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Moderate Muslims — it’s time to be outraged

unless we have muslims on board opposing these hardliners, outsiders will always be labelled "enemies of islam" and the facts will be twisted to be presented to get more radicals. I propose people like @Hyperion @Dillinger @VCheng and the likes to form a lobby of sorts here make the beginning to deplore and condemn any and all acts of violence/discrimination against non-muslims IN THE SAME TONE AND TENOR as the likes of @Zarvan and @kalu_miah make in incidents of violence and discrimination against muslims.

I already have a "lobby": it supports only the fair truth. :D

This means that I will not be able to prejudge anything since I do not have any preconceived notions or prejudices, only an utter commitment to fairness and truth, no matter what, and the ability to judge each issue on merit, and nothing but the merit.

Those who think they know who I am and give veiled and unveiled threats ("o come "visit" me) to censor my views or their expression, or those who indulge in insults and foul language despite wearing blue or red badges here, are mistaken that I can be intimidated by such childish acts.

Besides, what you are saying, I am already doing. What else can I do?
 
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First there is no.such thing as moderate or extreme or other type off Islam this term itself has fueled more anger and hatred and is offensive

I do not associate myself with the religious nut jobs trying to enforce their inhuman, barbaric, stone age agenda on people, curbing the modernity-modern thought-culture-science and technology, trying to put an end to freedom of speech and expression, killing/maiming people (mostly those who oppose them and on mere difference of opinion) and blowing themselves off everywhere, persecuting non-Muslims, trying to challenge the writ of the state, blaming all their mishaps and problems on West and going bonkers over the religion.

P.S I just wanted to explain my position in words you will easily understand, please do not associate myself with you, its extremely offensive and disgusting to me. You want to return to the stone-ages, by all means feel free, do not drag us "moderates" there too.
 
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I do not associate myself with the religious nut jobs trying to enforce their inhuman, barbaric, stone age agenda on people, curbing the modernity-modern thought-culture-science and technology, trying to put an end to freedom of speech and expression, killing/maiming people (mostly those who oppose them and on mere difference of opinion) and blowing themselves off everywhere, persecuting non-Muslims, trying to challenge the writ of the state, blaming all their mishaps and problems on West and going bonkers over the religion.

P.S I just wanted to explain my position in words you will easily understand, please do not associate myself with you, its extremely offensive and disgusting to me. You want to return to the stone-ages, by all means feel free, do not drag us "moderates" there too.

Unless the moderates speak up, as you have here, Sir, the religious neanderthals will win.
 
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I do not associate myself with the religious nut jobs trying to enforce their inhuman, barbaric, stone age agenda on people, curbing the modernity-modern thought-culture-science and technology, trying to put an end to freedom of speech and expression, killing/maiming people (mostly those who oppose them and on mere difference of opinion) and blowing themselves off everywhere, persecuting non-Muslims, trying to challenge the writ of the state, blaming all their mishaps and problems on West and going bonkers over the religion.

P.S I just wanted to explain my position in words you will easily understand, please do not associate myself with you, its extremely offensive and disgusting to me. You want to return to the stone-ages, by all means feel free, do not drag us "moderates" there too.

Unless the moderates speak up, as you have here, Sir, the religious neanderthals will win.

Not as simple. Those are the type of people likely to have guns. Difficult to debate with a bullet.
 
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I think the only way to stop extremists taking over an entire religion, is already in the very title of this thread:
-- for the moderates to be so outraged & become so extremist in their own views that they need to take the gun to silence the extremists.

Anything else on part of the "moderates" is not only hollow and ineffective, but it is actually harmful in that it only masks the problem until it takes menacing proportions.

That is, unless they themselves are in cahoots with the extremists -- working for the same ambition of global conquest!
 
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I do not associate myself with the religious nut jobs trying to enforce their inhuman, barbaric, stone age agenda on people, curbing the modernity-modern thought-culture-science and technology, trying to put an end to freedom of speech and expression, killing/maiming people (mostly those who oppose them and on mere difference of opinion) and blowing themselves off everywhere, persecuting non-Muslims, trying to challenge the writ of the state, blaming all their mishaps and problems on West and going bonkers over the religion.

P.S I just wanted to explain my position in words you will easily understand, please do not associate myself with you, its extremely offensive and disgusting to me. You want to return to the stone-ages, by all means feel free, do not drag us "moderates" there too.

this post deserves to be on a pedestal! thank you for showing what a "moderate" muslim is. a normal human being with no other dreams and aspirations than other "normal" "moderate" human beings.
 
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Mr first Islam is Islam there is no moderate Islam and Jihad is part off Islam and you get peace by submitting to will off GOD this term off moderate Islam has fueled more anger in Muslims in Islam peace is for those who don't attack Islam or Muslims those who do we would love to.have a war I never said destroy South American countries or New Zeland or many countries in Africa because they mostly don't mess with us

I will not submit to a god :-)

Thanks bro. It's called age and the wisdom it brings with it, I hope, inshallah.

wait, you changed ?

:unsure: were you an angry guy before? :D
 
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The Book you so callously mention here, is one of the most complete, balanced and humane document that was ever revealed to us. I'm a practicing Muslim, and no, I don't need any translation of the book, I can read and interpret The Quran in it's entirety, all on my own. The thing here is to understand it contextually, not to cherry pick the verses that suit our momentary interests.

Dude, before you ever come up with such a sweeping statement. Think before what you write. Actually think ten times and don't let emotions overpower your best judgement.
you are the one who is being emotional here sir. Can I just confess that I have never read the book myself but this is based on my observations about the arguments that people have in reference to the book, and its a personal opinion of mine.
Most of the time I have also observed, its moderates who cherry pick, moderates who either lie or totally deluded.
Then they come up against somebody who has read the book as it is, and do not want to modify the meaning to suit modern sensibilities.
We have seen such moderate vs fundamentalist fights here, and I can sense its fundamentalists who are on the side of truth. Which leads to moderates getting personal and abusive ( even accusing fundamentalists of being terrorist sympathizer)
 
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Can Islam undergo reformation, like the way Christianity in Europe underwent reformation a few centuries ago?
I don't think so..
 
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So, what is a Moderate Muslim ,if i may ask?
And also how do we classify someone as a Moderate Christian ,Jew, Hindu,Sikh or a Tao?
We know moderation is the key.Can we be moderately right or wrong about a concept?
But sure we can develop extremist or moderate views based upon it.A man can carry extremist or moderate view on many subjects and religion is just one of those.

Aren't these are the "false" interpretations ,that makes one in owning or believing in things that are not mentioned in any of the religion at the first place.Blindly believing on what others have to say or how others interpret something can be an easy shortcut.Why not use your own piece of equipment if it's working just fine?
We can easily scrap many of those misinterpretation by pondering over teaching of our religion.
Do we need education for that?
That is our duty if we are a Muslim.
اِقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذ۪ي خَلَقَۚ

And your knowledge should worth enough to give you a grasp over your "deen and dunya".
There are no shortcuts.Are you getting it now that in my country,simply why it's hard to build a society with a bit of humanity in it.You can't do justice with your abilities if you fail to have thorough understanding of the modern science and technology and are hesitant to develop a peaceful & progressive society based upon it.

Just by growing beards having a fancy cloak and keeping your trousers/shalwar inches above your ankle won't make you suitable for the pulpit of a mosque or a church.One can always replace that idiot if one sees that he's wasting the time of the masses. Otherwise it's very easy to criticize on internet and become a part of the crime you abhor ,in real.
 
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Moderate Muslims — it’s time to be outraged
by David Aaronovitch

Friday July 4, 2014
from The Times

Why is there no Islamic peace movement? Because followers are too caught up feeling sorry for themselves as victims

It is a hard enough thing to run away from home in Cardiff to become a warrior for the caliphate, it is quite another to do it from Melbourne. But in Australia too last week there were stories and photos of local Muslim boys who had somehow managed to travel half the circumference of the globe to take part in a conflict their surfing school-mates had probably never even heard of.

Reading about this in an Aussie paper in a coffee bar in Sydney I found myself wondering how this could have happened. Or, more precisely, why it doesn’t seem to happen for anyone who isn’t a Muslim. Coptic Christians from Ethiopia are not to be found trekking across the intervening desert to take up arms on behalf of their persecuted Egyptian brothers; 17-year-old Huddersfield Catholics and west London Greek Orthodox altarboys are not en route to Ukraine to take part in the struggle for Donetsk. If, God forbid, there were widespread violence in socialist Venezuela, I would not expect the Pilger battalion of British teen leftists to turn up, red-arm-banded, in Caracas. So why, Muslims might ask themselves, echoing Mario Balotelli, is it always us?

This is an awkward question both to pose and to answer, partly because there are so many people who are absolutely and easily convinced that they do know the reason. They assure me on Twitter most weeks that the problem is Islam as a faith. Uniquely among religions, they assert, Islam is literal not interpretative, and that means it is by nature aggressive, violent and fundamentalist.

I don’t believe this for a second. There is now and has always been dispute within Islam as to the meaning and application of texts. It is susceptible to reform and schism just as Christianity, Judaism and other religions and political credos have been. Furthermore, as a religion with 1.2 billion adherents, of whom well over 1.1 billion manage to make it through life without hefting an AK47, attending a training camp in Waziristan or watching a judicial amputation, the generalisation doesn’t tell you about how Islam is actually practised.

And yet the problem remains. In the 1950s and 1960s the insurgencies around the world were ideological or nationalistic. Whether it was by the Shining Path in Peru, the Maoists of Nepal or even the fascist bombers of Italian railway stations, people were being killed by rebels in the name of political ideas. But although killers such as Anders Breivik and Timothy McVeigh suggest the persistent potency of certain far-right ideologies, today’s victims of IEDs, car bombs and mass abductions are most likely to be killed — according to their killers — in the name of the Prophet.

There is no non-Muslim equivalent of what, until a few days ago was Isis but are now the forces of the self-appointed caliph Ibrahim. There isn’t a Christian Boko Haram. Pakistan is not convulsed by militant communists, but by its religious extremists in the local Taliban and other groups, who between them may have killed 50,000 people in the past ten years. There is no country that is not Muslim that attempts to enforce sanctions for apostasy or has the death penalty for blasphemy. Vaccinators are not being assassinated by Jews, nor voters having their fingers chopped off by Baptists.

Again, it’s obvious that most Muslims do none of these things. They want to eat good food, lead decent, peaceful lives and watch their children grow up. And, in fact, ordinary Muslims are by far the biggest casualties of the jihadis and the zealots of apostasy. Pakistani Shia are massacred by Sunni extremists; Sunni civilians are snatched by Iraqi Shia death squads; the Syrian civil war has seen as many as 170,000 deaths in three years. By contrast the past 25 years of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict accounts for just under 10,000.

What is therefore doubly curious about this is the lack of a sense of Muslim outrage about what some other Muslims are doing. Who, for example, protests about the death penalty in many parts of the United States? Well, people in the United States and other western countries do. Judicial execution has been abolished in almost all formerly Christian countries despite its explicit sanction in the Bible.

Who complains about creationism being taught in schools? Among others, many Christians do. Is any campaign against Israeli actions complete without a complement of not-in-my-name Jews? Hardly, and that’s a healthy thing. By far the most effective critics of an action or a policy are those on the inside.

Yet I must have missed the sense of Muslim outrage at, for example, the Sultan of Brunei’s adoption of the most medieval form of Sharia, or at the persecution of religious (including Muslim) minorities in ostensibly Muslim countries.

It isn’t that some Muslim organisations aren’t trying. The two most recent campaigning statements of the Muslim Council of Britain concern condemnation of jihadi recruitment for Isis and female genital mutilation. They deserve credit for that.

But it is obvious that this self-policing isn’t what floats the boat of Muslims politically. There’ll be the occasional good statement, but if, say, Israel bombs Gaza, then suddenly social media will fill up with Islamic outrage, careful commentators will become passionate, marchers will hit the streets. Why is there no Muslim Peace Movement campaigning for an end to violence in Muslim countries, where the victims are Muslims and the perpetrators are Muslims? Where it might make the most difference.

A couple of weeks ago listeners heard a depressing report from Bradford. Sima Kotecha, the BBC correspondent, was interviewing young Pakistani-British boys about Iraq. Would they go and fight for Isis or other groups? “I would go. They’re brothers,” said one. “You’re going to live as a Muslim, die as a Muslim, innit?” said another.

There is at work here what can only be called a victim mentality — paradoxical given the power and size of Islam — which casts Muslims as being eternally oppressed and eternal victims.

This week the supreme leader of Iran, arguably the most powerful Muslim religious leader in the world, tweeted his “analysis of recent events in the region”. Point 1 was: “Main enemy: security and intelligence services of the West.” Point 2 was their tactics: “Sowing sectarian conflicts”, launching proxy wars and “fabricating forged alternatives of Islam”. Neither he nor any other Muslim had any real responsibility for any of it.

A fantasy of victimhood is difficult enough when it enchants just a nation. When it enthrals a world religion it is terrifying.
Social sharing | The Times

@Oscar @VCheng @waz @Irfan Baloch @Jaanbaz @Pakistani Exile @Hiptullha @Counter-Errorist @Hyperion @qamar1990 @KingMamba @Emmie @Capt.Popeye
This is exactly what I am saying.
 
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The so called "moderate muslims" may be decent human beings, but actually they are bad muslims.
As per orthodox islam, the good muslims are members of taliban, ISIS, al quaeda etc..
Banned from thread for Islamophobia.
 
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As have I.

The relative silence of the Muslims on the atrocities & injustices committed by Muslims on non-Muslims/other Muslims, compared to the cacophony and chest beating over Gaza/Myanmar is both damning and telling to the rest of the world.
Sir

I beg to differ ..I lost the counts how many times I have said this.
the "silent/ non violent" majority doesnt make headline news.. they do condemn the atrocities of Muslim extremists but they dont carry the shock value so they dont make news.

there are always emotions there when the victim and the accused are both Muslims

it can be out right condemnation, disbelief, shock and rejection.
if you think the mainstream media is the authentic yardstick for gauging the sentiments of Muslims then you are missing out much
 
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can you explain...why there is no movement against islamic terrorism from the so called 'moderate' muslim?

what kind of movement? if you care to outline ? and in the same fashion tell me is there any such movement against Christian, Hindu, Jewish terrorism ? or as you paint it "islamic terrorism" by jews, hindus, christians ?


can you also explain...why there is so much hue and cry around isreal-palestine issue, while non against ISIS or sunni shia conflict?

can you explain why the US and many more including you supported ISIS in the first place?

I am speaking from what everyone has seen, @waz, show me one example of a Christian brit or a Hindu Indian who joins a crusade to free Iraqi or Pakistani or Nigerian Christian while I can show a few hundreds of Muslim brits who join jihad in Iraq, Syria or Pakistan.

They dont need to because their governments are part of such crusades in shape of different organisations whereas Muslim countries are just shitty in this regard they are also with the same crusaders hence frustrated individuals find such ways to take up arms
 
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