MMRCA project: Govt firm on HAL as lead integrator

[IND151]

The defense ministry has decided to remain firm on having Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) as the lead integrator for producing 108 medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) in the country, virtually turning down French firm Dassault Aviation’s plea to play a bigger role in the multi-billion dollar project.

The ministry’s stand in this regard has come after French firm Dassault, which has bagged the IAF deal for supplying 126 MMRCA, asked it to define the role of HAL in the project.

As per the tender, first 18 of the 126 aircraft are to be supplied by Rafale from its facilities and the rest 108 are to be license produced and integrated by the HAL at its facilities here.

If any company other than HAL is designated as the integrator, it would be deviation from the tender issued for the project and as per the defense procurement procedure, it will have to be approved by the defense acquisition council, defense ministry sources said.

In view of this, the ministry has decided that it will stick to the clauses of the tender issued in 2007, they said.

The ministry is expected to convey its decision on the issue to the company during the negotiations on the deal beginning next week.

The French company had told the ministry that if it is given the overall responsibility for the project, it should be given the freedom to decide on the proportion of work to be done by HAL and private companies in the programme

If the government had given a major role to the French firm in producing the aircraft in the country, it would have assigned a major share of work to an Indian defense company.

Soon after Dassault was declared as the lowest bidder for the MMRCA deal piping EAD’s Eurofighter, it signed a MoU with a Reliance Industries Ltd. company for working together in the security sector.

It is currently negotiating the deal with the defence ministry and the IAF.

MMRCA project: Govt firm on HAL as lead integrator | idrw.org

 

[Koovie]

Good, but lets hope that HAL will start building production facilities immediately after the contract is signed.

 

[trident2010]

Some news is good news !!

 

[jha]

This procurement will drain a lot of money from our pockets. Wonder if it is worth the hoopla being created around it. The MLU of these planes will cost more than a new plane.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The only senisble option on the table. Whilst other pvt players may have ambitious plans when it comes down to it HAL is the only player in India with the infrastructure, funds and expertise to build the Rafales on the scale and in the timeframe envisioned. The others like TATA,M&M and Ariance should be given certain sub-contracts though. The ideD of the MMRCA is not just about the plane but helping to build up the Indian aviation industery.



Not to mention any deviation away from this script would cause untold delays on the MMRCA contract's inking.

This procurement will drain a lot of money from our pockets. Wonder if it is worth the hoopla being created around it. The MLU of these planes will cost more than a new plane.

Please, by 2020 the Indian Defence budget will be in excess of $100BN USD/year.

 

[arp2041]

This procurement will drain a lot of money from our pockets. Wonder if it is worth the hoopla being created around it. The MLU of these planes will cost more than a new plane.

Indian Security is PRICELESS.

 

[jha]

Please, by 2020 the Indian Defence budget will be in excess of $100BN USD/year.

Not really...

And even it is $ 100 Bill., this plane will still be an over priced one imo and a $100 Bill. budget will not justify the procurement of over priced jet which brings little to table in form of ToT.
Most of the people here will disagree with me but i have always been in minority here.

 

[jha]

Indian Security is PRICELESS.

No doubt in that. National security is indeed priceless. I am just concerned that our priorities might be misplaced here.
I fully supported procurement ( renting ) of Akula Class submarines even though they cost a bomb to procure and operate because we could learn a lot from it and have got a really great deal in over all.

 

[sancho]

No doubt in that. National security is indeed priceless. I am just concerned that our priorities might be misplaced here.
I fully supported procurement ( renting ) of Akula Class submarines even though they cost a bomb to procure and operate because we could learn a lot from it and have got a really great deal in over all.

The procurement of the Rafales are actually much more important for us, than the Akula lease, since they will have to fight a capable opponent in high numbers, just like our industry could benefit a lot from this deal too. The Akula instead is mainly a procurement to train crews for Indian SSBNs and later SSNs, otherwise it will only be useful when the first carrier will be available as well, in escort roles, with nearly no importance for our industy.

 

[Armstrong]

The procurement of the Rafales are actually much more important for us, than the Akula lease, since they will have to fight a capable opponent in high numbers, just like our industry could benefit a lot from this deal too. The Akula instead is mainly a procurement to train crews for Indian SSBNs and later SSNs, otherwise it will only be useful when the first carrier will be available as well, in escort roles, with nearly no importance for our industy.

Yaraa just a by-the-way question : How much does a 'full TOT' allow the manufacturers to accomplish ? Which is to say how deep of an insight does it provide ? How much would they be in possession of the relevant 'skill-set' to design a product of their own which maybe comparable or approaching-in-performance to the one they were able to obtain the 'full' TOT for ?

For example could Pakistan design her own diesel electric submarine after the Agosta 90B TOT ? Could India upgrade the Tejas with technologies inspired or devolved from the Rafaels...perhaps even come up with a Multi-Role Platform that borrows from the Rafaels, the MKIs & the Tejas ?

How far does a 'full' TOT equip one to go further ?

 

[sancho]

Yaraa just a by-the-way question : How much does a 'full TOT' allow the manufacturers to accomplish ? Which is to say how deep of an insight does it provide ? How much would they be in possession of the relevant 'skill-set' to design a product of their own which maybe comparable or approaching-in-performance to the one they were able to obtain the 'full' TOT for ?

For example could Pakistan design her own diesel electric submarine after the Agosta 90B TOT ? Could India upgrade the Tejas with technologies inspired or devolved from the Rafaels...perhaps even come up with a Multi-Role Platform that borrows from the Rafaels, the MKIs & the Tejas ?

How far does a 'full' TOT equip one to go further ?

ToT is just one part of it and only useful if you get critical ToT, the French are ready to provide full ToT of the AESA radar, which will be produced in India. That alone will give us important knowledge in the radar field, the Samtel / Thales JVs might give us a joint developed IRST, not to mention that there is the Kaveri-Snecma co-development. All these are important fields where we lack behind so far, but where we can gain a lot from the French.
Personally I say that this comes 2 decades too late, but that's another point.

 

[janon]

ToT is just one part of it and only useful if you get critical ToT, the French are ready to provide full ToT of the AESA radar, which will be produced in India. That alone will give us important knowledge in the radar field, the Samtel / Thales JVs might give us a joint developed IRST, not to mention that there is the Kaveri-Snecma co-development. All these are important fields where we lack behind so far, but where we can gain a lot from the French.
Personally I say that this comes 2 decades too late, but that's another point.

Apart from radar and engine tech, would it also give us experience in precision manufacture, and the latest techniques of assembly lines and production? The IAF was unhappy with HAL for not producing the LCA to the required precision, and for some reason, HAL's production rate is also very low. Perhaps we could get experience in production engineering, more than airframe design.

 

[sancho]

Apart from radar and engine tech, would it also give us experience in precision manufacture, and the latest techniques of assembly lines and production? The IAF was unhappy with HAL for not producing the LCA to the required precision, and for some reason, HAL's production rate is also very low. Perhaps we could get experience in production engineering, more than airframe design.

Apart from the Ajay Shukla claims, I don't see a a production problem of LCA so far, since it is not in production at all. We only have prototypes yet and they are changing things with each new one, so as long as we don't see HAL starting the MK1 we can't really judge about their capabilities.
For Rafale they already are building new facilities, but of course handling a modern fighter with modern production ways will benefit HAL for the future too, just like they will benefit from FGFA development and production.

Btw, am I the only one that has problems with very slow loading rates of the site? It's only with PDF and started a week or so.

 

[IndoUS]

Apart from the Ajay Shukla claims, I don't see a a production problem of LCA so far, since it is not in production at all. We only have prototypes yet and they are changing things with each new one, so as long as we don't see HAL starting the MK1 we can't really judge about their capabilities.
For Rafale they already are building new facilities, but of course handling a modern fighter with modern production ways will benefit HAL for the future too, just like they will benefit from FGFA development and production.

Btw, am I the only one that has problems with very slow loading rates of the site? It's only with PDF and started a week or so.

Same here some loading problem on PDF, sometimes it is really slow, or it goes straight to page not found.

 

[jha]

The procurement of the Rafales are actually much more important for us, than the Akula lease, since they will have to fight a capable opponent in high numbers, just like our industry could benefit a lot from this deal too. The Akula instead is mainly a procurement to train crews for Indian SSBNs and later SSNs, otherwise it will only be useful when the first carrier will be available as well, in escort roles, with nearly no importance for our industy.

Difference of opinion here.

IAF needed Rafale not to fight a capable opponent but a fighter aircraft capable of going on multi-role missions. Su-30 with upgrades can easily fit the bill. There is no need to buy an aircraft which will eventually cost more than $150 Mill. per plane to procure and will cost even more to upgrade.

On the other hand there is no option other than Akula. Not to forget the immense help the whole package has provided for development of Arihanth class SSBN.. Without Akula submarine, it would have been impossible to train crews of IN to operate a nuclear sub.