PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Deino]

Deino, You should stop being surprised at small things.

There are soon going to be many things that will surprise the deino out of you. Things that you deem impossible.

Oh, I'm well prepared fo any surprise, big surprises and even more ... and I'm also happy to get corrected - in fact i would be more than happy if Pakistan would get J-16s and J-16Ds - but these surprises must be real and clearly confirmed and not pure guessing like such claims "green means fuel and so every part in green - including the cockpit side-walls up to the canopy frame - is fuel! Such things are IMO ridiculous. But again ... hey, yes, surprise that old Deino!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1482601413306126337

PAF survival plans with their minimal budget

Post of the day!!

 

[JawadKKhan]

Bad news for americans---last bit of american influence over pakistan has disppeared now---terrible foreign policy by the americans.

Last bit of american influence on Pakistan disappeared now ?

Not only USA is our top export market. We have trade surplus with US. That means we import much less stuff from US then we export. They still can influence us with economy. If they put duties on our export materials or deny entry we are doomed. We are in trade deficit with China massively.

I am sure, you are aware out IT industry almost solely run on US clients.

Secondly, don't you think PAF still needs US for maintenance, if not upgradation for 75 F-16s. These F-16s are currently most capable platform in the our service.

Lastly, we are over dependent on US technologies which we overlook. From computer processing units to GPS, everything is property of USA. I have thrown details in some other thread don't want to repeat all over but I disagree with the analysis that procuring J-10Cs will completely remove US influence. Yes it may reduce it a bit.. but completely remove? Not a chance until we become economically & technologically independent.

Cheers.

 

[lcloo]

Air to ground/sea surface configuration with laser guided bombs and AGM.

Air-to-air missiles deployed may include short-range air-to-air missiles such as the PL-8 and PL-10 (on J-10C), medium-range radar-guided air-to-air missiles such as the PL-12 and PL-15 (on J-10C), unguided and precision guided munitions such as laser-guided bombs, air-to-surface missile such as KD-88,[35] anti-ship missiles such as the YJ-91A,[35] and anti-radiation missiles such as the YJ-91.[35]

 

[Trango Towers]

Some one told me that delta wing can’t support CFT , then why raphaaale have CFTs ?

Shouldn't listen to someone and use your own brain

 

[TheSolution]

Last bit of american influence on Pakistan disappeared now ?

View attachment 809027

Not only USA is our top export market. We have trade surplus with US. That means we import much less stuff from US then we export. They still can influence us with economy. If they put duties on our export materials or deny entry we are doomed. We are in trade deficit with China massively.

I am sure, you are aware out IT industry almost solely run on US clients.

Secondly, don't you think PAF still needs US for maintenance, if not upgradation for 75 F-16s. These F-16s are currently most capable platform in the our service.

Lastly, we are over dependent on US technologies which we overlook. From computer processing units to GPS, everything is property of USA. I have thrown details in some other thread don't want to repeat all over but I disagree with the analysis that procuring J-10Cs will completely remove US influence. Yes it may reduce it a bit.. but completely remove? Not a chance until we become economically & technologically independent.

Cheers.

Our foreign policy towards USA should always attempt to be postitive/friendly or neutral at the very least, we are not in the position to challenge them openly. And no one can save our as#es either. We have a very long way to go until then, but currently US still dominates globally, although they are being challenged by China

 

[Polestar 2]

Last bit of american influence on Pakistan disappeared now ?

View attachment 809027

Not only USA is our top export market. We have trade surplus with US. That means we import much less stuff from US then we export. They still can influence us with economy. If they put duties on our export materials or deny entry we are doomed. We are in trade deficit with China massively.

I am sure, you are aware out IT industry almost solely run on US clients.

Secondly, don't you think PAF still needs US for maintenance, if not upgradation for 75 F-16s. These F-16s are currently most capable platform in the our service.

Lastly, we are over dependent on US technologies which we overlook. From computer processing units to GPS, everything is property of USA. I have thrown details in some other thread don't want to repeat all over but I disagree with the analysis that procuring J-10Cs will completely remove US influence. Yes it may reduce it a bit.. but completely remove? Not a chance until we become economically & technologically independent.

Cheers.

Pakistan armed forces has already signed up for China beidou 3 gps system. Precisely, Pakistan economy running on IT sector is a big mistakes as manufacturing shall grap a bigger shares with a huge young population. Manufacturing feed most mouth, not IT white collar jobs. Pakistan biggest importer are China and most are essential items and not luxury goods. It is Chinese low price machinery and commodities that keep Pakistan inflation much lower, business competitive.

PAF is switching from F-16 to J-10. Same as army and navy using almost all Chinese weaponery.

 

[JawadKKhan]

Pakistan armed forces has already signed up for China beidou 3 gps system. Precisely, Pakistan economy running on IT sector is a big mistakes as manufacturing shall grap a bigger shares with a huge young population. Manufacturing feed most mouth, not IT white collar jobs. Pakistan biggest importer are China and most are essential items and not luxury goods. It is Chinese low price machinery and commodities that keep Pakistan inflation much lower.

PAF is switching from F-16 to J-10. Same as army and navy using almost all Chinese weaponery.

No denying chinese equipment in now dominant in the armed forces. But saying US influence is completely over is not correct. The country's earning is through Exports. You can see our economy is on the edge. Every billion dollar is extremely important for us. They have tremendous influence on us because of economy. Our exports / economy is not diversified atm. Once we have enough exports and export markets only then we can claim our independence. Our economy is surviving on those exports for now.

US looking over trade organizations, their ability to sanction countries, their ability to influence UN, FATF and other organisations is a glimpse of what that super power can influence upon us.

If you dig some research papers, you will see US has potentially ability to create internet blackout on third world countries.. not just because they have the tech giants, but also because of all the infrastructure they have. all the data they have, all the communication satellites and more..

Plus, if we have to switch to ALL chinese, don't you think we'd become overwhelmingly dependent on China?. Is it good for us ?. Nope we must keep balance. China is our great friend, but every country must think of its own strategic interests in long run.

Edit: Pakistan national policy is also stating same thing to create balance and not join any camp.. Pakistan also strives for good relations with ALL countries especially US & China. Policy makers know this.. However, we awaam sometimes think otherwise. However, J-10C is a good acquisition. it was only sensible acquisition given circumstances of our economy & foreign policy.

 

[TheSolution]

Pakistan armed forces has already signed up for China beidou 3 gps system. Precisely, Pakistan economy running on IT sector is a big mistakes as manufacturing shall grap a bigger shares with a huge young population. Manufacturing feed most mouth, not IT white collar jobs. Pakistan biggest importer are China and most are essential items and not luxury goods. It is Chinese low price machinery and commodities that keep Pakistan inflation much lower.

PAF is switching from F-16 to J-10. Same as army and navy using almost all Chinese weaponery.

How is it wise to switch from F-16 to J-10C, when the F-16's multi-role capabilities are far better, whereas the J-10C is an air superiority focused platform? (As expressed by others.)

5th generation jet seems more probable to replace the F-16s

 

[Polestar 2]

No denying chinese equipment in now dominant in the armed forces. But saying US influence is completely over is not correct. The country's earning is through Exports. You can see our economy is on the edge. Every billion dollar is extremely important for us. They have tremendous influence on us because of economy. Our exports / economy is not diversified atm. Once we have enough exports and export markets only then we can claim our independence. Our economy is surviving on those exports for now.

US looking over trade organizations, their ability to sanction countries, their ability to influence UN, FATF and other organisations is a glimpse of what that super power can influence upon us.

If you dig some research papers, you will see US has potentially ability to create internet blackout on third world countries.. not just because they have the tech giants, but also because of all the infrastructure they have. all the data they have, all the communication satellites and more..

Plus, if we have to switch to ALL chinese, don't you think we'd become overwhelmingly dependent on China?. Is it good for us ?. Nope we must keep balance. China is our great friend, but every country must think of its own strategic interests in long run.

Edit: Pakistan national policy is also stating same thing to create balance and not join any camp.. Pakistan also strives for good relations with ALL countries especially US & China. Policy makers know this.. However, we awaam sometimes think otherwise. However, J-10C is a good acquisition. it was only sensible acquisition given circumstances of our economy & foreign policy.

Pakistan too dependent on China is not our making but US continue harmful policy that force Pakistan to depend on China.

Same as China semi con chips and military. If without US sanction, China wouldnt so rely on our own industries capacity. Luckily, we are a major countries and has capacity to depend on ourselves.

 

[TNT]

Last bit of american influence on Pakistan disappeared now ?

View attachment 809027

Not only USA is our top export market. We have trade surplus with US. That means we import much less stuff from US then we export. They still can influence us with economy. If they put duties on our export materials or deny entry we are doomed. We are in trade deficit with China massively.

I am sure, you are aware out IT industry almost solely run on US clients.

Secondly, don't you think PAF still needs US for maintenance, if not upgradation for 75 F-16s. These F-16s are currently most capable platform in the our service.

Lastly, we are over dependent on US technologies which we overlook. From computer processing units to GPS, everything is property of USA. I have thrown details in some other thread don't want to repeat all over but I disagree with the analysis that procuring J-10Cs will completely remove US influence. Yes it may reduce it a bit.. but completely remove? Not a chance until we become economically & technologically independent.

Cheers.

Finally someone who shows the reality. Fanboys are warning US that if u dnt give us F16Vs then all ur influence is gone lolz. Seems most fanboys are oblivious to real life issues like economy.
This list also shows that there are so called brotherly counteies that does not contribute to our economy and yet we jump up and down for them. See our minimal exports to countries like saudi, Turkey, Malaysia.
We should strictly divert to geo economics and tell everyone that our only friend is the nation that does business with us and helps our economy.

 

[Ali_Baba]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1482601413306126337

PAF survival plans with their minimal budget

The problem with the Mirages are that it required 2 Mirages to deliver just 1 H-4 SOW against India. It then took JF17s and F16s flying top cover to protect those two Mirages.

It takes 1 Rafale to deliver 2 SCALPS and it can fight itself in and out of a target at both short, medium and long ranges. Effectively doing the same function as 3 PAF planes currently at a minimium. That is where the multipler for aircraft like the Rafale come into the equation.

The Mirages are no longer effective in the challenges that Pakistan faces - a JF17 Block III with 2 Baburs/CM-400s/Ra'ads, 1 under each wing with 2 PL15s and 2 SD-10s on dual racks is a far more effective package. The sooner the JF17 Block IIIs can replace those legacy flying coke cans - the better. The lack of modern payload options, modern BVR avionics is a real problem for the Mirage fleet now as it needs secondary assets to protect it. Secondary assets that should really be doing their own strike operations. Feb 2019 showed both its strength and weaknesses of the legacy platform. Strength in that PAF has some SOW capabililty. However, It needed a total of 2 Mirages with 4 crew-members to deliver just one SOW... and it then had to be guided to its target via Line of Sight putting that aircraft and crew at very significant risk.

Mirages have had their time and the Mirage fanboys in the PAF, here and elsewhere need to realise that - and people need to understand that in a full war, they are a hinderance - not a help as they are so limited in what they can do and the amount of extra support they need to do that small function ontop.

 

[StormBreaker]

Oh, I'm well prepared fo any surprise, big surprises and even more ... and I'm also happy to get corrected - in fact i would be more than happy if Pakistan would get J-16s and J-16Ds - but these surprises must be real and clearly confirmed and not pure guessing like such claims "green means fuel and so every part in green - including the cockpit side-walls up to the canopy frame - is fuel! Such things are IMO ridiculous. But again ... hey, yes, surprise that old Deino!



Post of the day!!

I don’t recall mentioning anything specific about surprises but well…

 

[MastanKhan]

Last bit of american influence on Pakistan disappeared now ?

View attachment 809027

Not only USA is our top export market. We have trade surplus with US. That means we import much less stuff from US then we export. They still can influence us with economy. If they put duties on our export materials or deny entry we are doomed. We are in trade deficit with China massively.

I am sure, you are aware out IT industry almost solely run on US clients.

Secondly, don't you think PAF still needs US for maintenance, if not upgradation for 75 F-16s. These F-16s are currently most capable platform in the our service.

Lastly, we are over dependent on US technologies which we overlook. From computer processing units to GPS, everything is property of USA. I have thrown details in some other thread don't want to repeat all over but I disagree with the analysis that procuring J-10Cs will completely remove US influence. Yes it may reduce it a bit.. but completely remove? Not a chance until we become economically & technologically independent.

Cheers.

Hi,

What you wrote is all well and good---but when the Paf gets the J10 C's---it is like a massive piece of iceberg has broken off the shelf---.

Instead of the US being in a position of influence---it has slid down the pole.

The thing is that 30-40-50-60 F16's would not have done anything other than bring peace sooner to the sub-continent---.

As Pres Duterte stated about american congressmen and senators---the car salesmen of american politics---cannot trust the US to stand by its deals

 

[tphuang]

It's hard to see China exporting J-10 to anyone else in the near future for a number of reasons. First of all, China already has an export oriented aircraft in JF-17. Pakistan have really done a great job of working with China to develop this aircraft to be a capable aircraft. It has also done a great job of helping to promote this aircraft. You have all the traditional US allies that is or will be F-35 users. You have all the other users of 4+ generation aircraft that would have no reason to buy J-10s. For vast majority of the remaining countries, JF-17 probably fills all of their need. Now, this will change in the next generation when J-31/35 will likely be the most capable and stealthy non-American fighter jet available for purchase. That's probably only 8 years away. I don't see China finding another suitable export partner for J-10 before that. Maybe Iran? But I don't know if that's a good idea.

The other area I want to address is multi-role capabilities of J-10. It has not been used as a multi-role aircraft within PLAAF due to the presence of flankers. You simply can't carry as much fuel or weapon on a J-10 as J-16. J-16 can also carry more powerful radar and EW suites and pods than j-10. However, there is nothing fundamentally preventing it from a multi-role aircraft within PAF. It is the same size as F-16 and larger than JF-17. It has a more powerful engine than both F-16 and JF-17, so can carry more fuel and weaponry. With its higher thrust engine, it can carry more powerful EW suite and have better situation better than F-16 and JF-17. Keep in mind that F-16 Block 50 is using 90s era avionics at this point, so cannot be as survivable going into a well defended air space as J-10C. On top of that, US has also placed stringent usage requirement on PAF F-16s. J-10 will also always have an advantage over JF-17 in survivability, range and payload due to its larger airframe, better wing loading, better T/W ratio and more powerful engine. Remember, China is continuously upgrading WS-10 series due to J-20 requirements. The same level of investment simply does not exist for RD-93s.

Again, PAF will get an initial batch of J-10Cs which will probably be almost the same as the ones PLAAF has. If it likes the aircraft, then it can work with CAC to produce a more multi-role variant that uses a more powerful engine and a more multi-role radar. Of course, all of this depends on how PAF views the aircraft and how much it's willing to spend to develop additional capabilities.

Long term, why would PAF keep F-16s around if it can get J-31/35 in 8 to 10 years? The majority of them are already 35 to 40 years old. They are unlikely to be upgraded and can only used in ways approved by the American government. At some point, PAF needs to move on from F-16. That's not a bad thing unless you think America will sell PAF F-35s.

 

[MastanKhan]

Long term, why would PAF keep F-16s around if t can get J-31/35 in 8 to 10 years? The majority of them are already 35 to 40 years old. They are unlikely to be upgraded and can only used in ways approved by the American government. At some point, PAF needs to move on from F-16. That's not a bad thing unless you think America will sell PAF F-35s.

Hi,

Training with and against the usaf.