Mountain strike corps formally raised, its 1st division formed

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

And you still did not provide any specs to suggest the Z20 will match/exceed the service ceiling of our Helicopters. Your own sources claim a laughable 3000ft altitude! Idiocy much, my Suppaman?

I don't need to prove your anything about Z-20 with specs since the flight test just started few days ago LOL, the simple logic is enough: Black hawk was capable as platform for Tibet operation that PLA army has operated since 1980s, you can assume Z-20 will be able to do the same if not more...unless you still have mind set that Chinese's Z-20 is inferior than 1970's blackhawk.

 

[Indischer]

I don't need to prove your anything about Z-20 with specs since the flight test just started few days ago LOL, the simple logic is enough: Black hawk was capable as platform for Tibet operation that PLA army has operated since 1980s, you can assume Z-20 will be able to do the same if not more...unless you still have mind set that Chinese's Z-20 is inferior than 1970's blackhawk.

My amusement stems from the fact that you seem to indicate that China would not have been able to counter our mountain divisions without this new Helicopter, which is mildly delusional. China has capable platforms already operating in Tibet and the introduction of a utility helicopter isn't a game-changer in the Himalayas as you're trying so hard to portray the Z20 here.

The Z20 does the same job as a few utility helis like Mi17s or Sikorsky UH60s. It's merely intended to replace a few older platforms and isn't a revolutionary design that India or any other country has to be afraid of. Get it now, my Suppaman?

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

My amusement stems from the fact that you seem to indicate that China would not have been able to counter our mountain divisions without this new Helicopter, which is mildly delusional. China has capable platforms already operating in Tibet and the introduction of a utility helicopter isn't a game-changer in the Himalayas as you're trying so hard to portray the Z20 here.

The Z20 does the same job as a few utility helis like Mi17s or Sikorsky UH60s. It's merely intended to replace a few older platforms and isn't a revolutionary design that India or any other country has to be afraid of. Get it now, my Suppaman?

Lol I have never said that PLA will be useless without Z-20, what I said is that with Z-20, we can have form a more effective rapide deployment in Tibet to answer Indian strike corps. Mi-17 is merely a trooper transport with thin armor while UH60 has better protection and much suitable to form an rapide airbone assault .

 

[Indischer]

Lol I have never said that PLA will be useless without Z-20, what I said is that with Z-20, we can have form a more effective rapide deployment in Tibet to answer Indian strike corps. Mi-17 is merely a trooper transport with thin armor while UH60 has better protection and much suitable to form an rapide airbone assault .

So all of a sudden the Mi17's armour is thin! Cool story. As I said before, you haven't provided any metrics to substantiate your claims. Has the Z20 withstood any SAM hits for you to say their armour is any different from Mi17s? And just how rapid is this rapid heliborne assault with Z20s??

The Mi17s and the UH60s both have similar take-off weights and top speeds. If the Z20 is similar to Black Hawks, it cannot offer any substantial advantages other than better fuel mileage and a newer airframe. Hence, refrain from making silly comments like you've made at the start of this thread.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

So all of a sudden the Mi17's armour is thin! Cool story. As I said before, you haven't provided any metrics to substantiate your claims. Has the Z20 withstood any SAM hits for you to say their armour is any different from Mi17s? And just how rapid is this rapid heliborne assault with Z20s??

The Mi17s and the UH60s both have similar take-off weights and top speeds. If the Z20 is similar to Black Hawks, it cannot offer any substantial advantages other than better fuel mileage and a newer airframe. Hence, refrain from making silly comments like you've made at the start of this thread.

I don't think Mi-17 can withstand the crash and gun hits as blackhawk...i mean in term of survivability.
let the attached video speak for itself and i think it's the main reason PLA still want to pursuit the blackhawk design as Z-20 even it's already almost 4 decades old. As you claim that Blackhawk and Mi-17 has more less the same performance, I'm wondering which one the audience will chose?

 

[Indischer]

I don't think Mi-17 can withstand the crash and gun hits as blackhawk...i mean in term of survivability.
let the attached video speak for itself and i think it's the main reason PLA still want to pursuit the blackhawk design as Z-20 even it's already almost 4 decades old. As you claim that Blackhawk and Mi-17 has more less the same performance, I'm wondering which one the audience will chose?

I don't know about the audience here, but Armies sure have shown their affinity to the Mi17. See for yourself the number of countries operating the Mi17 as compared to the UH60/70.

In any case, no such utility helicopters are sturdy enough to withstand SAM/MANPAD attacks. The Z20 will be no different.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

I don't know about the audience here, but Armies sure have shown their affinity to the Mi17. See for yourself the number of countries operating the Mi17 as compared to the UH60/70.

In any case, no such utility helicopters are sturdy enough to withstand SAM/MANPAD attacks. The Z20 will be no different.

Lol that's because U.S impose embargo on China and some other countries...otherwise you will see a huge fleet of blackhawks flown over China...but It' better this way the sooner they imposed embargo on China, the better is for Chinese gorvernment to realize on how to rely on ourself. People will get Mi-17 when they dont have choice. same for India when you have choice you want to buy C-17 and hercules instead of Il-76 or An-12.

Sure no helicopters are sturdy enough to withstand the sam but at least we choose the the best amount the worst...this has alway been the military philosophy.

 

[Indischer]

Lol that's because U.S impose embargo on China and some other countries...otherwise you will see a huge fleet of blackhawks flown over China...but It' better this way the sooner they imposed embargo on China, the better is for Chinese gorvernment to realize on how to rely on ourself. People will get Mi-17 when they dont have choice. same for India when you have choice you want to buy C-17 and hercules instead of Il-76 or An-12.

Sure no helicopters are sturdy enough to withstand the sam but at least we choose the the best amount the worst...this has alway been the military philosophy.

I guess you don't know that India ordered a further 80 Mi-17 Helis in 2008 and is planning to order 60 more. Perhaps you can also explain why India has done so?

But finally, you've accepted that the Z20 is a UH60 clone whose development has more to do with technology denial and sanctions and less to do with improving the capabilities of Mi-17s/UH60s or Helis of similar class. That's good progress for one day!

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

I guess you don't know that India ordered a further 80 Mi-17 Helis in 2008 and is planning to order 60 more. Perhaps you can also explain why India has done so?

But finally, you've accepted that the Z20 is a UH60 clone whose development has more to do with technology denial and sanctions and less to do with improving the capabilities of Mi-17s/UH60s or Helis of similar class. That's good progress for one day!

you order Mi-17 because 60% to 70% of Indian military harwares are from Russia and ex-soviet, If India decide to stop ordering armement for Russia...than you can kiss good bye for spare parts from Russia.

Z-20 is more than a UH60 clone: 5 blades, apache scisor tail and some other non visual changes, Blackhawk is just a foundation for Z-20, I don't think PLA procurement officiers are enjoyed with 1970s technologies unless Z-20 designer team can come up with some interesting modification & offers.

 

[cirr]

An India corps is far more than a PLA group army in terms of soldier count.

A Chinese division,which is nowadays a rarity in the PLA, has some 10000 men, while an Indian division has over 30000?

 

[Indischer]

you order Mi-17 because 60% to 70% of Indian military harwares are from Russia and ex-soviet, If India decide to stop ordering armement for Russia...than you can kiss good bye for spare parts from Russia.

Z-20 is more than a UH60 clone: 5 blades, apache scisor tail and some other non visual changes, Blackhawk is just a foundation for Z-20, I don't think PLA procurement officiers are enjoyed with 1970s technologies unless Z-20 designer team can come up with some interesting modification & offers.

And yet wasn't it you who said that if possible India would take Western hardware over Russian hardware?? I was merely pointing out that not all Western hardware is top-notch/suitable for our unique needs. Anyways, I guess we've deviated quite a bit from the topic of the thread and hence, let's not prolong this here.

Think hard before making silly statements henceforth. Neither are we Tandooris for PLA nor are you Noodles for IA.

An India corps is far more than a PLA group army in terms of soldier count.

A Chinese division,which is nowadays a rarity in the PLA, has some 10000 men, while an Indian division has over 30000?

Yes, the typical Indian and Pakistani divisions usually have more than 20000 troops.

 

[saikumar]

go india go

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

And yet wasn't it you who said that if possible India would take Western hardware over Russian hardware?? I was merely pointing out that not all Western hardware is top-notch/suitable for our unique needs. Anyways, I guess we've deviated quite a bit from the topic of the thread and hence, let's not prolong this here.

Think hard before making silly statements henceforth. Neither are we Tandooris for PLA nor are you Noodles for IA.

Yes I said that when India has the chose you will chose western equipment but India don't have the choice, you need to give Russia some face saving and motivate the way that Russia don't make any nasty moves such sell better equipments to China or helping Pakistan...this was done under geo-political considerations...and also when you're heavlily rely on Russia military...will be hard to find an exit.

I don't make any silly statements even from my first post on this thread: I said that Indian mountain strike corps will be tandooris when we form our rapid reaction forces in Tibet with Z-20 in the sense that in any conflict only one will prevail...I just put my bet on PLA...you can bet on your army.

 

[Indischer]

Yes I said that when India has the chose you will chose western equipment but India don't have the choice, you need to give Russia some face saving and motivate the way that Russia don't make any nasty moves such sell better equipments to China or helping Pakistan...this was done under geo-political considerations...and also when you're heavlily rely on Russia military...will be hard to find an exit.

I don't make any silly statements even from my first post on this thread: I said that Indian mountain strike corps will be tandooris when we form our rapid reaction forces in Tibet with Z-20 in the sense that in any conflict only one will prevail...I just put my bet on PLA...you can bet on your army.

Whatever makes you happy dude. I understood perfectly well what you said before and it was silly and fanboy-ish. Moreover, India and China are too big to be invaded/conquered by either Nation. You can bet on PLA all you like, but spare us your childish comments please.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Whatever makes you happy dude. I understood perfectly well what you said before and it was silly and fanboy-ish. Moreover, India and China are too big to be invaded/conquered by either Nation. You can bet on PLA all you like, but spare us your childish comments please.

Haha...i expect more than that...it's that the best you got.