Muslims must become Hindus if they want respect: VHP leader

[janon]

Quran is more clear about shirk/idolatry. As for apostacy -- Quran mentions freedom of conscience as one of its basic tenets. "There is no compulsion in religion (2:256)," and "Let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve (18:29)." Belief is mentioned as a matter of personal choice. The next part of the latter verse makes it clear that God - not man - is the sole judge of faith (or the lack thereof) and will reward or punish as He wills in the Hereafter.

That's a selective reading. The quran leaves plenty of room to allow governments to punish apostates, and in some places, clearly condones it. And even if that weren't true, it is pointless to say that islam itself allows freedom of consience, when most islamic countries today and most islamic societies throughout the ages have had laws against apostacy, often with harsh punishments including death.

BTW, from the hadiths:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle.

" 'Abdullah (b. Mas'ūd) reported Allah's Messenger as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact) that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah, but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for a life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community."]

And this is what sharia has to say:

In Islamic law (sharia), the view among the majority of medieval jurists was that a male apostate must be put to death unless he suffers from a mental disorder or converted under duress, for example, due to an imminent danger of being killed. A female apostate must be either executed, according to Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh), or imprisoned until she reverts to Islam as advocated by the Sunni Hanafi school and by Shi'a scholars.[55]

This is what hass been practised by muslims since the beginning of islam. So saying that islam allows freedom of consience but muslims don't, doesn't change anything.

 

[OTTOMAN]

It is quite possible that some weak Muslims do abandon their faith

Call them weak Muslims or just born Muslims, same is the situation in Pakistan mountains, interior Sindh, central Punjab.
People have no true idea of Islam, you can tell them anything, in the name of Islam.
There is no education, govt. must organize to provide basis of Islam in schools, on the contrary Hinduism is taught and presented on PEMRA regulated cable tv.

 

[vegav]

Sharif family has close ties with them. Whereas what incentive would Shahi Imam have to invite Modi - the guy who oversaw the killing of over 1,000+ Muslims in Gujrat; same guy backed by RSS thugs who are going around doing ghar "wapsi" forced/pressured conversion programs

these guys are uncivilized thugs

compared to you guys,they are saints.

 

[rockstar08]

Respect based on Religion ... bravo .. what is next ? if you want respect , reborn in a white family ...

 

[suresh1773]

Its next to impossible to convert muslim to other faith.

In Pakistan,it might not be possible,but I have come across Muslims converting into Christanity or Hinduism

I know of a Muslim who converted to a Christian in America. But in general, Muslims and Hindus do not convert to other faith.

U r totally wrong,I can given u 101 examples but I would be running short of space.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

@Pomegranate
please focus your engry on large issue. .
raise question but as you have people who delcared ahmadi non muslsim kafir and what not .. jsut happned i think.. thread in pdf ... so we ahve few element who have hardline ..
if GOI take same stand then its worthy time and enegry..
if not its jsut flame and anger which result from these thread...
if we cant help to improve better not damage it..
so my request is take them pinch of salt till GOI take said that .. whcih will neverl happen ..
unfortunatly silence and non action by GOI and state govt also repsonsible for this mess..

 

[Kabira]

In Pakistan,it might not be possible,but I have come across Muslims converting into Christanity or Hinduism


U r totally wrong,I can given u 101 examples but I would be running short of space.

Beta even under British empire only hindus/sikhs converted to christianity in Pakistan.

 

[Gazprom]

Beta even under British empire only hindus/sikhs converted to christianity in Pakistan.

Defeated nation with a religion that has devoured it from within. Not much hope.

 

[suresh1773]

Beta even under British empire only hindus/sikhs converted to christianity in Pakistan.

Any vaild source to back up yr claims or simply shooting in the air

 

[Kabira]

Any vaild source to back up yr claims or simply shooting in the air

Sources are British officials themselves, i can't copy paste gazetteer here.

 

[KingMamba]

He is right & you are wrong. The law would be the law regardless of what anyone thought might be applicable. There is little appetite in the wider Hindu community for any conversions (unlike among Muslims & Christians) and the VHP knows that. This is both a way of applying pressure on the government as well as on the proselitisying communities. Regardless of how much "bad press" this results in, the VHP knows that it will win by coming off as being accommodative on an anti- conversion law while exposing those complaining as having double standards.

I don't care for all this "ghar-wapsi" type of attitudes but I also don't care for the conversions that others attempt. As long as there is no law against conversions, the VHP & any other groups are well within their rights to do the same thing.

There are plenty of examples a simple google search will show you that states otherwise. Both RSS and VHP leaders are on record saying that "ghar wapsi" is not a conversion but a reversion.

Beta even under British empire only hindus/sikhs converted to christianity in Pakistan.

Yep mostly mazhabi sikhs and low caste Hindus became Christian. In fact under the British empire Islam actually grew in Punjab whereas Hinduism and Sikhism fell and Christianity also grew.

1. Alter, J.P and J. Alter (1986) In the Doab and Rohilkhand: north Indian Christianity, 1815-1915. I.S.P.C.K publishing p196 -Most Punjabi Christians are converts from the HinduChuras and Mazhabi Sikhcaste to Christianity during the British raj.

This is the source for your claim. ^^

I know of a Muslim who converted to a Christian in America. But in general, Muslims and Hindus do not convert to other faith.

Hindus actually are more likely to become Christian in America. For example all the Indian American political leaders were followers of Indian religion but converted to some branch of Christianity.

 

[Bang Galore]

There are plenty of examples a simple google search will show you that states otherwise. Both RSS and VHP leaders are on record saying that "ghar wapsi" is not a conversion but a reversion..

Makes no difference under the law.

 

[timetravel]

India is a Hindu country. Why should anyone feel bad/shame about it. It is a fact and reality. Also for the minorities to stay peacefully, it is a necessity to have a strong Hindu majority. Conversions from Hinduism must be stopped at any cost.

1) Pass anti conversion law

2) bring back all previous Hindus back to Hinduism

3) I propose that the GOI pass a new law. As per this law all conversions after 1947 should be deemed illegal, and all persons who converted after 1947 should be brought back to their original faiths.