Only $6 billion for the WHOLE of Sindh (not enough even for Karachi alone)

[K-Xeroid]

This year is so important regarding to projects in Energy sectors , $6 Billion budget is not enough but at current circumstances that is the most that Islamabad can share today. Now the responsibility comes on Sindh government which itself is independent of its decisions . I don't think that even 50% of this budget will be used with honesty as PPP is well known for its corruption . That is why I'm speculating another least achievable year for Sindh's history . It will definitely put negative impact on Local Civilian's Psychology.

 

[FaujHistorian]

What is the alternative?
And be realistic in giving the alternative.

First step!

Update the whole philosophy of what taxation is and how taxes are collected and how the funds are used that were collected from the taxes.

Ditch the colonial era mindset that one single budget can be made for Pakistan (or even India but that's a separate discussion).


We need to have two budgets.


1. Dollar budget (hard currency budget) - Defines what are the projected needs of dollar amount needed for every year in the next 10 years.

2. Rupee budget (soft or local currency budget) - Defines what are the projected needs of rupees needed for every year in the next 10 years.


Note: some items will be common on #1 and #2, but many will be different.
Note-2: America, UK etc. do not need separate items #1 and #2 because they use hard currency on every level. But Pakistan does not. We have multi currency system, thus we need multiple currency budget.


A) Any dollars earned by export, tourism, expat remittance will contribute to #1.
B) Any taxes collected from Pakistanis with local income/earnings will be in rupees. contributing to item #2


Any shortfall between 1 and A has to be fulfilled by loans, aid. The nation must know about it upfront

Any shortfall between 2 and B will be met by increase in chanda (contribution) or by printing money.


At this stage the budget (like British days) is just a mishmash of expenses and percentages, but it does not give a clear picture to the man on the street as to what exactly are the financial challenges and how we are going to meet the financial obligations.


think about this as a really simple example.

if your family wants to buy a car.

and there are multiple earners in the house.

--- Should you just go around getting x amount of money as tax?

--- Or first you explain that I need 20 lakhs to buy the car. let me know how much everyone can contribute.
--- and if we cannot come up with 20 lakhs, then we cannot buy the car we want. But perhaps a smaller car, or motorcycle, or even bicycle is the way to go.

or take the car loan, and figure out how to pay monthly installments.


Sadly,

Our governments are elected, but they seldom lay out the projected needs for 10 years.

and

they seldom educate the masses as to how we are going to meet our obligations in the budget #1 vs. budget #2.


As the people are not on board,

Guess what,

they look at tax collection as a one way street where a viceroy is snatching money in order to fill the pockets of a distant empire.



So in summary to your question.


We need clear and modern steps to setup budget type #1

And

new ways to to collect required funds for budget type #2


So far I have given you the driving philosophy that must be updated.


Next few posts will try to give specific budget items and the revenue/ expenditure plan.


thank you.

 

[RazorMC]

$5 billion for Karachi will be a good start.

That means Sindh gov must up theirs to at least $15 billion.


Time to give up "Indian style" tax system in Pakistan. The whole damn thing is the relic of British colonial era.

Respectfully stating.

No intention to start Pak-Ind $hit shoveling.

Only for number comparison and give a bit of historical background

Karachi can easily generate that amount of money from taxes without putting any extra burden on anyone. In fact, proper implementation will reduce the burden on everyone.


1. The first thing is to enforce trade license for any commercial activity. No license = No work.
This regulates what a person can and can not do, prevents unqualified people from opening up "medical stores" and helps in better taxation and documentation.

2. Close down the mom n pop parchoon ki dukaan who pay absolutely no taxes or even electricity bills. Anyone who wants to provide a commercial or other service should get a trade license or stay away from making undue profits.

3. Tax the manufacturers directly for the goods they produce so that the entire cost is adjusted from the start and tax is collected at the base itself. No need to rely on the final retailer's honesty (which doesn't exist anyways).

3. Encourage growth for the large, tax-paying retailers who have more to lose than the parchoonis who sell sub-standard/fake goods most of the time. These retailers are also job-providers so their growth benefits a lot of people.

4. Wholesalers need heavy regulation for quality control and price-restrictions.

5. Close down all illegal production (kaarkhaanas) in Karachi, that are responsible for supplying fake and poisonous goods to cheap retailers.

6. Get all the bhatta-khors who are responsible for extorting millions of PKR from businessmen. This money should be going to the government.

7. Kill the BISP which focuses on making people beg for money instead of earning it.

 

[W.11]

Sindh's budget is Karachis budget.
Punjab's budget is Lahores budget.
Thats the way our politicians roll.

but sindh is made handicapped by PPP, sindh cant utilise its immense potential

all that is being generated is by karachi the rest of sindh not pushing hard enough

remove karachi and you have entire rest of province in the dark

and now PPP wants to turn karachi into interior sindh

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Sindh should collect taxes on Agriculture
Sindh should collect on Property Tax
Sindh should collect tax on vehicles , specially the stolen ones that are running around un registered
Sindh should collect tax from people
Sindh should collect tax from Sindhis
Sindh should collect tax from PPP and MQM members
Sindh should collect taxes from industries

All the Tax you collect "Provincial Tax you retain and use for betterment of Province"

Sindh should collect taxes on Agriculture
Sindh should collect on Property Tax
Sindh should collect tax on vehicles , specially the stolen ones that are running around un registered
Sindh should collect tax from people
Sindh should collect tax from Sindhis
Sindh should collect tax from PPP and MQM members
Sindh should collect taxes from industries

All the Tax you collect "Provincial Tax you retain and use for betterment of Province"

 

[My-Analogous]

What is the alternative?
And be realistic in giving the alternative.

Alternate is VAT. give up all taxes and just put VAT in each product and we will generate 4 times more Tax then what we are currently generating.

 

[rubyjackass]

p.s. Punjab must collect at least $100 billion chanda. And Sindh at least $70 billion.

Got too emotional? Did you check Pakistan's GDP?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well it is responsibility of the Provinces to collect Taxes

Cars -> Have Licence plates -> Every year these plates must get registered - > Revenue is collected by Province
Property- > Have property tax -> This is collected by Provinces
Sales Taxes -> Provinces collect sales Taxes
Sindh has agricultural land , Tax the income ->Revenue generated by Province

I think the problem is CHAL BAZI !!!! khane ki adat par gai hai ... SO THEY WANT THE FIVE STAR HOTEL AND FIVE STAR RESIDENCE .... etc five star car

 

[FaujHistorian]

Well it is responsibility of the Provinces to collect Taxes

Cars -> Have Licence plates -> Every year these plates must get registered - > Revenue is collected by Province
Property- > Have property tax -> This is collected by Provinces
Sales Taxes -> Provinces collect sales Taxes
Sindh has agricultural land , Tax the income ->Revenue generated by Province

Awesome ideas. man, you say it right.

But some on this forum will continue looking at "outside forces" to come fix their house.

......
I think the problem is CHAL BAZI !!!! khane ki adat par gai hai ... SO THEY WANT THE FIVE STAR HOTEL AND FIVE STAR RESIDENCE .... etc five star car

Yeap. They want everything 5 star, but don't want to pay for it.


peace

 

[xyxmt]

we talk same $hit here day in and day out
what a flucking waste of time, on top of that i have to listen to stupid kids telling me Pakistanis will start paying taxes left and right as soon as Imran become PM, jo khuda se nehe dartey wo Imran se dartey hain

 

[PakPrinciples]

it is time to end the taxes on petrol and electricity and general sales tax. instead we should go to the top 50% (mostly living in big colonies) and ask them to contribute based on their life style.

Pakistan should also remove all state subsidies on gas, food, etc... A lot of subsidized goods (ex. food, fuel, etc...) are being smuggled out of the country into places like Afghanistan which hurts the local economy. Furthermore, the subsidies aren't targeted so they're being taken advantage of by people who don't need them. Instead take the money that would regularly go into subsidies and invest them in the poorer neighborhoods.

In my opinion the GST is a good tax because it taps into the large informal economy. However, there should be a mechanism setup so that the truly poor can get a refund at the end of the year but this will involve them declaring where they worked and how much they earned as well as declaring expenses which then requires employers and other businesses to start keep track of sales/revenues. This will eventually lead to the economy being documented and greatly reduces under the table dealings and increases tax revenue streams.

I do agree with you that the upper middle class and upper class need to be taxed to a greater extent than they currently are and what's being proposed but they shouldn't be overburdened.

Punjab must collect at least $100 billion chanda. And Sindh at least $70 billion.

Pakistan's entire GDP is about $240 billion (not counting the informal economy which is said to be around 90% the size of the formal economy or $215 billion which you can't tax without increasing the GST, etc...). Pakistan needs a tax to GDP ratio of around 17% (or about $41 billion) to meet its yearly budget (which is what China and India are collecting at the moment). Where in the world are you getting figures like $100 billion and $70 billion? I'm assuming you mean in rupees in which case that would make sense but if you're talking about US dollars you're delusional.

This way it will take 100s of years (even if the population increase is 0%) to get tot he level of spending we need to have a decent society, clean roads, and working institutions.

If you want clean roads then get yourself and your family/friends to stop throwing their trash on public property. I went back to Pakistan and saw people including my cousin (who is a med student) throwing his trash on public property like it didn't matter. I asked him why he did it and basically the guy's excuse was "everyone else is doing it". Do you know why Canadian cities are so much cleaner than American cities? It's because we have a lot more respect for our country and people don't throw their **** on public property (or tape a crap on it either) like they do in the States. Trash collection will come with increasing tax revenues and hiring multiple private garbage collection firms and the same goes for working institutions but a tax to GDP ratio of around 17 to 18% is decent for developing economies but the coutnry also needs to more actively tackle corruption which requires citizens become more actively involved (ex. refuse to give bribes, report those individuals who take bribes or ask for them them, demand more accountability but not by sitting at home and typing away on PDF or youtube, etc...).