What's new

PAF Air to Air and Air to Ground missile systems should evolve

I go back to the late 80's---every analyst who had the interest of pakistan at heart told the Paf not to pursue the second batch of 36 F16's---because the sanctions were coming.
My father told me that most of us knew the sanctions were coming but the top office always believed nothing will happen (on the basis of what? I would say sheer stupidity) actually we don't have any accountability otherwise such acts of criminal negligences should be investigated and even the dead culprits should posthumously tried and punished even if it is symbolic, they should be stripped off their titles, ranks and medals. Is it a joke that the nation provides them through its blood and they mismanage the funds like that and then keep harping "money is a problem".

They were advised to post a law suit against the govt for re-nigging on the contract and stop payments---would not listen---.
That would have ruined the post retirement plans of many.

No--Paf forced itself into the F16's against all advice---Mein nay tau isi larki say shadi karni hai ( I only want to marry this girl )---.
That obsession continues till this day. If it was not for sanction, we would not see JF-17 either. But i hope they continue further developing and make it a fighter to reckon with which I'm sure they are sincerely doing with China though. I precisely know where Pakistan contributed and made improvements / modifications and how its aerodynamic performance was improved by 0.3 Machs.

This is sensitive information---has hidden secrets---. Why would anyone let someone get near to their technology unless they are assured that there is a deal somewhere in the making with available funds---.

Getting parts for 5 years working is a total BULLSH-IT---it is just like buying Ibuprofen supply for the next 5 years----the nation need anti malaria pill---and typhoid pill and polio vaccinations---cholera medication---antibiotic---and all now to prevent the onslaught of a pandemic.

What are 3 engines per aircraft going to do against an air battle against the enemy---.

I rather need 3 frigging aircraft to fight the enemy----. I mean to say---stupidity has its limits---. What is 5 years maintenance supply going to do for me if the war starts tomorrow. I need machines to counter the enemy---.
That's true, they mean business otherwise we are not their cousins. That scenario really scares me, though we have good amount of spares and redundancy but those are all for outdate or underpowered A/Cs. Two hundred of Fiat Puntos won't go faster than a single Bugatti Veyron.
 
Last edited:
.
We need diversed weaponry with latest available missile so we get of negligence of BVR in 99 kargillwar
 
.
@MastanKhan It is true that financing capital hardware - e.g. fighter aircraft, ships, etc, - is similar in many respects to financing a home and car. Mechanisms actually do exist that enable even countries such as Egypt to engage in major acquisitions, and some of these mechanisms have been available to Pakistan as well. For many years, this has basically been the method through which the PAF and PN have financed their programs: Agosta 90B, F-16s, JF-17s, Chinese submarines, and even the propose Mirage 2000/-5.

Unfortunately, while it is possible to meet some of the requirements - e.g. cash down payment - there are other aspects that heavily impact our ability to procure arms. For example, a lot of the major arms financing mechanisms are in part influenced by the likes of the U.S. and U.K. In the late 1970s, when the U.S. was not so hot about selling the PAF F-16s, it had actually proposed to basically make term financing arrangements for the M2K and Mirage F-1 possible. Egypt - despite having an economy as bad as ours - is benefiting from a slew of strategic support, from aid to shadow guarantors to the U.S. not politically interfering (if not outright backing deals).

In the 1990s, that backing mechanism (for the Agosta 90Bs and M2K) came from the French and British governments, which were basically trying to pick up influence in Pakistan following the U.S.' departure at the time. Yes, the PAF could have just put up with the overarching corruption, and that's a valid point in the aspects you raised. But at the end of it, I doubt we would have raised enough to produce spare parts for the fighter, or to keep its production line alive much past 2007. In the end, we'd be in a position of having a fighter with an increasingly limited support base in terms of spare parts, and would have to raise capital to buy increasingly scarce spare parts and attrition replacement.

As for financing. Unfortunately these days, Pakistan does not have this support. On the one hand, we have the U.S. who are not in the mood to see India get upset of our acquisitions (hence dissuading those who might lend or even sell to us). On the other hand, the likes of the U.K and France are trying to appease the Indians, so they're not in the mood to rock the boat. Russia just needs hard cash, and enough of it to offset whatever hissy fit the Indians might play.

That just leaves the Chinese, who we are utilizing as much as possible (in terms of financing support) in order to procure arms. But it appears there's a limit to the dock in what Beijing is willing to put on our tab at any given time.

All that said, we did spend national funds on the 18 Block-52+. In truth, it would have been more prudent on the PAF's part to not have parted with those funds on the new built F-16s. Rather, it ought to have sought a higher number of used airframes and upgraded them, so as to hold the fort for the short and medium-term. The national funding, even a $1bn or so, could have been reserved for another fighter type, or for earlier investment in a next-generation platform (if not accelerating JF-17 Block-III).
 
.
@MastanKhan That just leaves the Chinese, who we are utilizing as much as possible (in terms of financing support) in order to procure arms. But it appears there's a limit to the dock in what Beijing is willing to put on our tab at any given time.

That's not true. You have other options, from the EFT to a couple of potential Russian platforms besides the Chinese. You'll hear about these in the next few months.

All that said, we did spend national funds on the 18 Block-52+. In truth, it would have been more prudent on the PAF's part to not have parted with those funds on the new built F-16s. Rather, it ought to have sought a higher number of used airframes and upgraded them, so as to hold the fort for the short and medium-term. The national funding, even a $1bn or so, could have been reserved for another fighter type, or for earlier investment in a next-generation platform (if not accelerating JF-17 Block-III).

The purchase of 18 more F-16's in 2015-2016 was sheer stupidity. Mushy needed to buy 36-54 back in his days and that would've been no problem!! And all orders from that point on, should have been for used air-frames to modify to STAR/LIFT/MLU standards. May be another follow on order for 18 block 52's but that's it. You have to start monitoring your "good cycles" with the US and use that opportunity quickly.

The PAF need to remember the phrase in Latin "Carpe Diem", meaning seize the dam day, don't push the day out to 10 years!! Same happened with the Mirages and Rafales!!

Another screw up in recent years? After the JFT block II, they should've stop that program, acquire the J-10B or C platform with TOT and call that the JFT block III or IV. You'd be all set for life.

In the next 5-7 years, your entire air-force would consist of F-16's, J-10 C and D's, JFT block II's (block I would be upgraded to two). Now lets see, about 100 F-16's MLU'd, 120-140 J-10C&D's, and 250 JFT's block II, are about 500 jets, all with a baseline of 4.5th gen tech.

Then you could convert the J-10's next version (called JFT block V) into Stealth optimized. That's it, or buy J-31 for that Stealth role. You'd never need to buy anything if this had happened. Just keep improving the J-10 platform (a Rafale class jet, or at the least 85-90% ofit) and start adding Western weapons and avionics for certain clients you sell too.
 
Last edited:
.
@MastanKhan It is true that financing capital hardware - e.g. fighter aircraft, ships, etc, - is similar in many respects to financing a home and car. Mechanisms actually do exist that enable even countries such as Egypt to engage in major acquisitions, and some of these mechanisms have been available to Pakistan as well. For many years, this has basically been the method through which the PAF and PN have financed their programs: Agosta 90B, F-16s, JF-17s, Chinese submarines, and even the propose Mirage 2000/-5.

Unfortunately, while it is possible to meet some of the requirements - e.g. cash down payment - there are other aspects that heavily impact our ability to procure arms. For example, a lot of the major arms financing mechanisms are in part influenced by the likes of the U.S. and U.K. In the late 1970s, when the U.S. was not so hot about selling the PAF F-16s, it had actually proposed to basically make term financing arrangements for the M2K and Mirage F-1 possible. Egypt - despite having an economy as bad as ours - is benefiting from a slew of strategic support, from aid to shadow guarantors to the U.S. not politically interfering (if not outright backing deals).

In the 1990s, that backing mechanism (for the Agosta 90Bs and M2K) came from the French and British governments, which were basically trying to pick up influence in Pakistan following the U.S.' departure at the time. Yes, the PAF could have just put up with the overarching corruption, and that's a valid point in the aspects you raised. But at the end of it, I doubt we would have raised enough to produce spare parts for the fighter, or to keep its production line alive much past 2007. In the end, we'd be in a position of having a fighter with an increasingly limited support base in terms of spare parts, and would have to raise capital to buy increasingly scarce spare parts and attrition replacement.

As for financing. Unfortunately these days, Pakistan does not have this support. On the one hand, we have the U.S. who are not in the mood to see India get upset of our acquisitions (hence dissuading those who might lend or even sell to us). On the other hand, the likes of the U.K and France are trying to appease the Indians, so they're not in the mood to rock the boat. Russia just needs hard cash, and enough of it to offset whatever hissy fit the Indians might play.

That just leaves the Chinese, who we are utilizing as much as possible (in terms of financing support) in order to procure arms. But it appears there's a limit to the dock in what Beijing is willing to put on our tab at any given time.

All that said, we did spend national funds on the 18 Block-52+. In truth, it would have been more prudent on the PAF's part to not have parted with those funds on the new built F-16s. Rather, it ought to have sought a higher number of used airframes and upgraded them, so as to hold the fort for the short and medium-term. The national funding, even a $1bn or so, could have been reserved for another fighter type, or for earlier investment in a next-generation platform (if not accelerating JF-17 Block-III).

Hi,

The first 1/2 of the article is good---the 2nd half is apologetic---and then what if.

There is not a single person on this board---whose parents have not advised them to take the FIRST STEP in the right direction---or to make the right move---and things will happen.

What has happened with France, UK and the U S is not because these countries wanted to appease India---it is because the pakistani public failed Pakistan.

The French and the U S had no choice but to side with India----.
 
.
Agreed with MASTAN KHAN we must put our system and leaders in order
 
.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom