2000G are the options at hand. Though M346 and L16 both are newer designs with twin engine but keeping in mind the economic situation i guess we would be better off with going for FTC 2000G tailored for Pakistani needs into FTC 2000GP.
This aircraft is based upon an old base design but selecting this can save us lots of money as it has some commonality with FTC7 we are using currently, we can use F7 / F7p / F7pg arsenal on it during light attack role (it has 7 hard points), We can also salvage Grifo radars and put them on it and if we do decide to upgrade all or some of the radars on block 1/2 thunders then probably we may as well fit klj7 into it. If we do order some sizable numbers then we may probably get a local production as well. The Achilles heal for this aircraft would be power plant and limited room for up gradation.

 

[war&peace]

Its our system so it could be done. But for that we need a fairly powerful and decent EW pod.
Our South Korean source was scuttled by the Americans and no one else has that good a system willing to sell to us.

What about Turkey Aselsan ?

 

[denel]

I think they won't. Aren't blk 1 already upgraded to blk 2?

Correct... I believe they are upgrading Blk1 to blk2 level; but apart from AESA radar fitment to Blk2; nothing else is planned for 'commonalised' blk 2s.

I hope all JF-17 block I and II will upgraded to Block III Standard . After all you are going to face a larger force with having both quantitative and qualitative advantage. 200+/- AESA equipped JF-17 block III can make any intruder life to hell .

Not happening; there is somewhat of a roadmap to get AESA radar fitted to Blk2's; Blk1s to move to Blk2 standard.

Hi,

I believe that this hiding name is not a good precedence---.

As for the Paf's decision not to build 2 seater was a very poor tactical decision---. It showed that Paf had a lack of understanding of inducting a brand new aircraft into service---it also showed that bull-sh-itters were controlling the hierarchy of the Paf at that time---. I think ' our pilots are superior pilots ' mentality was hot at that time.

This claim of simulator training be all good fell flat on its face---. Paf hierarchy needed to understand that the 'wheel' has already been invented.

A lack of a two seater gave a massive loss to the JF17 sales & tactical progress initiative---set it back by around 5 to 8 years---. It is not as if the Paf did not have smart weapons---.

Correct assessment; lack of a dual seater caused loss of earlier sales. Simulators can only do so much; they cannot perform advanced flight combat training. Glad they woke up. Then again they lose their laurels but not following up with further R&D inhouse

PAF may induct more JF17 block-3 and Bs down the road as per the circumstances but priority will be given to upgrading the lower blocks I & II. It may start in parallel and perhaps LKF60E be used in especially the block-I

I think we did earlier state that number is closer to 300 in the eventuality; my concern is they appear to be slating or posturing as though now 188 is enough; it is no where closer especially if M3/5's get taken out of the mix. Blk4 or derivative of jf-17b must be considered as another specialised path dedicated for deep strike which is lacking now.

 

[SQ8]

Correct... I believe they are upgrading Blk1 to blk2 level; but apart from AESA radar fitment to Blk2; nothing else is planned for 'commonalised' blk 2s.


Not happening; there is somewhat of a roadmap to get AESA radar fitted to Blk2's; Blk1s to move to Blk2 standard.


Correct assessment; lack of a dual seater caused loss of earlier sales. Simulators can only do so much; they cannot perform advanced flight combat training. Glad they woke up. Then again they lose their laurels but not following up with further R&D inhouse

Both for the F-22 and F-35 the sims are doing just that, and the latter is going to be in the 2000 production range.

The problem for the PAF is that the other ecosystem for training- from basic to AJT and LIFT is getting outdated.

The USAF will have a LIFT that will mimic the F-35 whereas the PAF was never able to get an asset to do so.

 

[denel]

Both for the F-22 and F-35 the sims are doing just that, and the latter is going to be in the 2000 production range.

The problem for the PAF is that the other ecosystem for training- from basic to AJT and LIFT is getting outdated.

The USAF will have a LIFT that will mimic the F-35 whereas the PAF was never able to get an asset to do so.

Correct; but if I understand correctly the jf-17 sims do not have lift actuators to give the 'full' experience of flying.

What better an aircraft than jf-17b to do this function? while Aeromacchi has a good platform to be considered - we used locally built MB-Impalas close to 200+ that did bulk of the heavy lifting - stellar performers.

Again i am hoping that they dont short change themselves and not to a TOT in name only as we saw with Agosta subs where they went to china for next series of subs; please dont make fools of people claiming it to be a TOT and not make another series of subs locally or for other countries.

 

[airomerix]

Azeri's and Saudi's want a B model.

They some how find simulators complex and not close enough to the real thing. Over heard an official attached with JF-17 program at PAC Kamra

 

[MastanKhan]

Correct; but if I understand correctly the jf-17 sims do not have lift actuators to give the 'full' experience of flying.

What better an aircraft than jf-17b to do this function? while Aeromacchi has a good platform to be considered - we used locally built MB-Impalas close to 200+ that did bulk of the heavy lifting - stellar performers.

Again i am hoping that they dont short change themselves and not to a TOT in name only as we saw with Agosta subs where they went to china for next series of subs; please dont make fools of people claiming it to be a TOT and not make another series of subs locally or for other countries.

Hi,

The JF17 was also planned to be sold to other nations---so that part was not taken into consideration at all---.

Even if the Paf had the lift actuators for their flight sim that still did not mean the importance of having a two seater---. The general officer incharge of buying still wants to take a ride in the aircraft.

For the F35 / F22---the best of the best pilots from the F16 / F15 / F18 sqdrn's are chosen---this is the pure elite of usaf that gets transfered over---. Their flight sims are as good as real---so Paf cannot compete with them.

And there was no reason for the Paf to think that way---. They should have stuck to the basics---.

Azeri's and Saudi's want a B model.

They some how find simulators complex and not close enough to the real thing. Over heard an official attached with JF-17 program at PAC Kamra

Hi,

Old men want to ride the toys that young men will operate before they make buying decisions---.

 

[denel]

Hi,

The JF17 was also planned to be sold to other nations---so that part was not taken into consideration at all---.

Even if the Paf had the lift actuators for their flight sim that still did not mean the importance of having a two seater---. The general officer incharge of buying still wants to take a ride in the aircraft.

For the F35 / F22---the best of the best pilots from the F16 / F15 / F18 sqdrn's are chosen---this is the pure elite of usaf that gets transfered over---. Their flight sims are as good as real---so Paf cannot compete with them.

And there was no reason for the Paf to think that way---. They should have stuck to the basics---.



Hi,

Old men want to ride the toys that young men will operate before they make buying decisions---.

Yes, that is the problem, we left soldiers do the planning, construction etc. They have no sense of what it is to market or get user expectations. There is no out of the box thinking resources outside to dictate next steps; i find it rather stupid that people have put these people on top of the pedestle and expect them to know all. Wrong move.

 

[SQ8]

FYI - USAF F-35 pilot training for fresh grads from T-38. No elites, just regular rookies
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Dis...es-first-f-35-undergraduate-pilot-curriculum/

 

[khanasifm]

So PAF will be relying on JF 17, No plans of inducting new platforms like EF or J10s to fill the gap until FGFA?

What can be cheaper than jf-17 as lift ?? JL-10 approximately 15 million vs 20 plus million and one sqn of 25-30 max following 1 fcu??
Not sure each chief has his own vision of interest last time k-8 was consider good enough straight to fighters