Mystery of Russian & Soviet intelligence agencies!

[Azadkashmir]

https://www.youtube.com/user/maximmanakov

@vostok


I never said they are here to free us. I said, if they are indeed here, they must be here to serve their own interests.

ahem bro thats what it about. haglien dialectics.

you think under soviet they did karl max theory lolz they have same central bank as united states and london.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

STUMBLED UPON THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION ON ARMS RACE: IT IS ABOUT SOVIET UNION YET IT IS SO REMINISCENT OF RAW'S ACTIVITIES, INDIA'S OPEN OVERGROUND FOREIGN POLICIES AND USA'S REFUSAL TO SHARE KNOWLEDGE WITH INDIA.

The first nuclear weapon was created by the U.S. during the Second World War and was developed to be used against the Axis powers.[1] Scientists of the Soviet Union were aware of the potential of nuclear weapons and had also been conducting research on the field.[2]

The Soviet Union was not informed officially of the Manhattan Project until Stalin was briefed at the Potsdam Conference on July 24, 1945, by U.S. President Harry S. Truman,[3][4] eight days after the first successful test of a nuclear weapon. Despite their wartime military alliance, the United States and Britain had not trusted the Soviets enough to keep knowledge of the Manhattan Project safe from German spies: there were also concerns that, as an ally, the Soviet Union would request and expect to receive technical details of the new weapon.

This is akin to USA refusing to share knowledge and technology with Indians.

When President Truman informed Stalin of the weapons, he was surprised at how calmly Stalin reacted to the news and thought that Stalin had not understood what he had been told. Other members of the United States and British delegations who closely observed the exchange formed the same conclusion.[5]

In fact Stalin had long been aware of the program,[6] despite the Manhattan Project having a secret classification so high that, even as Vice President, Truman did not know about it or the development of the weapons (Truman was not informed until shortly after he became president).[6] A ring of spiesoperating within the Manhattan Project, (including Klaus Fuchs[7] and Theodore Hall) had kept Stalin well informed of American progress.[8] They provided the Soviets with detailed designs of the implosion bomb and the hydrogen bomb.[citation needed] Fuchs' arrest in 1950 led to the arrests of many other Russian spies, including Harry Gold, David Greenglass, and Ethel and Julius Rosenberg.

This is akin to RAW's Kahuta operation to find out about Pakistan's nuclear programme.

Shortly after the end of the Second World War in 1945, the United Nations was founded. During the United Nation's first General Assembly in London in January 1946, they discussed the future of Nuclear Weapons and created the United Nations Atomic Energy Commission. The goal of this assembly was to eliminate the use of all Nuclear weapons. The United States presented their solution, which was called the Baruch Plan.[10] This plan proposed that there should be an international authority that controls all dangerous atomic activities. The Soviet Union disagreed with this proposal and rejected it. The Soviets' proposal involved universal nuclear disarmament. Both the American and Soviet proposals were refused by the UN.

This is akin to India's refusal to sign NPT.

 

[Bharat Muslim]

Mystery of Russian & Soviet intelligence agencies!

It is theorized that the real power that drives RAW is actually Russian intelligence. Could it be true? Did Russians ghost-direct all of RAW's activities ever since it's inception in 1968? In other words, could it be true that for decades, Russians worked tirelessly behind the scene and are still working to run our own desi spy organization, RAW? It is theorized that just as Westerner's founded and established ISI, Pakistan's intelligence agency, Russians set up RAW and the difference was that Russians did it so anonymously that others don't know about this. Could it be true that the dictum of letting colleagues and subordinates take credit for successes actually applied to Russian officers and not to Kao? Could it be true that the trait of being in the midst of all Indian affairs - active but unseen - is actually of Russian officers and not of Kao? Should the Mujib-ur-Rehman's compliment of RAW knowing more about Bangladesh than Bangladesh's president himself should actually be reserved for Russian officers? Over the decades, have the Russian and Soviet intelligence agencies like KGB and it's later Russian versions been using RAW, India's external intelligence agency as an 'alias'? Is it true that Russia helped set up ISRO as an answer to USA helping SUPARCO, Pakistan's space agency?

Whatever be the truth, there are solid reasons for Russians to do all this:

1. Russia is scarce in funds and material resources. It needs all this to run high-end projects like space exploration, supercomputers, missile technology, and military R&D stuff etcetera. And they can share the costs for all this if they form alliance with India.

2. Russia's spy agency may have acute need of anonymity. Because CIA would try to sabotage Russia's civilian economy, administrative system, R&D projects, diplomatic efforts etcetera. So the way around this is to deflect CIA's ire by pretending that RAW is doing certain things and Russia is an uninterested and unrelated entity. For example a perception is that Indians are building Afghanistan to make it stable. But this caters to Russian interests. So could it be that Russians are the real builders and Indians are merely smokescreen? And at the same time Russians cannot be open about their influence lest they draw CIA's attention.

If Russia is indeed the ghost-writer of RAW's script, they have done a great job. In order to do this, they were thorough in their preparation. They learnt local languages ranging from Hindi to Tamil, Punjabi to Assamese, studied and understood the region's culture, economy and current issues, blended with the local population, worked out solution to local problems such as effecting turnaround in railway, influenced foreign policy decisions such as whether or not to send Indian troops to Iraq war when George Bush requested in 2003.

@AnnoyingOrange

@unbiasedopinion

@randomradio

@dev_moh

@Ajaxpaul @Robinhood Pandey @Nilgiri @Water Car Engineer @Roybot @Ashesh @kmc_chacko @Sloth 22

@punit @Tangent123 @#hydra# @X_Killer @ranadd

@Super Commando Dhruva @Czar786 @Avon @hellfire @amardeep mishra

@Indian wonk @Jugger @sathya

@ashok321 @cerberus

@Tamilnadu @Srinivas @Soumitra

@salarsikander

@Hindustani78

@haviZsultan

@Josef K

@Levina

@OrionHunter

@Paragkhadse259 @Nilgiri @my2cents

@Mr.Nair
@Kao Boy @Mr.Nair @my2cents @kris @Tamil_Manithan @liall @Blue Marlin @aryadravida_exmuslim

@John Reese

@utraash @Vishvamitra @padamchen @INDIAISM @Jacob Martin

@goetterdaemmerung

@Razia Sultana

@Laozi

@Rajaraja Chola

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

@AnnoyingOrange

@unbiasedopinion

@randomradio

@dev_moh

@Ajaxpaul @Robinhood Pandey @Nilgiri @Water Car Engineer @Roybot @Ashesh @kmc_chacko @Sloth 22

@punit @Tangent123 @#hydra# @X_Killer @ranadd

@Super Commando Dhruva @Czar786 @Avon @hellfire @amardeep mishra

@Indian wonk @Jugger @sathya

@ashok321 @cerberus

@Tamilnadu @Srinivas @Soumitra

@salarsikander

@Hindustani78

@haviZsultan

@Josef K

@Levina

@OrionHunter

@Paragkhadse259 @Nilgiri @my2cents

@Mr.Nair
@Kao Boy @Mr.Nair @my2cents @kris @Tamil_Manithan @liall @Blue Marlin @aryadravida_exmuslim

@John Reese

@utraash @Vishvamitra @padamchen @INDIAISM @Jacob Martin

@goetterdaemmerung

@Razia Sultana

@Laozi

@Rajaraja Chola

I have read this thread before and decided that this fantasy thread doesnt warrant my reply. It needs some better minds to decipher and re-discuss the fiction.

 

[Bharat Muslim]

Russian nuclear reactors failed in Soviet Union as exemplified by Chernobyl nuclear disaster. But the same Russian nuclear reactors work fabulously in India. How do you explain?

@vostok @BRICSFTW @victor07 @senheiser @proka89 @Chinese-Dragon @DejanSRB

 

[Bharat Muslim]

Mystery of Russian & Soviet intelligence agencies!

It is theorized that the real power that drives RAW is actually Russian intelligence. Could it be true? Did Russians ghost-direct all of RAW's activities ever since it's inception in 1968? In other words, could it be true that for decades, Russians worked tirelessly behind the scene and are still working to run our own desi spy organization, RAW? It is theorized that just as Westerner's founded and established ISI, Pakistan's intelligence agency, Russians set up RAW and the difference was that Russians did it so anonymously that others don't know about this. Could it be true that the dictum of letting colleagues and subordinates take credit for successes actually applied to Russian officers and not to Kao? Could it be true that the trait of being in the midst of all Indian affairs - active but unseen - is actually of Russian officers and not of Kao? Should the Mujib-ur-Rehman's compliment of RAW knowing more about Bangladesh than Bangladesh's president himself should actually be reserved for Russian officers? Over the decades, have the Russian and Soviet intelligence agencies like KGB and it's later Russian versions been using RAW, India's external intelligence agency as an 'alias'? Is it true that Russia helped set up ISRO as an answer to USA helping SUPARCO, Pakistan's space agency?

Whatever be the truth, there are solid reasons for Russians to do all this:

1. Russia is scarce in funds and material resources. It needs all this to run high-end projects like space exploration, supercomputers, missile technology, and military R&D stuff etcetera. And they can share the costs for all this if they form alliance with India.

2. Russia's spy agency may have acute need of anonymity. Because CIA would try to sabotage Russia's civilian economy, administrative system, R&D projects, diplomatic efforts etcetera. So the way around this is to deflect CIA's ire by pretending that RAW is doing certain things and Russia is an uninterested and unrelated entity. For example a perception is that Indians are building Afghanistan to make it stable. But this caters to Russian interests. So could it be that Russians are the real builders and Indians are merely smokescreen? And at the same time Russians cannot be open about their influence lest they draw CIA's attention.

If Russia is indeed the ghost-writer of RAW's script, they have done a great job. In order to do this, they were thorough in their preparation. They learnt local languages ranging from Hindi to Tamil, Punjabi to Assamese, studied and understood the region's culture, economy and current issues, blended with the local population, worked out solution to local problems such as effecting turnaround in railway, influenced foreign policy decisions such as whether or not to send Indian troops to Iraq war when George Bush requested in 2003.

Could this be the reason why Pakistan has been unable to wrest Kashmir from India even after 70 years?

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Is America Facing Another Sputnik Moment?

By Manu Saadia
October 4, 2017

Humanity’s first satellite, launched sixty years ago, forever changed the shape of science and education in the United States.Photograph by Sovfoto / UIG via Getty

Sixty years ago today, on a drab steppe in southern Kazakhstan, the Soviet Union launched humanity’s first artificial satellite into Earth’s orbit. It was a shiny sphere of aluminum, magnesium, and titanium, twenty-three inches in diameter and weighing about as much as an adult man, and it was equipped with the barest essentials of spaceflight: a radio transmitter, a battery, and a fan to keep it cool. With its four elongated antennae, the satellite resembled a B-movie insectoid, an impression strengthened by the high-frequency screeches it emitted every three-tenths of a second. (Perhaps the sound reminded amateur radio operators on the ground of the piercing calls of the irradiated monster ants from the sci-fi film “Them!,” which had done well at the box office three years earlier.) Like the rocket it rode to space—a modified intercontinental ballistic missile known simply as Semyorka (“Seventh”)—the craft was given a utilitarian name: Sputnik, or “Satellite.” (The word can also be translated as “travelling companion,” in case there was any doubt that Sputnik was a Communist.)

The event provoked a panic in America. Not only had the Russians beaten the United States to the punch but they had done so with a spacecraft that dwarfed the three-and-a-half-pound squeaker the U.S. Navy was developing. The crisis prompted G. Mennen Williams, the governor of Michigan, to write a poetic upbraiding of President Dwight D. Eisenhower. The first stanza goes:

Oh little Sputnik, flying high
With made-in-Moscow beep,
You tell the world it’s a Commie sky
and Uncle Sam’s asleep.

Probably the only people not shocked by Sputnik 1’s successful launch were scientists. Both the U.S.S.R. and the United States had previously announced that they would put satellites into orbit as part of an eighteen-month campaign called the International Geophysical Year. The I.G.Y.—immortalized by Steely Dan’s Donald Fagen in a bittersweet song from 1982—was an attempt at diplomacy and international coöperation. Sixty-seven nations and four thousand research institutions took part, funding and participating in expeditions to all parts of the globe and sharing their data freely. (China was the only country to withdraw, in protest of the inclusion of Taiwan.) Until October 4th, the public had paid scant attention to the I.G.Y. But Sputnik was the beep heard around the world—a daring technical achievement coupled with a propaganda masterstroke for space Communism.

“The launch of Sputnik 1 had a ‘Pearl Harbor’ effect on American public opinion,” the nasa historian Roger Launius has written. “It was a shock, introducing the average citizen to the space age in a crisis setting.” The event seemed to demonstrate to the world that Russia and, by extension, the Communist bloc, were far ahead of America, and that there was a new arena in the battle for supremacy between the two powers. Although Eisenhower was pilloried for his initially flat-footed response, it is likely that he and his Administration knew a good deal more than they let on, thanks in large part to U-2 spy planes, which had entered service that same year. Indeed, recently opened archives suggest that Eisenhower preferred to let the Soviets reach space first, so as to establish a precedent. The United States would then be free to launch reconnaissance satellites without incurring the wrath of its Cold War nemesis.

Sputnik proved a godsend to scientific education and research in this country. Less than a year after the satellite went up, Congress passed the National Defense and Education Act, which greatly expanded funding for the stem disciplines in schools and established the first federal student-loan program. But Sputnik’s legacy didn’t stop there. Two months before Congress overhauled the education system, it passed the National Aeronautics and Space Act, which created nasa and put America’s space program under a civilian umbrella. (The new agency became active almost a year to the day after Sputnik’s launch.) Space exploration and space technology would no longer be subordinated to military objectives; they would contribute to the public endeavor for scientific knowledge and engineering prowess.

Today’s anniversary comes at a fraught time for American spaceflight. nasa is at a crossroads. Its original declaration of purpose, from 1958, balanced the purely scientific with the practical, devoting the agency to both “the expansion of human knowledge of phenomena in the atmosphere and space” and “the improvement of the usefulness, performance, speed, safety, and efficiency of aeronautical and space vehicles.” That dual commitment gave America some of its most astonishing scientific and human triumphs—the Apollo moon landings, the Voyager and Cassini probes, the Mars Curiosity rover, the Hubble Space Telescope. Each has yielded fundamental insights into our place in the solar system and the wider universe. But nasa’s original mission is being reassessed. The spirit of the I.G.Y., a collectivist pursuit of knowledge for knowledge’s sake, has over the decades given way to a more capitalistic impulse. Space exploration must pay dividends, and pay them quickly.

The direction of the American space program could well be decided by Donald Trump’s nominee to lead nasa, Jim Bridenstine. A former Navy pilot and current congressman from Oklahoma, Bridenstine has been a vocal supporter of human spaceflight over basic research—more landings on Mars, fewer probes to Pluto. In his proposed American Space Renaissance Act, he calls for nasa to retrench from its scientific mission and devote its resources to building the infrastructure for a future (and still largely speculative) space economy. But Bridenstine’s plan seems to ignore the existing space economy, with its launch systems and communications satellites around the planet, a more than three-hundred-billion-dollar industry. It also elides the fact that, at a time of increasing automation here on Earth, the rush to send human colonists to space seems quaint, if not misguided.

This was, and remains, the main drawback of America’s historical Sputnik moment. In the depths of the Cold War, it framed space exploration as a race for national grandeur and technological domination, another frontier to be conquered. For some, neither the moment nor the war ever really ended. It is as if, sixty years after the Soviets first put a satellite into orbit, the Americans still haven’t gotten there.

Manu Saadia is the author of “Trekonomics.”

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/is-america-facing-another-sputnik-moment

 

[Bharat Muslim]

Mystery of Russian & Soviet intelligence agencies!

It is theorized that the real power that drives RAW is actually Russian intelligence. Could it be true? Did Russians ghost-direct all of RAW's activities ever since it's inception in 1968? In other words, could it be true that for decades, Russians worked tirelessly behind the scene and are still working to run our own desi spy organization, RAW? It is theorized that just as Westerner's founded and established ISI, Pakistan's intelligence agency, Russians set up RAW and the difference was that Russians did it so anonymously that others don't know about this. Could it be true that the dictum of letting colleagues and subordinates take credit for successes actually applied to Russian officers and not to Kao? Could it be true that the trait of being in the midst of all Indian affairs - active but unseen - is actually of Russian officers and not of Kao? Should the Mujib-ur-Rehman's compliment of RAW knowing more about Bangladesh than Bangladesh's president himself should actually be reserved for Russian officers? Over the decades, have the Russian and Soviet intelligence agencies like KGB and it's later Russian versions been using RAW, India's external intelligence agency as an 'alias'? Is it true that Russia helped set up ISRO as an answer to USA helping SUPARCO, Pakistan's space agency?

Whatever be the truth, there are solid reasons for Russians to do all this:

1. Russia is scarce in funds and material resources. It needs all this to run high-end projects like space exploration, supercomputers, missile technology, and military R&D stuff etcetera. And they can share the costs for all this if they form alliance with India.

2. Russia's spy agency may have acute need of anonymity. Because CIA would try to sabotage Russia's civilian economy, administrative system, R&D projects, diplomatic efforts etcetera. So the way around this is to deflect CIA's ire by pretending that RAW is doing certain things and Russia is an uninterested and unrelated entity. For example a perception is that Indians are building Afghanistan to make it stable. But this caters to Russian interests. So could it be that Russians are the real builders and Indians are merely smokescreen? And at the same time Russians cannot be open about their influence lest they draw CIA's attention.

If Russia is indeed the ghost-writer of RAW's script, they have done a great job. In order to do this, they were thorough in their preparation. They learnt local languages ranging from Hindi to Tamil, Punjabi to Assamese, studied and understood the region's culture, economy and current issues, blended with the local population, worked out solution to local problems such as effecting turnaround in railway, influenced foreign policy decisions such as whether or not to send Indian troops to Iraq war when George Bush requested in 2003.

@Śakra

@Joe Shearer @SOUTHie

 

[Joe Shearer]

Mystery of Russian & Soviet intelligence agencies!

It is theorized that the real power that drives RAW is actually Russian intelligence. Could it be true? Did Russians ghost-direct all of RAW's activities ever since it's inception in 1968? In other words, could it be true that for decades, Russians worked tirelessly behind the scene and are still working to run our own desi spy organization, RAW? It is theorized that just as Westerner's founded and established ISI, Pakistan's intelligence agency, Russians set up RAW and the difference was that Russians did it so anonymously that others don't know about this. Could it be true that the dictum of letting colleagues and subordinates take credit for successes actually applied to Russian officers and not to Kao? Could it be true that the trait of being in the midst of all Indian affairs - active but unseen - is actually of Russian officers and not of Kao? Should the Mujib-ur-Rehman's compliment of RAW knowing more about Bangladesh than Bangladesh's president himself should actually be reserved for Russian officers? Over the decades, have the Russian and Soviet intelligence agencies like KGB and it's later Russian versions been using RAW, India's external intelligence agency as an 'alias'? Is it true that Russia helped set up ISRO as an answer to USA helping SUPARCO, Pakistan's space agency?

Whatever be the truth, there are solid reasons for Russians to do all this:

1. Russia is scarce in funds and material resources. It needs all this to run high-end projects like space exploration, supercomputers, missile technology, and military R&D stuff etcetera. And they can share the costs for all this if they form alliance with India.

2. Russia's spy agency may have acute need of anonymity. Because CIA would try to sabotage Russia's civilian economy, administrative system, R&D projects, diplomatic efforts etcetera. So the way around this is to deflect CIA's ire by pretending that RAW is doing certain things and Russia is an uninterested and unrelated entity. For example a perception is that Indians are building Afghanistan to make it stable. But this caters to Russian interests. So could it be that Russians are the real builders and Indians are merely smokescreen? And at the same time Russians cannot be open about their influence lest they draw CIA's attention.

If Russia is indeed the ghost-writer of RAW's script, they have done a great job. In order to do this, they were thorough in their preparation. They learnt local languages ranging from Hindi to Tamil, Punjabi to Assamese, studied and understood the region's culture, economy and current issues, blended with the local population, worked out solution to local problems such as effecting turnaround in railway, influenced foreign policy decisions such as whether or not to send Indian troops to Iraq war when George Bush requested in 2003.

Absolute and undiluted crap. Anyone who has even a nodding acquaintance with R&W 'officials' and their organisation and actions will recognise that this is from the all-too-common conspiracy syndrome, which sees dark and mysterious occurrences everywhere and decides that these are all governed by a mysterious, omnipotent secret force.

Much of the vicious allegations levelled against R&W and against India in general stems from several factors:

1. "If we are doing it, they must be doing it too." Pakistan has had a long history of using external agents to achieve objectives of state, and its intelligence agencies, pre-eminently one intelligence agency, has had the task of achieving these objectives, using people out of uniform to perform the most horrific crimes with one sole intention: achievement of these state objectives.
2. "They must be spending as much as we do, and their operatives and administrators must be the dedicated elite that we use to man our agencies." One unattributed newspaper source (not Indian) suggested that Rs. 100 crores is spent every year on keeping alive the agitation in Jammu and Kashmir. Those of us who are close to Jammu and Kashmir, spend time there and have friends on both sides (actually on all four sides, counting pro-India, pro-Pakistan, pro-none of these but purely Kashmiri instead and pro-none of these and wishing desperately that the whole quarreling pack would jump into the Indus and float away, as one side each), know through bitter observation what a huge role subventions play in J&K politics. This is not by the Pakistani agencies alone, but the Indian amounts are hugely overshadowed by its counterparts. The amount spent by R&W may be between Rs. 650 crores and 2925 crores, according to an online source, with no clue as to its authenticity.
   We do know about the personnel, though. Although on the Pakistani side, the generals and their military officers who have given distinguished service to the country are regularly made known through the media and through the wide-open military and ex-military grape-vine, and although due to its extraordinarily active and engaged role in various covert operations on a theatre scale, on the Indian side, there is nothing equivalent. There will be nothing available equivalent in future either, if we are to go by the type of officers and operators that they engage. Putting it in brutally simple terms, R&W simply doesn't have the band-width to fight rival intelligence agencies.
3. "They must be at their task of destroying their enemy morning, noon and night." I have tried explaining to others before, have failed abysmally and therefore do not wish to get engaged in a truly fruitless exercise all over again. However, there were two large and very public gaps in R&W operations, when it was specifically forbidden to conduct intelligence activities in the neighbouring country. It is not appropriate to comment more specifically than that.
   Only one point that emerges from this is the fact that the restoration of their mandate to conduct covert operations, an exciting paraphrase for engaging those who will report activities in a clandestine manner: appointing specific agents gathering data, for teams to then spend enormous time and effort to build accurate pictures of daily life in that country from the sea coast to the Pamir Emirates, for experts then to propose to the Cabinet Committee on Security what steps might be taken to engage with the trouble-makers, was too recent either to have formed militant groups in Afghanistan, pitched armed squads against Pakistan and its schools, colleges and Universities, against places of worship, and against public places.

There is very little data that can be shared with this forum. But the claim in the OP is horribly wrong.

Once I heard that in the world only 4 countries have global, independent intelligence services - Russia, the United States, Britain, Israel.

It has a fifth - R&W - and how knowledgeable Indians wish it wasn't an independent intelligence service (it certainly isn't global).

@BRICSFTW @vostok

Posting more cues:

The first Indian to fly into space, Rakesh Sharma was born on January 13, 1949 in Patiala, Punjab. He was a squadron leader with the Indian Air Force, when he flew into space in 1984 as part of a joint programme between the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) and the Soviet Intercosmos space program. He spent eight days in space on board the Salyut 7 space station. He joined two other Soviet cosmonauts aboard the Soyuz T-11 spacecraft which blasted off on April 2, 1984.

He was awarded the Hero of Soviet Union award on his return from space. The Government of India honoured him with the Ashok Chakra. He retired with the rank of Wing Commander. He joined the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in 1987 and served as Chief Test Pilot in the HAL Nashik Division until 1992, before moving on to Bangalore to work as the Chief Test Pilot of HAL. He retired from test flying in 2001.

This is excruciating. I don't know who started this speculation, but having known both Rakesh Sharma, and the stand-by, Ravish Malhotra, who now makes drones for the Air Force for an Indian private sector organisation that is not very highly publicised, I have to hold my head in pain at these totally daft speculations. Sharma had his weaknesses and faults, but being engaged in espionage was none of his profile. He was crazy about golf, he had a reputation for being a connoisseur of coffee and far more knowledgeable about overseas variations than other Indians (having witnessed him pick out different origins in a 'blind testing' at a mutual acquaintance's home, I can confirm that he knew his brew), as manager of the private HAL airport, he had a peaceful administrative role to play, but one where he took very, very unwise and technically ridiculous decisions, merely in order to pander to his 'group' in the Air Force.

He was no spy.

All bullshit no proofs..lame dreaming
Once it was russio india now it is

Pak russia china... Take a deep breath and start fart..

And this is the kind of intellect-challenged response that it provokes. We have to suffer horrible, sub-standard, abusive posts such as this.

what thread pussy???????????????????????????feed your naked soldiers first..........then came along with arguments.

And this. What a terrible idea to open this inane thread in the generally public area.

CIA, ISI encouraged Sikh terrorism: Ex-R&AW official

July 26, 2007 13:26 IST

The Richard Nixon administration in the US had initiated a "covert action plan" in collusion with General Yahya Khan's government in Pakistan in 1971 to encourage a separatist movement in Punjab, a former top officer of the Research and Analysis Wing has said.

"This plan envisaged the encouragement of a separatist movement among the Sikhs for an independent state to be called Khalistan. In 1971, one saw the beginning of a joint covert operation by the US intelligence community and Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence to create difficulties for India in Punjab," B Raman, who retired as additional secretary in the Cabinet Secretariat, says in his forthcoming book.

In the book The Kaoboys of R&AW -- Down the Memory Lane that is yet to be published, he said the US interest in Punjab militancy "continued for a little more than a decade and tapered off after the assassination of Indira Gandhi" by two Sikh security guards on October 31, 1984.

Elaborating, Raman said Jagjit Singh Chauhan, a Sikh leader from Punjab, went to the UK and took over the leadership of the defunct Sikh Home Rule movement and renamed it after Khalistan.

The then Pakistani military ruler Yahya Khan invited Chauhan to Pakistan, "lionised" him as a leader of Sikhs and handed over some Sikh holy relics kept in Pakistan, which Chauhan took to the UK to win a following in the Sikh diaspora.

Chauhan also went to New York, met officials of the United Nations and some American journalists and alleged human rights violations of Sikhs in India.

"These meetings were discreetly organised by officials of the US National Security Council Secretariat then headed by (Henry) Kissinger," the former R&AW officer says.

"With American and Pakistani encouragement, the activities of Chauhan continued till 1977. After the defeat of Indira Gandhi in the elections in 1977 and the coming to power of a government headed by Morarji Desai, Chauhan abruptly called off his so-called Khalistan movement and returned to India," writes Raman.

Observing that foreign intelligence agencies were not helpful in providing information on Sikh extremist activities in their respective countries, he says the political leadership of western countries like the UK, the US and Canada, which has sizeable Sikh population, did not want to antagonise them by cooperating with the Indian government against the Khalistanis.

Giving an example of "non-cooperation", he refers to the authorities in the then West Germany.

He says Talwinder Singh Parmar of Babbar Khalsa, a sacked sawmill worker in Vancouver in Canada who was wanted in several cases in India like the Nirankari massacre and had been making "threatening" statements against Indira Gandhi, was arrested while travelling from Zurich to West Germany following an INTERPOL alert.

The German authorities not only did not hand him over to a CBI team, which had rushed to Bonn to take him into custody, but sent him back to Vancouver.

Two years later, Parmar played an active role in the conspiracy, which led to the blowing up of the Air India plane 'Kanishka' killing over 300 passengers, the retired R&AW official says adding, "the West German authorities cannot escape a major share of responsibility for this colossal tragedy."

On the storming of the Golden Temple in June 3-6, 1984, Raman writes that as Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and his followers started gathering arms inside the complex and a spurt in terrorist incidents was witnessed across the country, there was "panic" in the government when trans-border sources of IB and R&AW reported that ISI was infiltrating Pakistani ex-servicemen and some serving Pakistani armymen into Punjab.

However, these IB and R&AW reports were later proved wrong, he says.

But the "alarm" led Indira Gandhi to frantically find a political solution and to use Akali Dal leaders to pursuade Bhindranwale to vacate the temple.

"Rajiv Gandhi and two of his associates held a number of secret meetings with Akali leaders in a New Delhi guest house of the R&AW. I was given the task of making arrangements for these meetings, recording the discussions, transcribing them and putting up the transcripts to (Rameshwar Nath) Kao for briefing Indira Gandhi," Raman said.

Kao was then the senior advisor to the prime minister.

Maintaining that the talks failed to persuade Akali leaders to see reason and cooperate with the government, he said, "The transcripts, which were kept in the top secret archives of the R&AW, were very valuable records of historic value.

"They showed how earnestly Indira Gandhi tried to avoid having to send the Army into the Golden Temple," he said.

Raman also elaborated on the pros and cons of the army raid, called Operation Blue Star, its impact on the sentiments of the armymen as well as the Sikhs.

The "lingering hurt" aggravated the Khalistani trouble and finally led to the killings of Indira Gandhi and then army chief Gen A S Vaidya.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/jul/26raw.htm

@StraightShooter

I have a deep distrust of Raman and his columns, particularly the ones where he pontificates on foreign policy, but this disconnected account rings true.

I think @Bharat Muslim ought to be shot.

 

[Bharat Muslim]

but having known both Rakesh Sharma, and the stand-by, Ravish Malhotra, who now makes drones for the Air Force for an Indian private sector organisation that is not very highly publicised

What do you mean? Have you met Rakesh Sharma and company? And do you know them?

That's sad, if true, because even people like you who have access to such high profile personalities are so predictable.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What do you mean? Have you met Rakesh Sharma and company? And do you know them?

That's sad, if true, because even people like you who have access to such high profile personalities are so predictable.

Please tell me how to be less predictable. I always thought I was displaying integrity; what I say is what I mean, kind of thing. What connection does access to high profile personalities have to predictability?

And yes, I have met both Rakesh Sharma, frequently, and Ravish Malhotra, on a couple of occasions. They were nothing in front of towering personalities like Wollen, an ex-Chairman of HAL, or Group Captain K. S. Suresh, a real hero, one of the Hunter pilots at Longewala; I mention them because both have passed away, but there were some huge figures among the others, who are blessedly still alive.

I still don't get your 'predictability' argument.

 

[Bharat Muslim]

Mystery of Russian & Soviet intelligence agencies!

It is theorized that the real power that drives RAW is actually Russian intelligence. Could it be true? Did Russians ghost-direct all of RAW's activities ever since it's inception in 1968? In other words, could it be true that for decades, Russians worked tirelessly behind the scene and are still working to run our own desi spy organization, RAW? It is theorized that just as Westerner's founded and established ISI, Pakistan's intelligence agency, Russians set up RAW and the difference was that Russians did it so anonymously that others don't know about this. Could it be true that the dictum of letting colleagues and subordinates take credit for successes actually applied to Russian officers and not to Kao? Could it be true that the trait of being in the midst of all Indian affairs - active but unseen - is actually of Russian officers and not of Kao? Should the Mujib-ur-Rehman's compliment of RAW knowing more about Bangladesh than Bangladesh's president himself should actually be reserved for Russian officers? Over the decades, have the Russian and Soviet intelligence agencies like KGB and it's later Russian versions been using RAW, India's external intelligence agency as an 'alias'? Is it true that Russia helped set up ISRO as an answer to USA helping SUPARCO, Pakistan's space agency?

Whatever be the truth, there are solid reasons for Russians to do all this:

1. Russia is scarce in funds and material resources. It needs all this to run high-end projects like space exploration, supercomputers, missile technology, and military R&D stuff etcetera. And they can share the costs for all this if they form alliance with India.

2. Russia's spy agency may have acute need of anonymity. Because CIA would try to sabotage Russia's civilian economy, administrative system, R&D projects, diplomatic efforts etcetera. So the way around this is to deflect CIA's ire by pretending that RAW is doing certain things and Russia is an uninterested and unrelated entity. For example a perception is that Indians are building Afghanistan to make it stable. But this caters to Russian interests. So could it be that Russians are the real builders and Indians are merely smokescreen? And at the same time Russians cannot be open about their influence lest they draw CIA's attention.

If Russia is indeed the ghost-writer of RAW's script, they have done a great job. In order to do this, they were thorough in their preparation. They learnt local languages ranging from Hindi to Tamil, Punjabi to Assamese, studied and understood the region's culture, economy and current issues, blended with the local population, worked out solution to local problems such as effecting turnaround in railway, influenced foreign policy decisions such as whether or not to send Indian troops to Iraq war when George Bush requested in 2003.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Mystery of Russian & Soviet intelligence agencies!

It is theorized that the real power that drives RAW is actually Russian intelligence. Could it be true? Did Russians ghost-direct all of RAW's activities ever since it's inception in 1968? In other words, could it be true that for decades, Russians worked tirelessly behind the scene and are still working to run our own desi spy organization, RAW? It is theorized that just as Westerner's founded and established ISI, Pakistan's intelligence agency, Russians set up RAW and the difference was that Russians did it so anonymously that others don't know about this. Could it be true that the dictum of letting colleagues and subordinates take credit for successes actually applied to Russian officers and not to Kao? Could it be true that the trait of being in the midst of all Indian affairs - active but unseen - is actually of Russian officers and not of Kao? Should the Mujib-ur-Rehman's compliment of RAW knowing more about Bangladesh than Bangladesh's president himself should actually be reserved for Russian officers? Over the decades, have the Russian and Soviet intelligence agencies like KGB and it's later Russian versions been using RAW, India's external intelligence agency as an 'alias'? Is it true that Russia helped set up ISRO as an answer to USA helping SUPARCO, Pakistan's space agency?

Whatever be the truth, there are solid reasons for Russians to do all this:

1. Russia is scarce in funds and material resources. It needs all this to run high-end projects like space exploration, supercomputers, missile technology, and military R&D stuff etcetera. And they can share the costs for all this if they form alliance with India.

2. Russia's spy agency may have acute need of anonymity. Because CIA would try to sabotage Russia's civilian economy, administrative system, R&D projects, diplomatic efforts etcetera. So the way around this is to deflect CIA's ire by pretending that RAW is doing certain things and Russia is an uninterested and unrelated entity. For example a perception is that Indians are building Afghanistan to make it stable. But this caters to Russian interests. So could it be that Russians are the real builders and Indians are merely smokescreen? And at the same time Russians cannot be open about their influence lest they draw CIA's attention.

If Russia is indeed the ghost-writer of RAW's script, they have done a great job. In order to do this, they were thorough in their preparation. They learnt local languages ranging from Hindi to Tamil, Punjabi to Assamese, studied and understood the region's culture, economy and current issues, blended with the local population, worked out solution to local problems such as effecting turnaround in railway, influenced foreign policy decisions such as whether or not to send Indian troops to Iraq war when George Bush requested in 2003.

@AfrazulMandal

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Mystery of Russian & Soviet intelligence agencies!

It is theorized that the real power that drives RAW is actually Russian intelligence. Could it be true? Did Russians ghost-direct all of RAW's activities ever since it's inception in 1968? In other words, could it be true that for decades, Russians worked tirelessly behind the scene and are still working to run our own desi spy organization, RAW? It is theorized that just as Westerner's founded and established ISI, Pakistan's intelligence agency, Russians set up RAW and the difference was that Russians did it so anonymously that others don't know about this. Could it be true that the dictum of letting colleagues and subordinates take credit for successes actually applied to Russian officers and not to Kao? Could it be true that the trait of being in the midst of all Indian affairs - active but unseen - is actually of Russian officers and not of Kao? Should the Mujib-ur-Rehman's compliment of RAW knowing more about Bangladesh than Bangladesh's president himself should actually be reserved for Russian officers? Over the decades, have the Russian and Soviet intelligence agencies like KGB and it's later Russian versions been using RAW, India's external intelligence agency as an 'alias'? Is it true that Russia helped set up ISRO as an answer to USA helping SUPARCO, Pakistan's space agency?

Whatever be the truth, there are solid reasons for Russians to do all this:

1. Russia is scarce in funds and material resources. It needs all this to run high-end projects like space exploration, supercomputers, missile technology, and military R&D stuff etcetera. And they can share the costs for all this if they form alliance with India.

2. Russia's spy agency may have acute need of anonymity. Because CIA would try to sabotage Russia's civilian economy, administrative system, R&D projects, diplomatic efforts etcetera. So the way around this is to deflect CIA's ire by pretending that RAW is doing certain things and Russia is an uninterested and unrelated entity. For example a perception is that Indians are building Afghanistan to make it stable. But this caters to Russian interests. So could it be that Russians are the real builders and Indians are merely smokescreen? And at the same time Russians cannot be open about their influence lest they draw CIA's attention.

If Russia is indeed the ghost-writer of RAW's script, they have done a great job. In order to do this, they were thorough in their preparation. They learnt local languages ranging from Hindi to Tamil, Punjabi to Assamese, studied and understood the region's culture, economy and current issues, blended with the local population, worked out solution to local problems such as effecting turnaround in railway, influenced foreign policy decisions such as whether or not to send Indian troops to Iraq war when George Bush requested in 2003.

@omaromar

 

[delta2]

@omaromar

The USSR built all of India's technological infrastructure, even though much was built be the British before. It isn't beyond reality that they might have tweaked the British planted bureaucracy also. The British East India bureaucracy was not designed to build a thriving state, but instead to implement colonial policies leading to flow of capital and resources in a certain direction. The USSR might have tried to change that a bit.

The article appears to have no solid basis however and is mostly conjecture.