No Deal? France Says it Might Never Deliver Mistral Ships to Russia

[duhastmish]

The war in Ukraine won't be over in 10 years. It won't be Holland who will deliver the ships to Russia.

Do you have any idea how much it will damage French defence industry.
Frenchie can't afford it during such hard times.
Let the war go on for 50 yr. The contract was made and french didn't full fill it. That's where it ends. War has nothing much to do. It was international pressure during g20

 

[ptldM3]

They're French proprety until we sign with them the act of delivery.

No they are not, Russia built the aft section of the ship, not to mention the Russian electronics/weapons systems onboard. Technically speaking about half of the ship is built with Russian labor and Russian material. Moreover, the entire ship has been fully paid for, withholding the ship is illegal and a breach of contract. It would be like you paying for a car in cash yet the seller pocketing the cash and not handing over the car.


The situation is not in France's favor, with the ship fully paid for and half not even built in France it leaves little room for France to do anything. I doubt that they can sell or simply keep the ships for themselves because much of it does not belong to them unless they plan on cutting away the Russian built section of the ship, and if that is the case they will flip the bill in labor and will have to pay for shipping and or scrapping.

One thing is clear, if France does not deliver they will not only have to pay back all of the money they received but they will also have to pay for breach of contract and compensate Russia for the hundreds of million it invested in building the aft section of the ship as well as all of the money Russia lost in raw material and labor cost. France will likely have to pay billions in compensation for breach of contract, not to mention give back all of Russia's money. France's reputation is also in the gutter, Russia will never again deal with France on a large level in terms of military equipment and many countries will not want to deal with France because of their unreliable and illegal nature.

 

[Superboy]

I don't get France. What's the point of withholding the ship? Is Russia at war with anyone?

 

[ptldM3]

I don't get France. What's the point of withholding the ship? Is Russia at war with anyone?

They are under pressure from Washington because of Ukraine. Russia is interfering in eastern Ukraine but no more then washington and the EU did during Maiden. The grand scheme of things is that the EU, NATO and the US want Ukraine so that they can leverage Russia and expand further on Russia's borders all the while they tell Russia that they should not feel threatened when the US helps over through governments on the Russian border and then parks tanks right on the Russian border.

Russia has been a thorn in Washington's side, constantly Challenging them on the global political stage and Vetoing US ambitions. Right now the US is trying to destroy the Russian economy with sanctions and manipulating oil prices, this all comes back to Russia standing in Washington's way.

 

[mike2000]

So,why did they order them if they were crappy ?

I wonder why he calls them crappy.lool I'm sure many world powers out there would love to own one, Russia and China included. Afterall, the fact that Moscow is ready to pay billions to own them, should make him think twice before uttering such words as 'crappy'.

 

[Superboy]

I wonder why he calls them crappy.lool I'm sure many world powers out there would love to own one, Russia and China included. Afterall, the fact that Moscow is ready to pay billions to own them, should make him think twice before uttering such words as 'crappy'.

France technology not as good as Russian technology. Rafale compared to PAK-FA, a whole level below. Mistral is a pretty old design. Has no modern air defense. Not even a CIWS like Type 071 has.

Type 071 amphibious transport dock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mike2000]

Sell those Mistrals to India.

Will indeed be good if India can buy these 'crappy' amphibious Assault ships. It will indeed boost India pwoer projection capabilities alot. I'm in favour of India buying them, though ndont think India will do so, even if France offered them, since India won't want to go against/anger its main/old Patron Russia.

France technology not as good as Russian technology. Rafale compared to PAK-FA, a whole level below. Mistral is a pretty old design. Has no modern air defense. Not even a CIWS like Type 071 has.

Type 071 amphibious transport dock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

lool France tech not as good as Russias? lool ok if you belive that its up to you. Though Russia is buying crappy tech from France, paying billions for them. guess Russia military officials/government must be fools. you should be their adviser then bro.

 

[Gabriel92]

@mike2000 Don't waste your time with him,if i can give you an adivce....
Also,if we delivered them,all those russians and "superboy",won't say Mistrals are crappy.

 

[Skull and Bones]

@mike2000 and @Gabriel92

There is an old saying in hindi, 'if you can't eat the grapes, they must be sour'.

Mistral is already going strong for our amphibious assault ship evaluation, along with Juan Carlos, we'll see who wins the tender for 4 platforms.

 

[Superboy]

If Russia wants, China can sell Type 071 at half the price of Mistral and it's a better ship too.

China soon transitions to the Type 081 which is far more advanced than Mistral.

Type 081 Aviation Assault Ship (LPH / LHA)

 

[SvenSvensonov]

If Russia wants, China can sell Type 071 at half the price of Mistral and it's a better ship too.

An LPD and an LHD are two different classes!!! Why are you comparing the two???

This:

Type: Amphibious transport dock
Displacement: 20,000 long tons (20,000 t)
Length: 210 m (689 ft 0 in)
Beam: 28 m (91 ft 10 in)
Draft: 7 m (23 ft 0 in)
Propulsion: CODAD
4 × Shaanxi 16 PC2.6 V400 diesel engines, 47,200 hp (35,197 kW)
2 × shafts [1]
Speed: 22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph)+
Range: 6,000 nmi (11,000 km) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph)
Boats & landing
craft carried: • 4 × Type 726 Yuyi class LCAC
• 2 × landing craft on port/starboard davits
Capacity: 15-20 armoured vehicles
Troops: 500-800 troops
Complement: 120
Sensors and
processing systems: • 1 × Type 360 Radar Seagull S, E/F-band surface search radar
• 1 × Type 364 Radar, Seagull C, G-band air search radar aft
• 1 × Type 344 Radar, I band fire control radar
• 1 × navigational radar
Armament: • 1 × AK-176 76 mm (3.0 in) gun
• 4 × AK-630 30 mm (1.2 in) CIWS
• 4 × 18-tube Type 726-4 decoy/chafflauncher
• Possible installation of 2-4 heavy machine guns (Fitted for but not with)
Aircraft carried: 4 Z-8 Super Frelon

Has a different role then this does:

Type: Landing helicopter dock
Displacement: 16,500 tonnes (empty)
21,300 tonnes (full load)
Length: 199 m (653 ft)
Beam: 32 m (105 ft)
Draught: 6.3 m (21 ft)
Installed power: 3 Wärtsilä diesel-alternators 16 V32 (6.2 MW) + 1 Wärtsilä Vaasa auxiliary diesel-alternator 18V200 (3 MW)
Propulsion: 2 Rolls-Royce Mermaid azimuth thrusters (2 × 7 MW), 2 five-bladed propellers
Speed: 18.8 knots (35 km/h)
Range: 10,800 km (5,800 nmi) at 18 knots (33 km/h)
19,800 kilometres (10,700 nmi) at 15 knots (28 km/h)
Boats & landing
craft carried: 4 CTM (chaland de transport de matériel)
alternatively, 2 LCAC (Landing Craft, Air Cushion)
Capacity: 59 vehicles (including 13 AMX-56 Leclerc tanks) or a 40-strong Leclerc tank battalion
Troops: 900 (short duration)
450 (long durations)
150 (serving as operational headquarters)
Complement: 20 officers, 80 petty officers, 60 quarter-masters
Sensors and
processing systems: DRBN-38A Decca Bridgemaster E250 navigation radar
MRR3D-NG air/surface sentry radar
2 optronic fire control systems
Armament: 2 × Simbad systems
4 × 12.7 mm M2-HB Browning machine guns
Aircraft carried: 16 heavy or 35 light helicopters
Aviation facilities: 6 helicopter landing spots

Each type of Amphibious Warfare Ship has a different role, even if they look the same (such as an LHA versus an LHD). It's hard not to confuse them, but at least make the effort.

• LHA: Landing Helicopter Assault (USS Tarawa class)
• LHD: Landing Helicopter Dock (USS Wasp class)
• LPH: Landing Platform Helicopter (Iwo Jima class)
• LPD: Landing Platform Dock
• LSD: Landing Ship Dock
• LSI: Landing Ship, Infantry was previously designated as Landing Craft, Infantry
• LSL: Landing Ship Logistics
• LSM: Landing Ship Medium
• LST: Landing Ship Tank
• LCC: Amphibious Command Ship, unrelated to the Landing Craft, Control (LCC)
• AGF: Auxiliary Command Ship
• AKA/LKA: Attack cargo ship
• AP/APA/LPA: Auxiliary Personnel Assault
• ARL: Landing Craft Repair Ship (USS Achelous (ARL-1) class)

 

[mike2000]

No they are not, Russia built the aft section of the ship, not to mention the Russian electronics/weapons systems onboard. Technically speaking about half of the ship is built with Russian labor and Russian material. Moreover, the entire ship has been fully paid for, withholding the ship is illegal and a breach of contract. It would be like you paying for a car in cash yet the seller pocketing the cash and not handing over the car.


The situation is not in France's favor, with the ship fully paid for and half not even built in France it leaves little room for France to do anything. I doubt that they can sell or simply keep the ships for themselves because much of it does not belong to them unless they plan on cutting away the Russian built section of the ship, and if that is the case they will flip the bill in labor and will have to pay for shipping and or scrapping.

One thing is clear, if France does not deliver they will not only have to pay back all of the money they received but they will also have to pay for breach of contract and compensate Russia for the hundreds of million it invested in building the aft section of the ship as well as all of the money Russia lost in raw material and labor cost. France will likely have to pay billions in compensation for breach of contract, not to mention give back all of Russia's money. France's reputation is also in the gutter, Russia will never again deal with France on a large level in terms of military equipment and many countries will not want to deal with France because of their unreliable and illegal nature.

Nope countries will still deal with France irregardless of if France cancels the deal or not. Russias case is different and unique, and wont apply for other countries. Reason France is still selling its weapons systems with several countries in the world, afterall i havent seen India cancelling its Rafale purchase(worth billions of dollars which moscow was eying and got angry for not getting the deal.lol). So many countries will stillkeep up their trade with France.

If Russia wants, China can sell Type 071 at half the price of Mistral and it's a better ship too.

China soon transitions to the Type 081 which is far more advanced than Mistral.

Type 081 Aviation Assault Ship (LPH / LHA)

Good thing you said 'SOON' transitions.loool That's in future terms not present continous term. We are talking about the present, afterall, many countries also have 'SOON' transitions weapons programs in their books bros.

Moreover no matter how advanced your amphibious ships might be, Russia will never buy them from you(even at a discount with full TOT), they have too much pride to buy from a country they onced considered their junior partner. they will rather buy from us in the West,Israel(or even U.S) than China, even with the risk of us imposing sanctions on them later.

 

[Superboy]

France has never been a naval power. Lost to Britain on the seas countless times. Humiliated by Horatio Nelson. Don't know why anyone would buy a French ship

 

[mike2000]

An LPD and an LHD are two different classes!!! Why are you comparing the two???

This:
View attachment 161301

Type: Amphibious transport dock
Displacement: 20,000 long tons (20,000 t)
Length: 210 m (689 ft 0 in)
Beam: 28 m (91 ft 10 in)
Draft: 7 m (23 ft 0 in)
Propulsion: CODAD
4 × Shaanxi 16 PC2.6 V400 diesel engines, 47,200 hp (35,197 kW)
2 × shafts [1]
Speed: 22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph)+
Range: 6,000 nmi (11,000 km) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph)
Boats & landing
craft carried: • 4 × Type 726 Yuyi class LCAC
• 2 × landing craft on port/starboard davits
Capacity: 15-20 armoured vehicles
Troops: 500-800 troops
Complement: 120
Sensors and
processing systems: • 1 × Type 360 Radar Seagull S, E/F-band surface search radar
• 1 × Type 364 Radar, Seagull C, G-band air search radar aft
• 1 × Type 344 Radar, I band fire control radar
• 1 × navigational radar
Armament: • 1 × AK-176 76 mm (3.0 in) gun
• 4 × AK-630 30 mm (1.2 in) CIWS
• 4 × 18-tube Type 726-4 decoy/chafflauncher
• Possible installation of 2-4 heavy machine guns (Fitted for but not with)
Aircraft carried: 4 Z-8 Super Frelon

Has a different role then this does:

View attachment 161302
Type: Landing helicopter dock
Displacement: 16,500 tonnes (empty)
21,300 tonnes (full load)
Length: 199 m (653 ft)
Beam: 32 m (105 ft)
Draught: 6.3 m (21 ft)
Installed power: 3 Wärtsilä diesel-alternators 16 V32 (6.2 MW) + 1 Wärtsilä Vaasa auxiliary diesel-alternator 18V200 (3 MW)
Propulsion: 2 Rolls-Royce Mermaid azimuth thrusters (2 × 7 MW), 2 five-bladed propellers
Speed: 18.8 knots (35 km/h)
Range: 10,800 km (5,800 nmi) at 18 knots (33 km/h)
19,800 kilometres (10,700 nmi) at 15 knots (28 km/h)
Boats & landing
craft carried: 4 CTM (chaland de transport de matériel)
alternatively, 2 LCAC (Landing Craft, Air Cushion)
Capacity: 59 vehicles (including 13 AMX-56 Leclerc tanks) or a 40-strong Leclerc tank battalion
Troops: 900 (short duration)
450 (long durations)
150 (serving as operational headquarters)
Complement: 20 officers, 80 petty officers, 60 quarter-masters
Sensors and
processing systems: DRBN-38A Decca Bridgemaster E250 navigation radar
MRR3D-NG air/surface sentry radar
2 optronic fire control systems
Armament: 2 × Simbad systems
4 × 12.7 mm M2-HB Browning machine guns
Aircraft carried: 16 heavy or 35 light helicopters
Aviation facilities: 6 helicopter landing spots

Each type of Amphibious Warfare Ship has a different role, even if they look the same (such as an LHA versus an LHD). It's hard not to confuse them, but at least make the effort.

• LHA: Landing Helicopter Assault (USS Tarawa class)
• LHD: Landing Helicopter Dock (USS Wasp class)
• LPH: Landing Platform Helicopter (Iwo Jima class)
• LPD: Landing Platform Dock
• LSD: Landing Ship Dock
• LSI: Landing Ship, Infantry was previously designated as Landing Craft, Infantry
• LSL: Landing Ship Logistics
• LSM: Landing Ship Medium
• LST: Landing Ship Tank
• LCC: Amphibious Command Ship, unrelated to the Landing Craft, Control (LCC)
• AGF: Auxiliary Command Ship
• AKA/LKA: Attack cargo ship
• AP/APA/LPA: Auxiliary Personnel Assault
• ARL: Landing Craft Repair Ship (USS Achelous (ARL-1) class)

Exactly, China as far as i know doesnt even have an LHD yet,they are still 'planning' on building one. So he can keep calling France's mistral LHD as 'crappy', while they themselves haven't been able to build one yet. thats an irony.

 

[Superboy]

Exactly, China as far as i know doesnt even have an LHD yet,they are still 'planning' on building one. So he can keep calling France's mistral LHD as 'crappy', while they themselves haven't been able to build one yet. thats an irony.

Yet France has no destroyer like China does Type 071 fulfill serve any country's amphibious warfare needs.