New tailwinds for Kaveri engine

[That Guy]

well, WS is not matured enough , even Chinese don't use them , or else you have WS engine in your JF plane. any engine which lasted only for an hours is not certified military engine.

That's not totally true. The Chinese are using the WS engines, but in a limited batch and only for testing purposes. There have been attempts to replace foreign engines with domestic ones, but they've failed because of poor quality control and poor manufacturing practices. This is not to mention that while the WS engines are indeed more powerful than their Russian counterparts, they tend to have a lower lifespan and higher maintenance cost.

 

[fast]

IF, a big if, fit Kaveri into Mig 29 what will happens?

Kaveri is heavier around 200 kg whereas the thrust is same. can Mig 29 'adjust' 400kg extra weight at the cost of promoting own engine?

Kaveri fitted into the Mig 29 would make the perfect flying coffin. 100% ground smashing rate!

 

[AMCA]

Kaveri fitted into the Mig 29 would make the perfect flying coffin. 100% ground smashing rate!

Troll Alert... Mods... Your attention Please

 

[IND151]

Considering that both are in development, I disagree. Kaveri has as much a chance at becoming a reality as the WS has, the only difference is that the WS will roll out first.

Derated Kaveri will definitely serve as powerplant for AURA; MTCR doesn't allow nations to export engine for UCAVs.

So India will have no choice but develop Kaveri further.

Auto engines are different from plane engines. Its not possible to make Kavari a car engine,. Its just ridiculous to salvage this project by trying to make this a train or boat engine. What India should do is learn from their mistakes and then try to improve upon this engine for the next generation plane. However, India should not tie the AMCA to Kavari either this time. If Kavari is there, fine, use it. If not, it should have other options. Maybe India can build commercial planes by then and it can use Kavari for the commercial planes.

This may happen

 

[Brahmos_2]

Auto engines are different from plane engines. Its not possible to make Kavari a car engine,. Its just ridiculous to salvage this project by trying to make this a train or boat engine. What India should do is learn from their mistakes and then try to improve upon this engine for the next generation plane. However, India should not tie the AMCA to Kavari either this time. If Kavari is there, fine, use it. If not, it should have other options. Maybe India can build commercial planes by then and it can use Kavari for the commercial planes.

Kaveri is a low bypass afterburning turbofan engine...it is not suitable for commercial planes..

 

[IND151]

Kaveri is a low bypass afterburning turbofan engine...it is not suitable for commercial planes..

Commercial planes use engines which don't have afterburner.

Non afterburner version of low bypass afterburning turbofan engine can be used as power plant for commercial plane.

For example, non-afterburning civilian versions of Soloviev D-30 , the D-30Kp and D-30KU are used in the Ilyushin Il-62M and Tupolev Tu-154M airliners, and in the Ilyushin Il-76MD, TD heavy cargo aircraft.

It has dry thrust of 9,500 kg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soloviev_D-30

 

[Brahmos_2]

Commercial planes use engines which don't have afterburner.

Non afterburner version of low bypass afterburning turbofan engine can be used as power plant for commercial plane.

For example, non-afterburning civilian versions of Soloviev D-30 , the D-30Kp and D-30KU are used in the Ilyushin Il-62M and Tupolev Tu-154M airliners, and in the Ilyushin Il-76MD, TD heavy cargo aircraft.

It has dry thrust of 9,500 kg.

Soloviev D-30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, non afterburning versions can be used...but the point is low bypass engines are typical design for military jets...it is not economical to use such versions in civilian aircrafts because of high fuel consumption.

To convert a low bypass engine to a high bypass, it requires a major modification..

Usually most of the turbo fan engines have two stage compressor(low pressure & High pressure)

In the case of low bypass engines like Kaveri, the L.P compressor acts as both compressor and fan..

But in high bypass engines, along with L.P & H.P compressor, it have a dedicated fan..

 

[AADHAAR]

It's a good decision to test Kaveri on a twin-engine aircraft like Mig-29.

 

[Echo_419]

Commercial planes use engines which don't have afterburner.

Non afterburner version of low bypass afterburning turbofan engine can be used as power plant for commercial plane.

For example, non-afterburning civilian versions of Soloviev D-30 , the D-30Kp and D-30KU are used in the Ilyushin Il-62M and Tupolev Tu-154M airliners, and in the Ilyushin Il-76MD, TD heavy cargo aircraft.

It has dry thrust of 9,500 kg.

Soloviev D-30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They should continue to further work upon it & test new technologies & develop it further
Developing engines is very important & DRDO should get some foreign Engine maker to help
France or Russia are good they always provide TOT

 

[Indischer]

Buy the way can you please fax GRTE the composition of the super alloys that can withstand 2000-3000 degree at extreme high pressure and high kinetic energy.

also the file that you have on your desk about the single crystal blade technology , composite moulding , laser cutting and other such silly technology.

India's largest automaker tata has not developed good engine for its car, same goes to mahindra.( dicor and megale are from AVL not inhouse)
even when we dont know how to make a good auto-mobile engine , do you think 100s of time more complex jet engines can be made easily.



-

Please send me 1200 guys who have PhDs in metallurgy, Thermodynamics etc, a cheque for Rs 25000 Crore and some time, like around 25 years, and maybe then I'll indeed fax them the blueprint of a low-bypass turbofan engine.

Why are you comparing the efforts of a private carmaker who has to break-even and generate profits every year with a Governmental agency who has never had to face a cash crunch and never accounted for all the money spent on it? If Tata were running GTRE, they'd have fired the entire staff of so-called scientists and engineers who're more into dodging the next review on progress than into working their back off to fulfill their commitments. (btw, our single crystal blades werent developed in-house either. They were taught by the Russkies and adapted here. At HAL, the rejection rate for every batch of such blades made in-house is still around 70-80%!!)

 

[Lightningbolt]

we talking about this failed project again.

Don't worry, it will remain a failed project.
NATO Indians will guarantee it

 

[Guynextdoor2]

GTRE is the biggest, whitest elephant in the whole of India! Nothing has come of it so far but some Wind from beneath it's Tail! They were specifically asked to build an engine to power an airplane and 25 years and billions of rupees later, they say their engine is good for marine applications!

Explain to me...how do you build a 'high performance' jet engine equal to Eurofighter or whatever FROM SCRATCH in HALF A BILLION USD (yeah...that's 2100 Cr). I don't think it's GTRE's fault altoghether...I think it is also the fault of the morons who direct the funding. Right now the cost of the entire Kaveri project is about the cost of two PAK FA planes I guess. GTRE has an engine that works...and we're complaning?

 

[Indischer]

Explain to me...how do you build a 'high performance' jet engine equal to Eurofighter or whatever FROM SCRATCH in HALF A BILLION USD (yeah...that's 2100 Cr). I don't think it's GTRE's fault altoghether...I think it is also the fault of the morons who direct the funding. Right now the cost of the entire Kaveri project is about the cost of two PAK FA planes I guess. GTRE has an engine that works...and we're complaning?

Explain to me...how do you build a 'high performance' jet engine equal to Eurofighter or whatever FROM SCRATCH in HALF A BILLION USD (yeah...that's 2100 Cr). I don't think it's GTRE's fault altoghether...I think it is also the fault of the morons who direct the funding. Right now the cost of the entire Kaveri project is about the cost of two PAK FA planes I guess. GTRE has an engine that works...and we're complaning?

GTRE did NOT start from scratch in their efforts to build an aircraft engine. They had previously carried out major modifications on every subcomponent of the Orpheus engine to a great extant. They had already built a "demo" aircraft engine called GTX 37-14U B before going on to start work on the Kaveri. the Organization isn't comprised of a bunch of fools, but good scientists some of whom have studied at the best Unis, Institutes. Sadly, it's their work culture that's appalling.(I had to interact with GTRE in my previous work). And well, 2100 Crore is 21 billion Rupees. I don't think I was wrong there.

And please do not compare the costs needed for building such engines on absolute terms. Given the highly favorable purchasing power parity for India, an in-house effort ought not to cost the same as in Western Nations.

I again stand by my statement that GTRE has not delivered anything for all the investment that has gone into it so far. They claim mastery over certain subsystems, but the whole package is what the IAF needs, not just the compressor unit or ignition turbine etc. And also, it was GTRE itself which rejected any sort of partnership with private industry or foreign firms. They claimed all the while they were good enough to iron out problems in the Kaveri and only reluctantly sought Snecma's help when time and cost overruns had almost ruined the purpose of that engine. Whoever asked them to do that in the first place!

 

[Guynextdoor2]

GTRE did NOT start from scratch in their efforts to build an aircraft engine. They had previously carried out major modifications on every subcomponent of the Orpheus engine to a great extant. They had already built a "demo" aircraft engine called GTX 37-14U B before going on to start work on the Kaveri. the Organization isn't comprised of a bunch of fools, but good scientists some of whom have studied at the best Unis, Institutes. Sadly, it's their work culture that's appalling.(I had to interact with GTRE in my previous work). And well, 2100 Crore is 21 billion Rupees. I don't think I was wrong there.

And please do not compare the costs needed for building such engines on absolute terms. Given the highly favorable purchasing power parity for India, an in-house effort ought not to cost the same as in Western Nations.

I again stand by my statement that GTRE has not delivered anything for all the investment that has gone into it so far. They claim mastery over certain subsystems, but the whole package is what the IAF needs, not just the compressor unit or ignition turbine etc. And also, it was GTRE itself which rejected any sort of partnership with private industry or foreign firms. They claimed all the while they were good enough to iron out problems in the Kaveri and only reluctantly sought Snecma's help when time and cost overruns had almost ruined the purpose of that engine. Whoever asked them to do that in the first place!

Buddy, any project that builds the whole thing is wayyy more complex than building sub-systems. I don't think that in a project requiring such major international linkages a PPP based compare works.

 

[Indischer]

Buddy, any project that builds the whole thing is wayyy more complex than building sub-systems. I don't think that in a project requiring such major international linkages a PPP based compare works.

I brought up the PPP comparison because in highly technical projects, skilled manpower accounts for over a third of the total spending on that project. Since our skilled manpower, local machinery and local transportation costs are nowhere near those of developed nations, it ought to be taken into context as well. (GTRE has relied upon HAL and SAIL for a large part of it's fabrication needs.)