Now, IAF wants new canopy for LCA

[El Sidd]

Sensible decision.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Well its clear, IAF doesn't want LCA but some how Govt enterprise HAL, deliberately wants to slap this little plane on them.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Well its clear, IAF doesn't want LCA but some how Govt enterprise HAL, deliberately wants to slap this little plane on them.

How in all hell does asking for upgrades on a fighter aircraft equate to "we don't want the fighter aircraft"?
I understand that pakistanis are always ready to lap up any anti Tejas news article stating the obvious but framed in a negative manner but c'mon, you lot can employ some common sense.

 

[Windjammer]

It's a brand new aircraft and has never been flown outside India. What is it that you are expecting? We have 11 jets, so you can expect these to be flown by experienced pilots after all. Even our the initial lot of 36 Rafales will see experienced pilots flying first.

That's why I said we have tons of experienced Mig-21 pilots available and don't need a two seat trainer in a hurry. Hell, that's also why the IAF is willing to wait an extra year for it.

Ultimately, the trainer will be necessary over the next 10+ years when rookies are expected to perform complex missions right away on the advanced single seats coming up. The Mk1A will have a very complex integrated avionics suite, and will be completely integrated with the IACCS. So they have to deal with very complex data from the get-go. While in the US, the rookie F-35 pilots transition to the F-35 from the F-16, we can use a trainer to do the same. The Hawk and the trainer variant will give them a proper 4th gen fighter experience before the pilots qualify to fly the Mk1A. The current IOC and FOC versions are pretty basic as far as 4th gen aircraft are concerned, so do not need special training. Rookie pilots can transition to the FOC version straightaway, if they are given the chance to do so.

Or are you saying the JF-17 pilots are pretty pathetic since there is no two seat variant to train them even after 8 years?

We know you like to create an impression, however since you dragged in the JF-17, let me remind you there are some half a dozen JF-17 squadrons operational without the benefit of a trainer....that is around 100 aircraft and it has visited all international airshow venues. Can you dare to field half a dozen Tejas units without the benefit of a trainer......hoping those MiG-21 pilots will manage this.
As for as F-35 transition, well you make it sound easy but let me remind you, the likes of the RAF never operated the F-16s.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

We know you like to create an impression, however since you dragged in the JF-17, let me remind you there are some half a dozen JF-17 squadrons operational without the benefit of a trainer....that is around 100 aircraft and it has visited all international airshow venues. Can you dare to field half a dozen Tejas units without the benefit of a trainer......hoping those MiG-21 pilots will manage this.
As for as F-35 transition, well you make it sound easy but let me remind you, the likes of the RAF never operated the F-16s.

Umm dude, there's already a dozen Tejas units operational now without a trainer.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

How in all hell does asking for upgrades on a fighter aircraft equate to "we don't want the fighter aircraft"?
I understand that pakistanis are always ready to lap up any anti Tejas news article stating the obvious but framed in a negative manner but c'mon, you lot can employ some common sense.

They could had inducted the plane in its present form and later do all the upgrades on incremental basis. Its clear, they just don't want the plane so as your Navy.

 

[aman_rai]

They could had inducted the plane in its present form and later do all the upgrades on incremental basis. Its clear, they just don't want the plane so as your Navy.

This is difference between IAF and paf...
We don't want half baked aircraft

 

[MimophantSlayer]

They could had inducted the plane in its present form and later do all the upgrades on incremental basis. Its clear, they just don't want the plane so as your Navy.

I realize that you people really love to concentrate on the interpretation of the facts from other people with agendas than on the actual facts themselves, but here, hear it from the horse's mouth i.e. Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar


As far as the Make in India plan goes, we are at the moment procuring the LCA Mk I. It is being purchased in two stages: We have the IOC (Initial Operational Clearance) variant, 20 of which were ordered in 2006, of which nine have been delivered and the remaining eleven, we believe will be delivered in the next two years. We have ordered another 20 LCAs, which are the FOC (Final Operational Clearance) variant, and these will be delivered after the IOC variant is complete. The LCA Mark I fleet, we have restricted to these 40 aircraft.

Subsequent to the above, we intend to procure the Mark IA, which is an improved version of the LCA Mark I and has a new radar and advanced EW capabilities. It is, however, essentially the Mark I, with a few add ons. We have issued an RFP in December 2017, to get an additional 83 aircrafts of this type.

It must be stated that the LCA Mark 1 and Mark 1A are very good aircraft. We recently conducted a major exercise called Gagan Shakti, and the LCA performed remarkably well. The best range scores and the best weapon delivery emerged from the nine LCAs we had fielded, which really worked wonders. This gives me the confidence to state that the LCA will see us through the next 20 years, if not more, in technological capability terms.
The first squadron

of the LCA, 45 Squadron, also called the ‘Flying Daggers,’ has recently shifted from Bangalore, where they were being looked after by HAL to Sulur. They are now operating in a more operational scenario and are being put through the full spectrum of air operations as envisaged by the IAF.

Our aircraft of the future, as we perceive it as of today, is the LCA Mark II. This aircraft, we believe, will replace the MiG 29 in the next ten years, the Jaguar in the next 15 years and the Mirage 2000 in the next 20 years. All combined, this adds up to a total of twelve squadrons.

The requirements of the IAF for the LCA Mark II are centred on two crucial points. First, it has to be cutting edge, to the tune of its best electronic warfare capability and best weapons. As far as performance goes, we have pegged the performance to the level of the Mirage 2000, which is an aircraft already 35 years in our inventory. We are therefore not aiming for the moon, but for space at best. Therefore, our requirements have already been crystallised, our designers are at it, and given the fact that we have pitched ourselves at a level at which they are capable of generating and making, we will have an aircraft which will be in time in the next ten years or so. It will be the Mark II and will be a different breed of aircraft — probably bigger, probably more powerful and definitely capable of lifting much more load. We are envisaging an aircraft that can lift at least 6.5 tons of weapon load as compared to the LCA and LCA I which lifts about 3.8 tons.

We are also looking at six squadrons of fighter aircraft through the strategic partner route. A lot of doubting Thomas’s doubt whether this will happen. We believe it will. We believe we require this aircraft to bridge over the fighter gap which we see happening in our inventory as the years go by. Our future is the Advance Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). This is not just wishful thinking. We have committed land, money and a lot of thought to this programme, and we believe that in the next 15 years, we will have the AMCA prototype, the NGTD1 (Next Generation Technology Demonstrator) and the NGTD 2 flying. We intend to have this aircraft in collaboration with the DRDO, with the Public Private Partnership model, flying out of Sulur by that date. We have broad concurrence from the government, the DRDO is on board and an expression of interest is already in the market for establishing a partnership for the AMCA.

Our bottomline is to have indigenously built fighters which will form the bulk of the IAF inventory by 2032. Mark II of the LCA will be as many as 12 squadrons. That is how we envisage the IAF to be heading

 

[Placemat]

Yaar.. every time I want latest news on tejas I go to this site. How dudes? Do u have some automated news feed on tejas

 

[Windjammer]

Umm dude, there's already a dozen Tejas units operational now without a trainer.

Errr......The IAF is now posting only qualified flight instructors and fight combat leaders to Tejas squadron because we cannot risk young pilots flying the fighters.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Errr......The IAF is now posting only qualified flight instructors and fight combat leaders to Tejas squadron because we cannot risk young pilots flying the fighters.

And?

Tejas is a new fighter, only 2 years since its induction and with barely one squadron operational.
You expect a squadron with a new fighter with just 12 units to somehow have a healthy inflow of young pilots like say in mature platforms like the Su-30MKI?
For the current Tejas squadron without a trainer, this is a completely natural progression.

You people are so eager to sling mud that all semblance of rational thought just goes out the window.

 

[Windjammer]

Umm dude, there's already a dozen Tejas units operational now without a trainer.

And?

Tejas is a new fighter, only 2 years since its induction and with barely one squadron operational.
You expect a squadron with a new fighter with just 12 units to somehow have a healthy inflow of young pilots like say in mature platforms like the Su-30MKI?
For the current Tejas squadron without a trainer, this is a completely natural progression.

You people are so eager to sling mud that all semblance of rational thought just goes out the window.

I think you first need to decide as what are you trying to say, impress, defend.

 

[hussain0216]

Look lets be clear the indian airforce
JUST DOSENT WANT THE PLANE!!!!

its time delaying and making excuses hoping they will get the hint

The cost figures for Tejas have been
Not that short of the Raphaels

IAF must be thinking WTF

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Yaar.. every time I want latest news on tejas I go to this site. How dudes? Do u have some automated news feed on tejas

I suggest you rely on diverse sources and not just one, but here.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hal-tejas-updates-news-discussions-thread-2.351401/

I think you first need to decide as what are you trying to say, impress, defend.

Oh boy. Your riposte is the result of years of having a confirmation bias about issues relating to the Tejas, i.e. you end up having a very myopic & binary view of the issue.

We Indians understand that the Tejas has had its fair share of problems and that it will continue to have its ups and down throughout its upgradation phase as it is impossible to have a clean, no failure R&D route, as Tejas is after all a fighter aircraft; but what we also do understand is that it is completely normal, i.e. all its achievements and hiccups.

What you pakistanis don't understand is that when a hiccup does surface and articles are written about the said hiccups, that does not automatically translate to the Tejas program shutting down, regardless of how much you wish for it to be so.

And see, you pakistanis would have understood this too, if pakistan had actually gone through the trouble of actually developing a fighter jet.

 

[randomradio]

That's thick coming from you lot considering how you lot been toeing this line for years about no dual seat JF17 available and how mighty Tejas between JF17 in this way. So what happened to dual seat Tejas? I am confused. Was the dual seat Tejas a lemon?

Trainers are necessary in the long run for the reasons explained. It has no relevance right now. So they are taking the extra time to fit in plumbing for mid-air refuelling. Right now, only the single seat versions have mid-air refuelling.

Well its clear, IAF doesn't want LCA but some how Govt enterprise HAL, deliberately wants to slap this little plane on them.

If IAF doesn't want something, nobody can pressure them into it.

Changing their mind requires extraordinary effort, which typically includes surpassing ASR, like HAL has accomplished with the HTT-40.

We know you like to create an impression, however since you dragged in the JF-17, let me remind you there are some half a dozen JF-17 squadrons operational without the benefit of a trainer....that is around 100 aircraft and it has visited all international airshow venues. Can you dare to field half a dozen Tejas units without the benefit of a trainer......hoping those MiG-21 pilots will manage this.

*yawn*

The JF-17 doesn't need a trainer for the same reason the IOC and FOC Tejas don't either. We don't plan on buying anymore 4th gen versions of the Tejas, so we can't take you up on your offer. 40 is plenty. In fact, there was a plan to even convert the FOC Tejas into Mk1As, but that plan flopped when the FOC was delayed by a year.

The Mk1A is a whole different ballgame, for rookie pilots. Integrated AESA+EW suite, IMA architecture, SDR, combined interrogator-transponder, followed by sharing data from AWACS and ground control through AFNET and IACCS. You don't simply jump in and start using these from day 1 without any prior experience. Instead of qualifying pilots on a different aircraft in a roundabout fashion, we have the trainers.

As for as F-35 transition, well you make it sound easy but let me remind you, the likes of the RAF never operated the F-16s.

RAF operates upgraded Harriers, Tornados and Typhoons, which are all 4th gen or higher. It's about the avionics and networking, not the performance.