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Obama's speech in the UN: Against the Palestinian Initiative for a UN Seat

listen dude very simple question.

what right do you have on the Palestinian land at the very first place?

now There is israel.so why you don't go back to 1967 position and accept two state solution.

The barbaric terrorist you glorify objected any solution other the elimination of Israel and the creation of an Islamic state on the entire land of Israel, so what are you talking about?
 
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The barbaric terrorist you glorify objected any solution other the elimination of Israel and the creation of an Islamic state on the entire land of Israel, so what are you talking about?

your right on the palestinian land.
 
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i agree

and nothing can justify israel's policy of collective punishment.


you used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon which killed more women and children than any action taken by Hezbollah.

you use bulldozers and American-supplied gunships to harass and intimidate entire neighbourhoods, just to find one or two lightly armed gunman.



the death tolls speak for themselves!!






but those are just gentiles, why should you care about their lives?


You do not know what you are talking about. There are far more civilian killed in Arab countries, including in Lebanon and PA, by their own people than Israel ever killed. This terror organisations, like Hamas and Hizbualla want that as many as their civilians be hurt in the warfare so they can use it as propaganda and distribute the same distorted pictures you did. On the other hand Israel is trying to limit the casualties as much as possible from the same reason.

Face it, you support terrorism and proud of it, why you deny it?!

---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 PM ----------

your right on the palestinian land.

It is my right on the land of Israel.

There is no such thing as Palestinian land. There was never any Palestinian state, the Palestinian nation exist less than 100 years!
 
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your emotional reply was touching...

what about the Palestinians whose lands and olive trees were bull-dozed and stolen from them

many of them still have the deeds to those lands.




(this is where Solomon will butt in and claim that they ALL sold the land! A theory that has already been debunked) :lol:

---------- Post added at 12:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------



I've met many patriotic Americans who are furious over there government's blind support of israel....especially at a time when the U.S. is facing major fiscal troubles at home.

I have too. The blind support will result in a sad affair when the US crumble under the financial pressure its put itself under. Thanks for your interesting thoughts.
 
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IDF+soldier+trampling+on+Palestinian+kid+%2528fake%2529.jpg

Are you sure this is an IDF soldier as the gun seems to be an AK not a M 4 or M 16.
 
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You do not know what you are talking about. There are far more civilian killed in Arab countries, including in Lebanon and PA, by their own people than Israel ever killed

in Lebanon's case, that is factually incorrect. The civil war is long over.

even in PA, Fatah and Hamas are no longer duking it out


This terror organisations, like Hamas and Hizbualla want that as many as their civilians be hurt in the warfare so they can use it as propaganda and distribute the same distorted pictures you did. On the other hand Israel is trying to limit the casualties as much as possible from the same reason.

that's what the spin-masters say, however me personally im not convinced nor do i buy that argument

it's difficult to "sell that argument" to somebody who is informed on the conflict.

by the way, you've had leaders who openly said that Arabs are not human and should be eradicated. What is your response to that?[/QUOTE]

it's more of a moral stand, not about supporting terrorism

though I don't believe either Hamas or Hezbollah are terrorist organizations. Hamas in the past could be classified as terrorist organization but they no longer use suicide bombers or terrorism for their purposes. They are now using alternate means, they are maturing.


There is no such thing as Palestinian land. There was never any Palestinian state, the Palestinian nation exist less than 100 years!

israel didnt exist until 1948 :lol:

majority of israelis are not even indigenous to the lands....they have no ethnic or other affiliation with the middle east even --except perhaps the minority Sephardics
 
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American friends need to read the piece below -- Why? After all, it's just another hurtful and uncomfortable article that I have spent precious time searching out to deliver hurt and injury -- OR, it might afford you an insight that will be, I think, increasingly important to serious US and Israeli friends, it does not have to go done like this, please think things through, a world without US influence is a poorer world, and when people decide that they can no longer put up with the US, you guys need to think :


New geopolitical map of the Middle East is being drawn

By Patrick Seale, Special to Gulf News
Published: 00:00 September 23, 2011
Gulf News



The Arab Spring is not the only revolution in town. The toppling of dictators in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya; the mounting death toll in Syria and Yemen, where the outcome is still undecided; the revival of long-suppressed Islamic movements demanding a share of power; the struggle by young revolutionaries to re-invent the Arab state — all these dramatic developments have distracted attention from another revolution of equal significance.

It is the challenge being mounted by the region’s heavyweights —Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Iran — against the hegemony which the United States and Israel have sought to exercise over them for more than half a century.


When David Ben-Gurion declared Israel’s independence on May 14, 1948, he held the view that the country’s security could be assured only if it were militarily stronger than any possible Arab combination. This became Israel’s security doctrine. The desired hegemony was achieved by the prowess of Israel’s armed forces, but also by Israel’s external alliances first with France, then with the US.

Military superiority won Israel outstanding victories in the 1948 and 1967 wars, a less resounding victory in 1973, still more contentiously by its invasions of Lebanon in 1978, 1982 and 2006, and more reprehensively by its operation of unashamed brutality against Gaza in 2008-9 — to mention only the most significant among a host of other Israeli attacks, incursions and onslaughts against its neighbours over the past several decades.

In its early years, Israel’s hegemony was reinforced by its so-called ‘periphery’ doctrine — its attempt to neutralise the Arabs by concluding strategic alliances with neighbouring non-Arab states such as Turkey and the Shah’s Iran. Its 1979 peace treaty with Egypt also proved a vital asset over the past three decades, since it removed the most powerful country from the Arab line-up.

The collapse of Soviet power in 1989-91 contributed to the Arabs’ disarray, as did the huge success of pro-Israeli Americans in penetrating almost every institution of the American government, whether at state or federal level, most notably the US Congress. The message these advocates conveyed was that the interests of America and Israel were identical and their alliance ‘unshakable.’

Over the past forty years, the United States has provided Israel with sustained political and diplomatic support, as well as massive financial and military assistance, including a guarantee, enshrined in American law, of Israel’s Qualitative Military Edge (QME) – that is to say a US pledge to guarantee Israel’s ability to defeat any challenge from any of its neighbours.

Even 9/11 was turned to Israel’s advantage in convincing American opinion that Palestinian resistance to Israel was terrorism, no different from that which America itself had suffered! There followed George W. Bush’s catastrophic militarisation of American foreign policy, and the invasion, occupation and destruction of Iraq on fraudulent premises, largely engineered by neo-cons such as Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith and their colleagues at the Pentagon and in the Vice-President’s office, concerned above all to remove any possible threat to Israel from Saddam Hussain’s Iraq.

The US has sought to protect Israel’s regional nuclear monopoly by harsh sanctions against Iran, because of its nuclear activities, as well as joint US-Israeli sabotage operations, such as the infiltration into Iranian computers of the Stuxnet virus. Washington has turned a blind eye to Israel’s assassination of Iranian scientists, and has followed Israel in demonising resistance movements such as Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorist organisations.

America’s most grievous mistake, however — the source of great harm to itself, to Israel, and to peace and stability in the Middle East — has been to tolerate Israel’s continued occupation and dispossession of the Palestinians. These policies have aroused intense hate of Israel in the Arab and Muslim world and great anger at its superpower protector.


We are now witnessing a rebellion against these policies by the region’s heavyweights — in effect a rebellion against American and Israeli hegemony as spectacular as the Arab Spring itself. The message these regional powers are conveying is that the Palestine question can no longer be neglected. Israel’s land grab on the West Bank and its siege of Gaza must be ended. The Palestinians must at last be given a chance to create their own state. Their plight weighs heavily on the conscience of the world.

Turkey, long a strategic ally of Israel, has now broken with it. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced it as ‘the West’s spoilt child’. In a passionate speech in Cairo, he warned Israel that it must ‘pay for its aggression and crimes’. Supporting the Palestinians in their efforts to gain UN recognition as a state was, he declared, not an option but an ‘obligation’.


Warning


Prince Turki Al Faisal, a leading member of the Saudi Royal family and former intelligence chief, has publicly warned the United States that if it casts its veto against the Palestinian bid for statehood, it risks losing an ally. In a widely-noted article in the International Herald Tribune on 12 September, he wrote that ‘Saudi Arabia would no longer be able to cooperate with America’ in the way it has since the Second World War. The ‘Special Relationship’ between the two countries ‘would increasingly be seen as toxic by the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims, who demand justice for the Palestinian people.’

Last week, the American-brokered 1979 Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty — a key underpinning of Israel’s regional hegemony — came under open criticism from Egypt itself. The treaty was ‘not a holy book’, said Egypt’s prime minister, Dr Essam Sharaf. It would need to be revised. Amr Mousa, the leading candidate for the Egyptian presidency, has called for the treaty’s military annexes to be reviewed so as to allow Egyptian troops to be deployed in Sinai.

As for Iran, denunciation of the US and Israel can be expected from President Ahmadinejad when he addresses the UN General Assembly. The failure to engage with Iran — demonising it as a threat to the whole world, rather than working to incorporate it into the security architecture of the Gulf region — has been one of Obama’s gravest policy mistakes.

Turkey, Iran and Egypt, heirs to ancient civilisations, are thus asserting themselves against what they see as an Israeli upstart. Saudi Arabia, the region’s oil and financial giant, guardian of Islam’s holiest sites, is breaking free from the constraints of the American alliance.

Israel stands accused. Will it heed the message or shoot the messenger? If true to its past form, it might well try to fight its way out of the box in which it now finds itself, further destabilising the region and attracting to itself further opprobrium.

As for the United States, bound hand and foot by Israeli interests, it seems to have abdicated the leading role in the Arab-Israeli peace process it has played for so long — but with so little effect. Disillusion with President Barack Obama is now total. Others must now take up the baton. Many believe the time has come to break the dangerous stalemate with some coercive diplomacy. Will Europe take up the challenge?


Patrick Seale is a commentator and author of several books on Middle East affairs.
 
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Obama's effort to reconstruct its relationship with the Muslim World will be totally in vain right now just for Israel.
 
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Obama's effort to reconstruct its relationship with the Muslim World will be totally in vain right now just for Israel.

Obama is no longer trusted to deliver, anyway:

We are now witnessing a rebellion against these policies by the region’s heavyweights — in effect a rebellion against American and Israeli hegemony as spectacular as the Arab Spring itself.

All these heavy weights have conflicts with each other and yet they are united in opposition to the US policies -- How did it come to this? It's incredible that so few in the US see events in the same light.
 
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in Lebanon's case, that is factually incorrect. The civil war is long over.

even in PA, Fatah and Hamas are no longer duking it out




that's what the spin-masters say, however me personally im not convinced nor do i buy that argument

it's difficult to "sell that argument" to somebody who is informed on the conflict.

by the way, you've had leaders who openly said that Arabs are not human and should be eradicated. What is your response to that?

it's more of a moral stand, not about supporting terrorism

though I don't believe either Hamas or Hezbollah are terrorist organizations. Hamas in the past could be classified as terrorist organization but they no longer use suicide bombers or terrorism for their purposes. They are now using alternate means, they are maturing.




israel didnt exist until 1948 :lol:

majority of israelis are not even indigenous to the lands....they have no ethnic or other affiliation with the middle east even --except perhaps the minority Sephardics[/QUOTE]

Maybe it is not convenient for you to accept but much more Lebanese and Palestinians were killed by their own "brothers" than Israel unfortunately hurt during military campaigns to defend itself.

If Hamas and Hizbuallha are not terror organisations than what is exactly a terror organisation? Or Israelis are not entitle not to suffer attacks on their cities and towns?

Both of these primitive and barbaric groups intentionally murdered innocent civilians either with suicide bombing or with rockets. While Hiznuallha was deterred in 2006 from continuing with attacking civilians in Israel Hamas still firing rockets on planning to kidnap Israelis even nowadays.

The people of Israel is one of the oldest in the world and they lived in the Land of Israel when Pakistan was science fiction and there were no Palestinians. The Palestinians "discovered" their national identity only in the 1920's, until then they were just part of the Arab people and wanted to be part of Syria.
 
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well you certainly fought what you see as a terrorist using terror tactics....most cowardly ones too.


he was leaving a Mosque after Friday prayers obligation when your gunships sitting conveniently 1,000 feet above fired a salvo of rockets at him (he was in a wheelchair)


very noble action

*cough* Nawab Bugti *cough*
 
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This cartoon says it all and the huge different between the morality of Israel and its despicable enemies:

311057_2263663265367_1062032062_2596105_340309297_n.jpg


a f-16 flying 10 000 ft above that soldier would be more better. israel don't use soldiers to fight hamas, they use planes. :)
 
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Obama is no longer trusted to deliver, anyway:
All these heavy weights have conflicts with each other and yet they are united in opposition to the US policies -- How did it come to this? It's incredible that so few in the US see events in the same light.

It is essentially a few hundred Congressmen/Senators who are too scared and/or too beholden to the Lobby's influence to stand up for America.
Yes, the same Congress whose approval rating is below 20%. The same one which is widely accused of corruption, incompetence, and greed.
Anyone following the more 'liberal' American blogspace like NY Times can see that Americans are anguished and embarrassed by the Obama administration's cowering before the Lobby. History will duly note these traitors who harmed America's long term interests.
 
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It is essentially a few hundred Congressmen/Senators who are too scared and/or too beholden to the Lobby's influence to stand up for America.
Yes, the same Congress whose approval rating is below 20%. The same one which is widely accused of corruption, incompetence, and greed.
Anyone following the more 'liberal' American blogspace like NY Times can see that Americans are anguished and embarrassed by the Obama administration's cowering before the Lobby. History will duly note these traitors who harmed America's long term interests.

America has internal strength and can overcome the current crisis and I hope it will for the sake of humanity. Its other competitors for world leadership are either tyrant regimes with little respect for the human spirit or are reluctant to take any responsibility for international stability and ready to appease the worst regimes or both.

I bet that all this talking about corruption in the US government would be replaced with praised and cheers if Obama supported the Arabs and helped them to isolate Israel. Israel has a lot of power in the US because of the mutual values and interests between the two nations and the Israeli lobby do exactly what all the other lobbies are doing, only much better. This is the game and these are the rules for everyone.
 
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