Muslim privates swear allegiance to Israel Defense Forces

[Saif al-Arab]

Logic, cousin. If an Arab like yourself maintains that a people - in this case, Jews - are to be accounted thieves to be oppressed and killed simply because they moved from one country to another, then by the same logic Arabs themselves, everywhere other than Arabia, are to be accounted thieves when they migrate to other countries. So you give license to the people in these "host" countries to kill Arabs as they will.

You now see why I maintain your argument isn't worthy of honor: because if you advocate it you also empower those who argue that Arabs should be dispossessed and expelled, regardless of their conduct, just for being Arabs. And what Arab honors a fellow Arab who advocates giving up his own?

Of course, you may hold that when it comes to the Arab case the argument should be changed so Arabs "win". In that case not only do you reveal yourself as an outright racist, you also cheat people of the expectations you had instilled in them about yourself and your conduct - another form of robbery, hence you're a thief that way as well.

First of all, did I not educate you earlier about the fact that Arab presence in Israel is as old as Jewish presence? Besides modern-day Arabs across the entire Arab world, aside from having Arab ancestry, are as well descendants of indigenous mostly Semitic peoples and other closely related peoples. In other words we are sons and daughters of the land that we inhabit and the ancient native civilizations that emerged in our lands. We are the cradle of civilization. Our NATIVE lands gave birth to the oldest civilizations, cultures and cities on the planet. Don't ever forget this. The world has not yet forgot.

The difference here is that you as an Ashkenazi Jew have little if no genetic relation to the land that you claim unlike the Palestinians. You are as well an invasive and occupying force, unlike the Palestinian Arabs. Moreover may I humbly add that all peoples are migrants at one point in history. Using your logic, just alone since the death of Prophet Muhammad (saws) the entire world map would have looked at least 90% differently and the country that you currently reside in along with other 300 + million migrants and their descendants, would still be inhabited by the Red Indians.

You can spin it all you want. What I wrote earlier remains the historical reality. You are yet to counter this. It is simply an impossibility to argue against it.

I will ask you again before you try to change the topic again, what would you call Israeli "Jews" such as your fellow Eastern European Ashkenazis, if they joined or aided Hamas or other Palestinian groups in the current conflict or future wars?

BTW did you know that what you call Israel today, that the Neolithic peoples who created the first Neolithic cultures in Southern Levant, show the greatest GENETIC affinity to modern-day Saudi Arabians the same people that you say Palestinians descend from? In such a case history has just repeated itself and the descendants of those first civilizations and cultures of Southern Levant have returned just by a different route.

I am forced to educate you again and so I will.

"Speaking about Neolithic peoples, Saudi Arabians show the greatest genetic affinity to Neolithic mummies.

Recently a DNA study proved that modern-day Saudi Arabians, Palestinians, Jordanians and Egyptians have the largest ancestral claim on the Neolithic civilizations that first appeared in Southern Levant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natufian_culture

A culture that existed from 12.5000 BC to 9.500 BC whose people are known to have built the first Neolithic settlements on the planet as well as made the first attempts at agriculture, organized included. It was also arguably the first sedentary culture of this size in the world as well.

Here are the DNA results from this year (2016)

https://plot.ly/~PortalAntropologiczny9cfa/1.embed?share_key=za9Lb3y1UX6nJRG9v4EXOL

Here is the entire report:

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/06/16/059311.full.pdf

It's quite cool that Saudi Arabians (in particular as they scored the highest percentage, one sample 60.38%!), Palestinians, Jordanians, "Israeli" Bedouins and Egyptians (afterwards other Arabs in the Near East and other MENA people) show the strongest genetic affinity to the ancient Natufian culture (12.500 BC - 9.500 BC) that was not only the first settled Neolithic civilization/community in the world but the first culture and people who introduced farming and built the first known settlements! More so knowing that the Natufians did not hail from the outside whether nearby Europe or Africa! They were indigenous."

Now can you in return show any single DNA test that shows that you as an Ashkenazi Jew of Eastern European extraction have even 10% of the genetic claim that Palestinians have let alone other regional Arabs NATIVE to the region, such as for instance Saudi Arabians and Jordanians? The answer is a resounding and big no. Therefore as I said, you along with other Ashkenazi Zionists are living a lie. Your entire identity is made up. False.

I am probably more Hebrew in terms of ancestry than you are and most Jews. Let alone Palestinians and other Arabs of the region.

Anyway it was long ago concluded that you do not care about historical facts or anything that resembles the truth. You do not even respect the religion that you supposedly claim to follow.

 

[fallstuff]

Muslim privates swear allegiance to IDF
The March 2016 cycle of Desert Reconnaissance Battalion soldiers were sworn in on Thursday, consisting largely of Muslim Bedouins, along with some Christian and Muslim Arabs, all of who volunteered for army service; 'I understood how important it was to give and do my part for the country in which I was born, that I live my life in, and that I'm proud of.'

Yoav Zitun | Published: 24.06.16 , 08:41

The swearing-in ceremony for the March 2016 cycle of Desert Reconnaissance Battalion soldiers was held on Thursday at the Memorial Monument to the Bedouin Warriors with the majority of the sworn-in soldiers being Muslim. Before their commanders and families, the soldiers, mostly Bedouins with some Muslim and Christian Arabs who volunteered to join the IDF, swore allegiance to the State of Israel and its defense.

The swearing-in ceremony took place three months after the beginning of the training course, eventually becoming full-fledged infantry soldiers.

Two IDF supplies: rifle and Koran (Photo: EPA)

Photo: EPA

Private Suliman el-Magnun holding the IDF Oath of Allegiance (Photo: EPA)

Newly sworn-in soldiers (Photo: EPA)


One of the soldiers who took part in the ceremony was 20-year-old Private Suliman el-Magnun, a resident of the Al-Fura village in the Bedouin area of the Negev. El-Magnun enlisted following his two brothers and a cousin's volunteering for the IDF as well. One of his brothers served in Golani and the other as a tracker. His cousin was in the Ordnance Corps.

A newly sworn-in private (Photo: EPA)

Commander and soldiers (Photo: EPA)

The IDF-provided Koran for swearing in (Photo: EPA)


"When we swore allegiance to the state, I did it with all my heart," said the excited private. "I understood how important it was to give and do my part for the country in which I was born, that I live my life in, and that I'm proud of."

Why not , considering whats going in in the Arab world.

 

[Solomon2]

Why not , considering whats going in in the Arab world.

"At the heart of the Arab psyche is a desire to improve the world. For centuries we've arrogantly assumed that only we had the answers when in fact it was either Jewish monotheism or Greek philosophy or Persian thought or Indian spirituality that we were rebranding and reconveying with added fervor. That's our area of specialisation, passion. Sometimes, often, too much passion that blinds our rationality. Time for Arabs to realise that Israel is what we want for the whole world. The ultimate mix of secular and religious influences that ensure a healthy, vibrant and resillient nation for all its citizens."

- Wassim, October 20, 2012

 

[Solomon2]

First of all, did I not educate you earlier about the fact that Arab presence in Israel is as old as Jewish presence?

...Although Jewish immigration to Palestine predates Zionism by centuries, the first major waves occurred in the late 1800s. Accurate demographic information about the Arab population of Palestine in the same time period is impossible to find, but it is apparent that the Arab population increased in concert with the Jewish population. An Ottoman population report for the Jerusalem district, which may not be accurate but is still instructive, shows the total population of the Jerusalem district (2/3 of Palestine) to increase dramatically between 1885 and 1910:

Year: 1885 1890 1900 1910
Population in 000: 233.2 336.1 341.6 382.1

While many claim "natural increase" to explain the Arab population growth, I have yet to see anyone explain why such natural growth should have only started in that time period. A regression analysis of the numbers above would indicate an absurdly tiny population in Palestine in the 18th century but by all indications it remained fairly steady at least since Christian pilgrims started writing about their travels there.

The most obvious explanation for the increase in Palestine's population is that many Arabs moved there. Jewish immigration brought in new capital, Jewish effort increased the amount of agriculture and industry, and Arabs naturally migrated to where they could honorably take care of their families. The entire Middle East was under the administration of the Ottoman Empire and there were no borders to stop Arab migration.

Arabs have, to this day, been naturally itinerant. Recent studies show that 70% of the residents of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates are immigrants and that "the world’s highest share of migrant population is to be found in the Middle East." The incomplete data we have coupled with the Arab history of migration and the Arab male's desire to support his family, together with the undeniable increase in the standard of living as the economy improved, all indicate a concurrent explosion of two immigrant populations in Palestine, Jews and Arabs, under the late days of the Ottoman Empire.

Interactions between the two groups seem to have been cordial although not as direct as one might think. Jews tended to employ Jews in the early decades of the Zionist movement and the Arab economic boom seems to have been more indirect from the infusion of new capital in the area rather than from direct employment.

It would be a mistake to confuse cordiality with respect, though - both the Arabs that moved to the area and the native Palestinian Arabs had a visceral hate for Jews as a people. A Christian travelogue published in 1874 noted the "Men in Palestine call their fellows 'Jew,' as the very lowest of all possible words of abuse." when explaining an insult of "Dogs, brutes, pigs, Jews!" So while practicalities and honor allowed Arabs to move to the area, and the Arab hospitality allowed them to interact relatively pleasantly, their innate hatred of Jews as a people far precedes Zionism.

The superficially cordial relations may have been the rule, but there were exceptions. The first Arab attack on a Jewish settlement occurred in 1886 when hundreds of Arabs descended on Petah Tikva in an attempt to destroy it. Around 1898 the Ottoman Empire outlawed Jewish ownership of land in Palestine but it reversed itself under European pressure in 1901. Arabs attacked Jews in Tiberias in 1901 and 1904, and in 1911 Arabs strongly protested the legal Jewish purchase of a large tract of land from the Sursuq absentee landlords of Beirut (the al-Fula incident.)

All of these incidents had one thing in common: Arabs protesting Jewish ownership of land in Palestine. No matter how legally the land was acquired, the very idea of Jews in control of land has historically caused reflexive Arab protest. Even in this early time period the Arab leaders would try to find legal arguments against Jewish land ownership.

History is almost necessarily weighted towards documents, and when historians talk about "Arabs" in this context it appears to refer to the Arab intelligentsia - the leaders, the writers, and those who are most likely to leave a record of their thoughts. Ordinary Arabs who moved to Palestine to work did not leave such a historical record, and their opinions of the Jews are left up to conjecture. While anti-semitism is a given in the Arab world at large, by the end of World War I they were starting to work directly for Jews. Clearly their antipathy for Jews did not outweigh their practical desire for jobs. In fact, there is some evidence that the most pronounced anti-semitism in the early 1900s came from Arab Christians, not Muslims.

In short, the average Arab in Palestine in this timeframe was more interested in his economic well-being than with politics or hating Jews. But that didn't mean that they could not be easily used by the press and by self-proclaimed leaders. The lack of sophistication among the average Arab, along with his sense of communal unity and his pre-existing biases, made him uniquely susceptible to manipulation by others. The entire concept of the "Arab street" has been a myth perpetuated by Arab leaders to strike fear into Westerners, and there was never a shortage of Arabs who could be easily manipulated into rioting or other violence.

These "leaders" had their own agenda. Arab nationalism emerged from a number of factors - the planting of nationalistic ideas from American missionary/teachers in the Middle East, the the decline of the Ottoman empire and early hopes for a pan-Arab state that would result, exposure to Zionist ideas and fear of Zionist plans being realized. In large part, Palestinian Arab nationalism seems to have been fueled more by their disgust at the possibility of Jews controlling any "Arab" land rather than any real desire to build their own country. The well-being of the Arab people themselves was never a part of the equation.

The best proof of Palestinian Arab "leaders" who had no interest in their followers except as pawns...

....Inevitably, contact between Jews and Arabs increased as Jews continued to immigrate to Palestine as well. The Arab leaders feared the possibility of persecuted Jews moving to Palestine by the millions and raised this issue as their single biggest concern to the British, constantly hammering away at that theme.

The Arab senses of honor and community started combining in a way that reverberates today. Not only is one's individual honor fantastically important in Arab culture, but also the honor of the Arab people as well. Just as personal disgrace is to be avoided at all costs, so is disgrace to the larger Arab community.

When these two factors are put together, it means that Arabs will almost never accept the blame for anything they do - to accept blame is to bring disgrace on the community. If there is someone else to blame for any problems, no matter how far-fetched, the natural Arab tendency will be to grab onto any possible tenuous thread that supports the ability to blame the Others and escape responsibility.

In this early example, the illegal Arab immigration that caused the economic problems was swept under the rug...

...Arab leaders know how much the people abhor breaking ranks with the larger Arab world, and they take advantage of it. As long as their selfish actions can be construed as being for the Arab community, any public disagreements or dissent is self-censored. In private, Arab individuals can and do argue and criticize their leaders, but their ability to organize any real opposition is hampered by this fear of disgracing the community at large and embarrassing the Arab world in view of the West...

...An interesting aspect of "honor" is that, in the context of conflict, it is something that can be defended but not something that can be initiated. Throwing the first punch is not honorable. Defending one's family, people and religion, however, is praiseworthy.

An Arab leader who seeks the honor that comes from being a great warrior, therefore, needs to find a pretext for attacking - a reason to make his attack look defensive. The flimsiest excuse will do, and the Arab mentality provides the ability to interpret anything at all as a gross insult to the Arab people or to Islam. Here's why:

The guilt culture of the West is based, at least nominally, on reality - facts and results and accomplishments are the building blocks of the Western mindset..

The shame culture of the East, on the other hand, is based on perception, on how one is viewed rather than what he has actually done...

...Hebron bore the brunt of the Arab gangs, who not only killed all the Jews they could find but also raped and mutilated women and children. (Many of the Hebron victims were American yeshiva students.) In the end, over a hundred Jews had been murdered by the murderous Arab mobs.

It is notable that the victims were, by and large, not Zionist and not new immigrants - Hebron, Safed and Jerusalem each hosted ancient Jewish communities. The attacks, instigated by the Mufti and his cronies, were the purest manifestation of anti-semitism imaginable.

It is unclear who actually participated in the riots. Accounts of the Hebron massacre do not mention any of the victims knowing the Arabs who were attacking. Many in Hebron were in fact saved by their Arab neighbors. It can be guessed that the mobs were most likely comprised of young, unemployed men who were loyal to the Mufti, and this loyalty came both from his charisma and his power. But in the aftermath of these pogroms we find none of the self-criticism that followed the 1921 riots...

...The pogrom instigated by the Mufti ended up giving him more power than ever, and the Jews wound up being punished by the British desire to not upset the Arabs. Violence against Jews, proven to be effective twice, was now the preferredmodus operandi of the Palestinian Arab leaders for political gain...

...riots quickly spread to Haifa, Nablus and Jerusalem, leaving a total of some 14 Arabs dead. The major grievance was stated as "Jewish immigrants have so much money that poor Arab farmers are tempted and sell out to them. Unless something is done the Jews will slowly buy up all of Palestine." Interestingly, at this time no one was talking about Jews forcing Arabs out, and in fact there was still plenty of illegal Arab immigration besides the, then legal, Jewish immigration....

...Centuries of being dominated by outsiders take an inevitable toll on people, especially people as proud and wedded to honor as Arabs are...Any leader who uncompromisingly promised to restore Arab unity and pride, using the time-honored tradition of the Arabic sword, held an irresistible sway among even the more practical Arabs who grew up with the idea of a dormant but inevitable Arab supremacy....

...hostilities that started in 1947 changed the calculus in their minds of where they should live. Itinerancy was in their blood, and the idea of moving to another Arab country was not so forbidding - the borders between Arab nations were a fairly arbitrary Western invention and the typical Arab did not recognize them. Arabs had moved freely within the Middle East for centuries and they would continue to do so for centuries more as necessary, and Arabs are famously generous to their guests.

In other words, Arabs were not only calculating the costs/benefits of leaving Palestine, but they were also calculating the costs and benefits of moving elsewhere, where they can start life anew yet again, in honor and dignity.

To understand better why the Arabs left Palestine, it is instructive to ask another question: why didn't the Jews leave Palestine? They were being massacred, they were facing war, they had an uncertain future at best. They had no less fear than the Arabs who were abandoning their homes by the hundreds of thousands.

But there were two major differences between the Palestinian Jews and the Palestinian Arabs.

While the Arabs moved to Palestine for mostly practical, economic reasons, the Jews moved there for ideological and religious reasons. Simply put, the Jews had a deep love of the land, and the Palestinian Arabs at the time had very little.

Even more important, though, is the differences in the incentives to leave. The Arabs didn't think that there was much of a downside to leaving - they would either live with their neighbors for a short time while the Arabs destroy the Jewish state and then they would return, or at worst they would be able to start over in another Arab area. The Jews, on the other hand, simply had no other place to go.

It wasn't until the end of 1948 that the Arabs of Palestine started realizing that their calculus was terribly wrong. Instead of being welcomed by their Arab brethren, they were dumped into refugee camps; instead of this being a temporary situation where they would be able to move to their homes in Palestine, the Jews had no interest in welcoming back people who effectively supported their annihilation...Abu Ghosh shows how the events of 1948 could have turned out had the Arabs treated the Jews as equals. While some of what Israel did to the residents of the village may be regrettable, it also shows that Israel had no policy of ethnic cleansing Arab villages and that her wartime decisions were based on real life and death circumstances. Abu Ghosh was not unique....

...The residents of Abu Ghosh are proud citizens of the State of Israel and the Jews are proud to have them as neighbors. The shortsightedness and bigotry of most of the Palestinian Arabs, however, keep them on the outside looking in. From there, they can see how the people they decry as "collaborators" are living with the hated Jews, and they can compare this to their own miserable existence at the hands of their so-called "brethren..."

...The Palestine Liberation Organization was launched in 1964. Ostensibly, it was formed as a result of a meeting of the "Palestinian National Council" that held its first meeting only a few days beforehand, but in fact it was created by the Arab League in its Cairo meeting in June of that year. The PNC itself is a more subtle example of Arabs using Palestinian Arabs as pawns in their plans - the vast majority of delegates to the PNC are from the Palestinian "disapora " not from those who are actually suffering in camps.

The first leader of the PLO was Ahmad Shukairy, who was born in Lebanon. He drafted the "Palestinian National Charter",...

...the section in Article 11 where the charter comes close to admitting that preserving what can only be described as precarious Palestinian "personality" is only important "at this stage of its struggle." This strongly implies that once Palestine is "liberated" from the grips of the Jews, the national aspirations of the Palestinian Arabs would disappear and become subsumed into a more general unified Arab state....the original purpose of the PLO and the PNC becomes clear: to keep the Palestinian Arabs from ever assimilating into the Arab world as long as they can remain useful to pressure Israel internationally. Once this usefulness disappears, so would the Palestinian people. It was not an organization that was interested in the welfare of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in need, rather it was fixated on how to use them to destroy Israel...

 

[fallstuff]

"At the heart of the Arab psyche is a desire to improve the world. For centuries we've arrogantly assumed that only we had the answers when in fact it was either Jewish monotheism or Greek philosophy or Persian thought or Indian spirituality that we were rebranding and reconveying with added fervor. That's our area of specialisation, passion. Sometimes, often, too much passion that blinds our rationality. Time for Arabs to realise that Israel is what we want for the whole world. The ultimate mix of secular and religious influences that ensure a healthy, vibrant and resillient nation for all its citizens."

- Wassim, October 20, 2012

I have no idea who Wassim is, but his comments are short sighted.

Wassim is wrong, its not only the Arabs who think their's is better, conservative folks from any religion or ideology hold similar beliefs. Given a choice I would not want to live with in a nation with, " The ultimate mix of secular and religious influences" similar as Israel.