Muslim and Hindu leaders who were loyalists of British Empire

[FaujHistorian]

He was a Molvi sir, a parha likha Mulla the brain child of Two Nation Theory!!!

As far as Molvis r concern they are a real shame not but to our Nation but for Islam as well. Do u know sir Jamat e Islam was against the creation of Pakistan till the last second!

BTW here is more abt Shah Mehmood Qureshi!!! He is a jageer daar of Multan! in 2013's Tahreek e Rashmi Rumaal against British his grand dad sided with British and act as their spy in making sure it fails. And in response to his loyalty the Queen and the British indian gov gave him large piece of land where he became the Landlord!!!

brain child?

Can you elaborate more on the first sentence, how could have Gandhi coaxed British to leave their prized possession at the peak of their power ??

They were done with British India long long long time ago.

Why on earth they would call not one, not two but three round table conferences.

Do you know why it is called a round table conference?

 

[INDIC]

They were done with British India long long long time ago.

Why on earth they would call not one, not two but three round table conferences.

Do you know why it is called a round table conference?

British were all powerful until the World War 2, So you are just bringing in your own stories for the overstay of British in India.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

brain child?

Sorry it was 1913.

Yup brain Child! But i guess if we discuss this it will be more abt our views about Two Nation Theory being right or wrong.

 

[scorpionx]

British were all powerful until the World War 2, So you are just bringing in your own stories for the overstay of British in India.

I humbly disagree with this view point. Please take a careful look at other parts of the world at the same time.The process of decolonization started long long ago.By 1907, the Empire conceded dominion status to all it's white settlements in Australia, New Zea Land, Canada and South Africa. The Irish were already thought to be given autonomy. By the end of war, with the fall of Hubs berg, the Ottomans and the Tsarists, it was evident that foreign occupations are no longer immortal in this world.

After the Wafd agitation led by Saad Zhoglul, Egypt was given semi independence status. Same was the fate of Iraq and Transjordan with other regions that the British inherited from the Turks.

Although, there was powerful quarters in Britain who were die hard supporters for Imperialism and protecting India as it's eternal colony, major part of British elites believed that a sort of "self rule" was unavoidable for India.From 1920's it was obvious like day light that India is literally ungovernable without support from the native elites who were leading the mass movements and colonial iron fist can no longer protect the jewel of the crown. Our leaders did not realized it then and when they realized it British were no longer able to hold India due to it's economic condition( Second World War).

 

[FaujHistorian]

Sorry it was 1913.

Yup brain Child! But i guess if we discuss this it will be more abt our views about Two Nation Theory being right or wrong.

In my view it wasn't TNT, rather an MNT (Multi nation theory)

But Hindu leaders successfully turned into TNT.

That in turn was based on MMP (Muslim Majority Provinces) vs. NMP (Non Muslim Majority Provines)

 

[INDIC]

I humbly disagree with this view point. Please take a careful look at other parts of the world at the same time.The process of decolonization started long long ago.By 1907, the Empire conceded dominion status to all it's white settlements in Australia, New Zea Land, Canada and South Africa. The Irish were already thought to be given autonomy. By the end of war, with the fall of Hubs berg, the Ottomans and the Tsarists, it was evident that foreign occupations are no longer immortal in this world.

After the Wafd agitation led by Saad Zhoglul, Egypt was given semi independence status. Same was the fate of Iraq and Transjordan with other regions that the British inherited from the Turks.

Although, there was powerful quarters in Britain who were die hard supporters for Imperialism and protecting India as it's eternal colony, major part of British elites believed that a sort of "self rule" was unavoidable for India.From 1920's it was obvious like day light that India is literally ungovernable without support from the native elites who were leading the mass movements and colonial iron fist can no longer protect the jewel of the crown. Our leaders did not realized it then and when they realized it British were no longer able to hold India due to it's economic condition.

You forgot the 26 January, 1930 Lahore Session of Congress. There was difference between settlers from England in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa with those of India. Irish Free State was after huge turmoil, it wasn't like the loyal English settlers in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. The post-World War 1 world was more favorable for Britain.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

In my view it wasn't TNT, rather an MNT (Multi nation theory)

But Hindu leaders successfully turned into TNT.

That in turn was based on MMP (Muslim Majority Provinces) vs. NMP (Non Muslim Majority Provines)

in my view it wasnt right sir.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I humbly disagree with this view point. Please take a careful look at other parts of the world at the same time.The process of decolonization started long long ago.By 1907, the Empire conceded dominion status to all it's white settlements in Australia, New Zea Land, Canada and South Africa. The Irish were already thought to be given autonomy. By the end of war, with the fall of Hubs berg, the Ottomans and the Tsarists, it was evident that foreign occupations are no longer immortal in this world.

After the Wafd agitation led by Saad Zhoglul, Egypt was given semi independence status. Same was the fate of Iraq and Transjordan with other regions that the British inherited from the Turks.

Although, there was powerful quarters in Britain who were die hard supporters for Imperialism and protecting India as it's eternal colony, major part of British elites believed that a sort of "self rule" was unavoidable for India.From 1920's it was obvious like day light that India is literally ungovernable without support from the native elites who were leading the mass movements and colonial iron fist can no longer protect the jewel of the crown. Our leaders did not realized it then and when they realized it British were no longer able to hold India due to it's economic condition( Second World War).

Excellent post Janab Sahib.

Not many people realize/accept that Brits wanted to give up control to some kind of self rule even in late 1800s when they helped to start the party called INC.

My 2 cents.

 

[SrNair]

you can get from point A to B in 10 months or 10 years. your choice.

Gandhi tactics took the 10 year route. Perhaps helping British to extend their time here.

But we think that extended 10 years is worthy .There is no point in independence if we cant form a strong nation.Gandhiji important contribution is also that.His method was helpful for British for looting our country.
But his campaign including the visit of 100 of villages united our nation and gave a strong foundation.What is need for an early independence if it create internally weak unstable nation.

 

[FaujHistorian]

in my view it wasnt right sir.

MNT or TNT

MMP vs. NMP?

But we think that extended 10 years is worthy .There is no point in independence if we cant form a strong nation.Gandhiji important contribution is also that.His method was helpful for British for looting our country.
But his campaign including the visit of 100 of villages united our nation and gave a strong foundation.What is need for an early independence if it create internally weak unstable nation.

Your view.

incorrect from historical perspective.

But your view.

and I respect that

 

[SrNair]

MNT or TNT

MMP vs. NMP?



Your view.

incorrect from historical perspective.

But your view.

and I respect that

I also read too much about this stuffs.I also thought about the point you mentioned when i first read all this.When the leaders of othrr nations used arms for their independence why did Gandhi used such slow response tactics for our independence.
But later when I know more about our social set up.I realised that was a good tactic.
May you know that.
There is avreason for the rapid growth of the Tamil nationalparties in TN short after independence.
An armed revolt cant convince all diversified culture in India .But Gandhis policy could.

 

[scorpionx]

You forgot the 26 January, 1930 Lahore Session of Congress. There was difference between settlers from England in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa with those of India. Irish Free State was after huge turmoil, it wasn't like the loyal English settlers in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. The post-World War 1 world was more favorable for Britain.

My point was the intention of the British. They were ready to loosen the rope. After First World War, the size of the empire swelled but the confidence of it's protectors started diminishing. So, Size actually did not matter. There are reasons why the British gave up their possessions right after 1945 but the other colonial powers like French and the Dutch didn't. We can discuss it some other time.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

MNT or TNT

MMP vs. NMP?



Your view.

incorrect from historical perspective.

But your view.

and I respect that

well my view is more about something being principally right or not.......

 

[user1]

I humbly disagree with this view point. Please take a careful look at other parts of the world at the same time.The process of decolonization started long long ago.By 1907, the Empire conceded dominion status to all it's white settlements in Australia, New Zea Land, Canada and South Africa. The Irish were already thought to be given autonomy. By the end of war, with the fall of Hubs berg, the Ottomans and the Tsarists, it was evident that foreign occupations are no longer immortal in this world.

After the Wafd agitation led by Saad Zhoglul, Egypt was given semi independence status. Same was the fate of Iraq and Transjordan with other regions that the British inherited from the Turks.

Although, there was powerful quarters in Britain who were die hard supporters for Imperialism and protecting India as it's eternal colony, major part of British elites believed that a sort of "self rule" was unavoidable for India.From 1920's it was obvious like day light that India is literally ungovernable without support from the native elites who were leading the mass movements and colonial iron fist can no longer protect the jewel of the crown. Our leaders did not realized it then and when they realized it British were no longer able to hold India due to it's economic condition( Second World War).

I just want to add further that because of further expansion of British Empire after WWI (Post-Ottoman Arab States) and the emergence of USA as a world power and British financial overlord; (Woodrow) Wilsonian Doctrine of self-determination was ascendant. So, British came up with a new mode of colonialism. As Lord Curzon had said that the optimum was an Arab facade ruled and administered under British guidance and controlled by a native Mohammedan, and as far as possible by an Arab staff... There should be no actual incorporation of the conquered territory in the dominionons of the conqueror, but the absorption may be veiled by such constituitonal fictions as a protectorate, a sphere of influence, a buffer state and so on.

This strategy was fully utilised by USA after it became 'The Superpower' after WWII.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

So founder of Bidati/bareilwi sect, Ahmad raza khan, was a British agent. I already knew that they were pro-british but now i have learnt that british created bareilwi/bidati sect to counter deobandis. Its funny that british agent ahmad raza khan declared jihad against british haram. Lol
@Azlan Haider if british felt the need to infilterate deobandi ranks through their agents like mullah marwat, then it means deobandis were their enemies and you infilterate your enemy ranks through secret agents. E.g there are also secret ISI agents who have infilterated TTP ranks.

In shor ahle-bid'aa (bareilwis) , ahle-tabarra (shias) and Qadianis were british agents.