Musharraf agreed in 2000 to low-key UN resolutions on Kashmir: US cable

[!eon]

What is happening today was on the verge of happening before they came.

No Sir, I disagree. Thats just a theory of yours.
Hindus and Muslims fought together in 1857 against Brits.

 

[vsdoc]

No Sir, I disagree. Thats just a theory of yours.
Hindus and Muslims fought together in 1857 against Brits.

Not true.

They each fought for their own empire. The Hindus to finish what the Marathas almost did. The Muslims to revive and salvage what they could of the moribund Mughal empire.

The Brits just happened to be at the other end.

Which is why 1857 was always going to fail.

 

[!eon]

Not true.

They each fought for their own empire. The Hindus to finish what the Marathas almost did. The Muslims to revive and salvage what they could of the moribund Mughal empire.

The Brits just happened to be at the other end.

Which is why 1857 was always going to fail.

Lack of decision power of old and sick king led to failure in war. The cause was same, through the Brits out of country.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I think you do a disservice to my generation. Or that of @Capt.Popeye or @third eye .

There is no desire for appeasement.

Only the patience and the means to strangle the life out of a movement.

That is absolutely correct. There is no other way than to let a particular movement or line of action run out of gas or run aground. Not every thing needs to be reacted to. Never lose sight of the 'larger picture' is the more important paradigm. We can now see the results in 7 decades of existence.

 

[vsdoc]

That is absolutely correct. There is no other way than to let a particular movement or line of action run out of gas or run aground. Not every thing needs to be reacted to. Never lose sight of the 'larger picture' is the more important paradigm. We can now see the results in 7 decades of existence.

Classically, what is seen globally by experts, the lifespan of an armed insurgency is 25-30 years. Some like the Nagas bucked that trend, but that is more due to a combination of internal dynamics than anything else.

The Kashmir insurgency is gasping for air. And the current mouth to mouth from across the border is proving inadequate.

Pakistan lost a crucial 15 years.

Or were made to lose.

Depending on how much one knows of what there is to know.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Classically, what is seen globally by experts, the lifespan of an armed insurgency is 25-30 years. Some like the Nagas bucked that trend, but that is more due to a combination of internal dynamics than anything else.

The Kashmir insurgency is gasping for air. And the current mouth to mouth from across the border is proving inadequate.

Pakistan lost a crucial 15 years.

Or were made to lose.

Depending on how much one knows of what there is to know.

I'd go with that.

The Naga matter is now simply driven by 'internal dynamics'; i.e, inter-tribal rivalries, ironically based on which tribal grouping is able to get some benefits and powers out of GoI and which group is able to run the 'extortion based' "taxation-system" there.

Kashmir has similar opportunists running the show. A.S. Dulat's book has simply unmasked how the honchos are used to living off the doles, once from one side; then from the other. The periodical 'oxygen' that is sought to be given by umma-shumma types is also running out of gas.

People think that the Vale of Kashmir represents entire J & K. It is not so.

People of Jammu and people of Ladakh now want to be "de-hypenated" from the kashmir mess. See the situation when that happens. All the existing leaders in Kashmir will fall flat on their faces. As it is these are the natural fault-lines in J&K, which gets overlooked so easily.

 

[vsdoc]

I'd go with that.

The Naga matter is now simply driven by 'internal dynamics'; i.e, inter-tribal rivalries, ironically based on which tribal grouping is able to get some benefits and powers out of GoI and which group is able to run the 'extortion based' "taxation-system" there.

Kashmir has similar opportunists running the show. A.S. Dulat's book has simply unmasked how the honchos are used to living off the doles, once from one side; then from the other. The periodical 'oxygen' that is sought to be given by umma-shumma types is also running out of gas.

People think that the Vale of Kashmir represents entire J & K. It is not so.

People of Jammu and people of Ladakh now want to be "de-hypenated" from the kashmir mess. See the situation when that happens. All the existing leaders in Kashmir will fall flat on their faces. As it is these are the natural fault-lines in J&K, which gets overlooked so easily.

The fact is that there is a lot of money to be made in Kashmir. With zero audit trail and accountability. A huge black hole of funds which go in and nothing comes out.

The only thing that can buck that trend and make things uncomfortable for a lot of people, and bring things in the valley to a head, is if by a quirk of chance the common Kashmiri grows a brain and realizes what has been happening.

And then takes to the streets in a mass uprising. Demanding full and equal statehood from India, abolishment of Article 370, and denouncing Pakistan openly and unequivocally.

See the cat among the pigeons then.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The fact is that there is a lot of money to be made in Kashmir. With zero audit trail and accountability. A huge black hole of funds which go in and nothing comes out.

The only thing that can buck that trend and make things uncomfortable for a lot of people, and bring things in the valley to a head, is if by a quirk of chance the common Kashmiri grows a brain and realizes what has been happening.

And then takes to the streets in a mass uprising. Demanding full and equal statehood from India, abolishment of Article 370, and denouncing Pakistan openly and unequivocally.

See the cat among the pigeons then.

If one wants to really set the "cat among the pigeons" loose, then divide J & K into the three administrative units of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh. It will immediately set right the regional imbalances; and will be welcomed instantly by their residents, as a means to correct the heavily skewed imbalance towards Kashmir. Watch the fun then, after that.

 

[vsdoc]

If one wants to really set the "cat among the pigeons" loose, then divide J & K into the three administrative units of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh. It will immediately set right the regional imbalances; and will be welcomed instantly by their residents, as a means to correct the heavily skewed imbalance towards Kashmir. Watch the fun then, after that.

I always thought it was in India's interest strategically to have the J&K hyphenation rather than the valley as a standalone Kashmir unit?

@third eye @Bang Galore @SarthakGanguly

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I always thought it was in India's interest strategically to have the J&K hyphenation rather than the valley as a standalone Kashmir unit?

@third eye @Bang Galore @SarthakGanguly

Not exactly, in the present dispensation; all power and most of the finances devolve to Kashmir, which is resented by the other two units, mainly Ladakh. They want a correction of that. Srinagar allows very little to flow to Leh. Change that and see.

 

[Bang Galore]

I always thought it was in India's interest strategically to have the J&K hyphenation rather than the valley as a standalone Kashmir unit?

I agree with you. A hyphenated Kashmir suits us for now.

 

[vsdoc]

Not exactly, in the present dispensation; all power and most of the finances devolve to Kashmir, which is resented by the other two units, mainly Ladakh. They want a correction of that. Srinagar allows very little to flow to Leh. Change that and see.

Agreed.

But it also gives us a populace dilution leverage of the Muslim card in response to Pakistan.

And a package deal which makes any possibility of just de-linking Muslim dominated valley an impossibility in the dispute talks.

All of it moot anyways when we hold Kashmir.

 

[Bang Galore]

Not exactly, in the present dispensation; all power and most of the finances devolve to Kashmir, which is resented by the other two units, mainly Ladakh. They want a correction of that. Srinagar allows very little to flow to Leh. Change that and see.

You are correct on administrative grounds. @vsdoc is probably talking from the political viewpoint. As long as there is hyphenation & two of the three areas want nothing to do with the rubbish that some in Kashmir put out, it makes the Indian case much easier.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

You are correct on administrative grounds. @vsdoc is probably talking from the political viewpoint. As long as there is hyphenation & two of the three areas want nothing to do with the rubbish that some in Kashmir put out, it makes the Indian case much easier.

I am talking on administrative grounds, separate the administration of the three units, give separate central funding to the three units while keeping the political entity as it is. The "tevar" of the kashmiri separatist elements will sink further.

 

[Neutron]

Kashmir is the jugular vein of Pakistan. It is principle stance of Pakistan and people of kashmir. We can't step back even an inch.