Navies of friendly countries keen on Indian sonars

[Arya Desa]

might be to Myanmar, not BD

You are going to take our radar or we will give it to you and charge you 2x the electricity rate until we recover the losses.

 

[narcon]

Russian sonar technology is optimized for the colder and deeper waters of the Pacific ocean Baltic Sea etc. While Indian technology is optimized for the warmer shallow waters of the Indian ocean, Indochina sea etc.

The water temperature variation is nearly half at 750 meters from surface.
In other words, if you start to dive from the surface which has 30 degrees, when you reach 750 meters down, the temp would read 15 degrees.

What if the war breaks out during summer time?

What do you think how they control the sound propagation to its max worth/return circumventing various water temperature levels?

 

[Sahasranama]

Indian sonars are more advanced than Russia? I want proof?

Idiot, the proof is IN replacing Russian sonars with Indian sonars

You can not wish away the culture to change 180 degree in a jiffy!
Old traditions die hard

Why do you wish to change it ?

 

[axisofevil]

Idiot, the proof is IN replacing Russian sonars with Indian sonars



Why do you wish to change it ?

That doesn't mean much idiot. It only means we have a working INDIGENOUS product that may beat out Russian tech. That doesn't mean its the best. It just means it may be better than some shit tech tha Russia offered us. Russia has always kept its best tech close to its hand. A clear example would the T-90 Russian versions versus the Indian version, idiot

 

[Krate M]

The water temperature variation is nearly half at 750 meters from surface.
In other words, if you start to dive from the surface which has 30 degrees, when you reach 750 meters down, the temp would read 15 degrees.

What if the war breaks out during summer time.

Submarine depth ratings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Modern nuclear attack submarines like the American Seawolfclass are estimated to have a test depth of 490 m (1,600 ft)
Note that these are diving depths, operating depths are lesser than that and the temperature variations curve is sigmoid. Being present in the tropical to equatorial region, the temperature of the region is greater than Atlantic ocean. Also the continental shelf around the coast of India and China and its neighborhood extends extensively. So the depths are low, not to mention the uneven and changing floor of the ocean especially around the reefs and atolls. Also see Salinity Distribution at the Ocean Surface - Sea Surface Salinity - Remote Sensing
http://www.salinityremotesensing.if...an-surface/annual_clim_sst.png?attredirects=0
Regarding how they optimized it for those temperature - the answer is R&D.

 

[narcon]

Regarding how they optimized it for those temperature - the answer is R&D.

What R&D..
Sonar is up and running in all the submarines in the world.

 

[Gessler]

Most likely Vietnam, Myanmar, Nigeria & one unknown country - maybe Sri Lanka.

 

[narcon]

Note that these are diving depths, operating depths are lesser than that.

Most of the time, submarines are submerged at deeper depths and use their sonar systems to obtain fire control solutions on enemy targets.

 

[Sahasranama]

That doesn't mean much idiot. It only means we have a working INDIGENOUS product that may beat out Russian tech. That doesn't mean its the best. It just means it may be better than some shit tech tha Russia offered us. Russia has always kept its best tech close to its hand. A clear example would the T-90 Russian versions versus the Indian version, idiot

.... you have just admitted to Indian product being superior to Russian product AFTER asking for proof, and you call me an idiot. LOL.

LOL at you T-90 comment. It so absurd that even a reply is not warranted.

 

[Krate M]

Most of the time, submarines are submerged at deeper depths and use their sonar systems to obtain fire control solutions on enemy targets.

How deep? It is lesser than 750 metre. Operating depths are around 750 feet/ 250 meters for nuclear submarine. Probably less for conventional submarine. At those depths temperature does matter. Also read about sonic depth here. Run Silent, Run Deep - Navy Ships
If you feel that Indian sonar systems are not good, please let this discussion end on that note. You are entitled to your beliefs.

What R&D..
Sonar is up and running in all the submarines in the world.

And yet R&D on sonar is ongoing and not just in India.

 

[narcon]

How deep? It is lesser than 750 metre. Operating depths are around 750 feet/ 250 meters for nuclear submarine. Probably less for conventional submarine. At those depths temperature does matter. Also read about sonic depth here. Run Silent, Run Deep - Navy Ships
If you feel that Indian sonar systems are not good, please let this discussion end on that note. You are entitled to your beliefs.

Sonar is subdued by 3 crucial factors collectively for sound propagation: 1) Quality of water = Salinity in ppm 2) Specific gravity of the water 3) Temperature of water.

Temperature matters from surface to 1500 Meters of depth wherein the fluctuation is high. Below 1500 it hardly matters because the temperature remains almost the same give or take 5% average. And no sub goes that deep.

So you see, its not only 'those depths'..There is more.

How you compensate against varying water temperature and varying specific gravity is what I asked, and you said R&D...as if the sonars of the world are yet to take off.

Coming to your judgement that I feel that Indian sonars are inferior is wrong. What made you say this?

You started with the following post viz;

Russian sonar technology is optimized for the colder and deeper waters of the Pacific ocean Baltic Sea etc. While Indian technology is optimized for the warmer shallow waters of the Indian ocean, Indochina sea etc.

And my question was against the compensation of Sonar system against its impeding hostile forces which drop its strength down by some decibels.

What do you find wrong here?

 

[axisofevil]

.... you have just admitted to Indian product being superior to Russian product AFTER asking for proof, and you call me an idiot. LOL.

LOL at you T-90 comment. It so absurd that even a reply is not warranted.

I stated that based on this statement from the article :

Observing that it was superior to Russian equivalents and comparable to the best in the world, he said that sonars on all Russian-class submarines being operated by the Indian Navy would be replaced with USHUS.


I stated more advanced than Russia, not necesarily this equivalent but with all Russian sonars!



As for the T 90 comment, that's right keep your mouth shut, when you have no clue what I am referring to idiot.

 

[Bong]

Navies of friendly countries keen on Indian sonars - The Hindu
Talks for export of hull-mounted devices at an advanced stage
India is looking to export indigenously developed hull-mounted sonars and negotiations are at an advanced stage with the navies of three to four friendly nations.

SONAR (an acronym for Sound Navigation and Ranging) is used to detect underwater targets. Like radar, used to detect long-range aerial and other targets, sonars have applications in underwater surveillance, communication and marine navigation.

Three units of these sonars have been exported to Myanmar. Officials from Bharat Electronics Limited and the Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory visited the neighbouring country and installed them a fortnight ago. BEL produced the sonars while the Kochi-based NPOL, a naval lab of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), designed and developed them. BEL had signed the Rs.150-crore contract for the three sonars with Myanmar in January 2013. Director-General of DRDO (Naval Systems and Materials) Bhujanga Rao told The Hindu that there was a demand from other nations too. Naval officials from three to four countries came to India and held discussions. Mentioning different sonars developed for the Navy, he said that a versatile, new-generation system USHUS has been installed on India’s first indigenous nuclear-powered submarine, Arihant. It has a higher range and can withstand high static pressure of water. Observing that it was superior to Russian equivalents and comparable to the best in the world, he said that sonars on all Russian-class submarines being operated by the Indian Navy would be replaced with USHUS.

Another advanced hull-mounted sonar HUMSA-NG (new generation) was also developed and the Navy had placed orders for its installation on different platforms such as destroyers, frigates and corvettes, Dr. Rao said.

A sonar for detecting intruders like divers had been developed for installation at harbour entry points and to protect offshore installations. It will be ready for deployment in a year. Similarly, ship-towed array sonar technology that could detect targets up to 100 km was ready for user-evaluation trials. ABHAY, a compact sonar for fitting on warships of smaller size or shallow watercraft, was currently undergoing technical trials on board INS Ajay, Dr. Rao said.


Three units have been exported and installed in Myanmar

Why you guys are exporting these to Myanmar. Brahmos, Sonar. Are you guys sure, Myanmar is buying them or China is behind it to check these items.

might be to Myanmar, not BD

Yes BD is a friendly country of India. But they are sending all to our enemy. What kinds of friend they are?

 

[Sahasranama]

Why you guys are exporting these to Myanmar. Brahmos, Sonar. Are you guys sure, Myanmar is buying them or China is behind it to check these items.
Yes BD is a friendly country of India. But they are sending all to our enemy. What kinds of friend they are?

BD is an enviable position of having no enemies. You do not know how lucky you are. SL is lucky too, but is keen on making enemies where non exist.

 

[Krate M]

How you compensate against varying water temperature and varying specific gravity?

And my question was against the compensation of Sonar system against its impeding hostile forces which drop its strength down by some decibels.

What do you find wrong here?

About my misconception of your intent, my apologies. The general course of discussion here, leads one to be a cynic.
About how the optimization of sonar was done by Indian Navy. I have to say I am unaware of the technical details. The part I was talking about was mentioned in a book on the Navy, which is the official history of Indian Navy, called from transitions to triumph.
One of the biggest lesson IN learned in 1971 was the ineffectiveness of the ship based sonar in detection of submarine especially due to the tropical conditions around India. Even the Russian supplied ships were unable to detect them. This forced them to work on development of indigenous sonar optimized for the conditions. I know this may not satisfy your curiosity. But the fact that we are replacing the sonar in kilo submarine with indigenous, shows that the Navy has a lot of faith in it.
The rivers from the Himalayas are high silt, also causing higher salinity, multiple factors along with the ones you have mentioned cause the difficulty in detection