Nawaz Sharif Wins; Imran Khan fails. The end of Imran Khan is now official. Nawaz Sharif returning to his original status of ruler of Pakistan.

[Behram Khilji]

I agree with this in general. No doubt there is a strong component of class to establishment.

But you can’t deny that race or ethnicity is not a consideration as far as establishment acts. The evidence of history is that it definitely has played a part. Again vis a vis the Bengalis and the CSS quotas against the Muhajjirs. I am sure that if we reflect on this, we’ll see that Balochis actually are also victims of similar nature.

Anyways, this may fit into your larger argument that the establishment acts like this to foment ethnic and regional tensions that they can exploit.

Yes and no, we are not bengalis, we are turanic people, we have a different mentality.

Not all of us like education, not all of us prefer being tied down, we at heart still are nomadic people.

We like a an awara free life, and well if you want to progress then education and business is a must.

 

[Goenitz]

No, I wanted to know whether god intends our country to fail and millions of people suffering as a result of it, or is he actually not a good planer contrary to what you have said?

@Conqueror @Salik
God has left worldly matters in human hands. He intervenes very rarely. He could have given victory to Muslims w/o reaching badar. Holy Prophet SW was injured during Taif visit and in Uhad battle. It shows, God let the world works as it is and in this case, stones hit and Prophet SW got injured/bled.
If a group is on the right path, then let enemies hatch all evil as they cannot outmaster God's plan. Hence, the right people will triumph in the end.

The misery in Pakistan is due to our own actions. We let merit/accountability die. The suffering is collective even if some people did the right thing.

 

[Ssan]

Against Muhajirs??

Liaquat Ali Khan, a Muhajir himself, reserved 15% quota in services for Muhajirs (despite the fact that they hardly made up 2% of the population) declaring that Muhajirs were superior and more educated compared to the locals.

What's with the victim mindset?

What the **** are you talking about???

I am talking about splitting Sindh into urban and rural. Done nowhere else.

 

[TheSolution]

Kashmiri Butt isn't an ethnicity. That is a Punjabi tribe.

Nawaz Sharif and his fam are Punjabi.

 

[M. Sarmad]

What the **** are you talking about???

I am talking about splitting Sindh into urban and rural. Done nowhere else.

Yahya Khan, by introducing 60:40 quota in 1970, only tried to reverse the damage done by Liaquat Ali Khan who introduced the quota system in 1948 and reserved 15% quota for Muhajirs alone (almost the same % of seats as were reserved for entire Sindh, KP and Balochistan combined)

 

[Ssan]

What the **** are you talking about???

I am talking about splitting Sindh into urban and rural. Done nowhere else.

And if you are talking about quota system in 1948, even that was done to limit Muhajjirs and Bengalis who were dominating the bureaucracy. Muhajjirs more so than others were limited to no more than 17% if you include those with no domicile and Karachi. The Punjabis were favored at the expense of Bengalis and Muhajjirs who were prwctically the majority due to the CSS prior to the quotas.

Yahya Khan, by introducing 60:40 quota in 1970, only tried to reverse the damage done by Liaquat Ali Khan who introduced the quota system in 1948 and reserved 15% quota for Muhajirs alone (almost the same % of seats as were reserved for entire Sindh, KP and Balochistan combined)

What damage? The muhajjirs never asked for quotas. We were against it from day one. Remove the quotas altogether. The quotas even in 1948 were placed to limit the muhajjirs not to assist us. And also the Bengalis.

 

[TheSolution]

What happened in 2013 general elections?

You can't deny ethnic politics was used by the establishment to achieve their goals of divide and conquer because then why was MQM created? Zardari turned PPP from national party to a Sindhi party. Establishment also used a mix of ethnic parties in Balochistan as well.

Its not hard to create a unified force like Modi did for Indians. I mean bro, IK somehow put 2 political powerhouses Punjab and KPK on the same page and also got Muhajir/Urdu speakers there too. So there was some sort of driving force in the diaspora and at home.

I think there will be a serious divide in the Pakistani society post-PTI.

I agree with you brotha, just sometimes

 

[Goenitz]

But you can’t deny that race or ethnicity is not a consideration as far as establishment acts. The evidence of history is that it definitely has played a part. Again vis a vis the Bengalis and the CSS quotas against the Muhajjirs. I am sure that if we reflect on this, we’ll see that Balochis actually are also victims of similar nature.

Baloch suffered bcz they lacked opportunities in their locality. The same goes for FATA people.
It is feasible for a certain ethnic powerful person to have aides/minions from the same ethnicity or caste etc. Such as, when IK came, all the PMO staff were Pashtun.
Other than that, caste/race/religion/ is utilised by politicians/establishment for biased support or backing. Bengalis were neglected though, I explain below.

Liaquat Ali Khan, a Muhajir himself, reserved 15% quota in services for Muhajirs (despite the fact that they hardly made up 2% of the population) declaring that Muhajirs were superior and more educated compared to the locals.

Bengalis were neglected though they were pioneers of the Pakistan movement. The other powerhouse was UP. Our entire bureaucracy came for UP, including politicians like Liaqat Alikhan, Bogra, etc. UP people have discriminated against Biharis, and Biharis looked down on Bengalis for centuries. After 47, the main govt workforce in E.Pak was Biharis as they know Urdu/Hindi. Overall, Bengalis were neglected despite being the majority and they formed M.League.

hence, I am not sure that 15% is a true figure but plausible as initial leaders brought people from the same region and also they were very good at their job.

Can anybody look at the reasons like the locations of civil and military academies before 47! that can explain why UP people were dominant in this area.

 

[M. Sarmad]

... The Punjabis were favored at the expense of Bengalis and Muhajjirs who were prwctically the majority due to the CSS prior to the quotas.

Get your facts straight. In 1948, Punjabis were 28% of the population but their quota was reserved at 23%

Muhajir quota was 15% and they didn't even make 3-4% of the population

And here you are telling us that Punjabis were favored at the expense of Muhajirs !!

 

[TheSolution]

Yes, there are neutral sources that say Ahmad Shah was born in Multan

And then there are Pashtun racist sources that vehemently deny this

You obviously accept the latter

Nothing more to discuss here

I would never trust an Afghan source unless it's supported by outsider foreigners/neutrals

 

[HAIDER]

My friend came to Canada, a stable businessman in Karachi. He is saying the economy is beyond control. The economy is fvcked up guys ...no dollar in the market. No LC.

 

[Ssan]

Get your facts straight. In 1948, Punjabis were 28% of the population but their quota was reserved at 23%

Muhajir quota was 15% and they didn't even make 3-4% of the population

And here you are telling us that Punjabis were favored at the expense of Muhajirs !!

Look at the numbers before the quotas - in 1946/1947, practically the entire bureaucracy was muhajjir and Bengali. The quotas reduced the proportion. They were there to benefit the Punjabis and others at expense of Muhajjirs and Bengalis.

 

[TheSolution]

The misery in Pakistan is due to our own actions. We let merit/accountability die. The suffering is collective even if some people did the right thing.

The truth is because this society allows nepotism and corruption to thrive, they engage in severe jahiliyat, each and every one of them, some on more extreme levels than others. Then they look up to other societies which are fundamentally different on grass root levels and complain why they are like this.

Each and every ethnicity suffers from jahiliyat and anti-Islamic practices on a spectrum and allows the practice of nepotism and corruption which eats up Pakistan like a parasite.

Pakistan could never fall unless the people are the ones behind it.

Pass a law that anyone caught engaging in nepotism or corruption within government institutions face the death penalty. Beheading.

Pakistan has also never had a truly intelligent visionary leader that is a nationalist. It has had opportunistic people viewing things as a job and means to siphon money. Those that personally have a desire to make Pakistan succeed would find the most ideal societal solutions to make it thrive right down to tiny miniscule details.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Look at the numbers before the quotas - in 1946/1947, practically the entire bureaucracy was muhajjir and Bengali. The quotas reduced the proportion. They were there to benefit the Punjabis and others at expense of Muhajjirs and Bengalis.

Well, then post those numbers here
I will gladly prove you wrong
I am sure you have no idea what you are going on about

 

[Ssan]

Look at the numbers before the quotas - in 1946/1947, practically the entire bureaucracy was muhajjir and Bengali. The quotas reduced the proportion. They were there to benefit the Punjabis and others at expense of Muhajjirs and Bengalis.

First Karachi was limited to 2%. Second while, those without domicile were at 15%, once they settled in Karachi, they would no longer qualify for the 15%, that you so unreasonably assume they would get. This was so they could pretend that they were going to be given something when in fact it was not going to last. The only reason muhajjirs continued to be over represented until the 70s was because the quotas weren’t enforced strictly.