Mitsubishi ATD-X ShinShin: To Fly This Year !

[Aepsilons]

That is why your purpose to develop 5th gen is a cock-measuring stick rather than really about strategic depth. Unlike us, we develop it as a target for US's dominance in Asia Pacific. We have a real purpose and depth. For you, you don't need to develop a 5th gen because you can afford to buy them from anyone in the world. We can't so we develop ourselves. That is real purpose, my Nihon Friend! LOL

Provided, Japan is in an enviable and advantageous position in having an integrated defense industry with that of the United States. Japan is actually going to take a global participatory role in the F-35 Global Supply Chain. The F-3 Program will be used to project Japanese Power in the East Asian Region as well as in the Pacific and Beyond. That is the real purpose , my Friend.

 

[Carlosa]

Not the same. Predictable.

All these countries that dared ventured into the so-called '5th gen' fighter category learned from US. They bypassed the F-117, which was essentially an operational experiment into the idea of low radar observability. With the B-2 and F-22, curvatures are the norm for any attempt, which will lend at least one familiar feature between designs. Another predictable feature is twin canted vertical stabs. Another is ogive-like shaping for the fuselage. And so on...

Plus the fact that the J-31 is based on stolen blueprints of the F-35 (the chinese hacked the info from a British company that makes subsystems for the F-35); Gee.... how unusual.

 

[Carlosa]

Buddy, don't tell me that China did not reverse-engineer the Russian Fregate 3D radar (btw, a reversed engineered form is now on the PLAN's Type 054As).

Come on, we know also about your affinity for Russian S-Band MR90s. Et al, et al.

What is it with this guy Hans that keeps making stupid statements in all threads pretending to imply that he has knowledge when actually in fact, he doesn't have a clue about what he is talking about?

 

[alaungphaya]

Is the F3 a STOL? What weapons suite will it carry?

 

[The Huskar]

Yes, it does, doesn't it? Originally, JASDF wanted to purchase F-22s to replace the JASDF's Fleet of some 213 units of F-15Js. When the United States Congress barred the sale, they forced us to pursue our own 5th Gen Program (regrettably, it was expected that the U.S would sell F-22s to Japan after various consultation with JSDF and USAF personnel, however, se la vie).

We want the F-22s , so we will design something as close to the F-22 as possible. And hope to exceed the Raptor's capabilities.

If you are going for stealth characteristics,why not something like YF-23.it is said to have less RCS compared to F-22 albeit less manuverability.
BTW best of luck for ATD-X.

 

[Echo_419]

Finally Japan is regaling it's lost strength
Now if you could just remove those stupid weapon export rules

 

[Echo_419]

I see no purpose for Japan to develop a 5th gen aircraft beside cock-measuring stick and harass the US for not selling them the F-22 to be honest.

Then you need to get some contact lenses

 

[SvenSvensonov]

I am not sure what kind of engine that Japan ATD-X is going to use...
Japan don`t have military jet engine and military radar
Japan may need to buy from USA..

Japan doesn't have military jet engines?!?!?

IHI XF5

General characteristics

• Type: Afterburning Turbofan
• Length: 3 m
• Diameter: 0.6 m
• Dry weight: 644 kg

Components

• Compressor: Axial, 3 stage fan, 6 compressor stage
• Combustors: Annular
• Turbine: 1 stage high pressure turbine, 1 stage low pressure turbine

Performance

• Maximum power output: 11,023 pounds (49kN/5,000 kg)
• Overall pressure ratio: 26:1
• Turbine inlet temperature: 1,600 °C
• Thrust-to-weight ratio: 8:1

Certainly not the best around - and a bit under-powered, but it will suffice. Also for comparison, the IHI XF5 is similar to the Snecma M88 which powers the Dassault Rafale.

Snecma M88 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

General characteristics

• Type: Twin-shaft, turbofan engine
• Length: 3538 mm (139.3 in)
• Diameter: 696 mm (27.5 in) max.
• Dry weight: 897 kg (1,977 lb)

Components

• Compressor: 3 stage low pressure, 6 stage high pressure
• Combustors: Annular
• Turbine: single stage high pressure, single stage low pressure

Performance

• Maximum thrust: 50 kN (11,250 lbf) dry, 75 kN (16,900 lbf) wet (afterburning)
• Overall pressure ratio: 24.5:1
• Bypass ratio: 0.3
• Air mass flow: 65 kg/s (143 lb/s)
• Turbine inlet temperature: 1,850 K (1,577 °C)
• Fuel consumption: 0.80 kg/daN·h (0.78 lbm/lbf·h) (dry), 1.75 kg/daN·h (1.72 lbm/lbf·hr) (wet/afterburning)
• Thrust-to-weight ratio: 5.7:1 (dry), 8.5:1 (wet/afterburning)

The XF5 will power this

As for Japan not having an AESA radar... These will disagree with you

J/APG-1

And they have them on ships too

 

[AgentOrange]

Then u are being totally dishonest here

He's the same guy who thinks a nations economy and its military strength are mutually exclusive of one another. He also claimed the Soviet Union's economy had no bearing on why it disintegrated. So I believe him when he claims he "honestly" doesn't understand why Japan would need to develop a next-gen fighter. If you get my drift.

 

[hans]

Wish your engineer good job and good luck!
China meet a lot of problems when developing these engine
These problem requires a lot of money and time to solve..
hope your engineer can solve them all!

Im sure our Engineers are capable of doing the job. I also wish the best for our Chinese counterparts.

Cheers !

 

[hans]

You are right
China copy and study a lot of Russia ,Europe and US military weapons..
But now China know full of these systems and can combine the best part together..
I think Japan has advantage in certain components, yet still a long way to combine them together..
What we see is still US based designed with Japan upgrade..
Like Japan F2 from US F16, Kongō & Atago warships from Arleigh Burke class, AAM missile from US AIM ..
Copy is not shameful, it is a necessary way..
But need to know the detail and make it your own..

Buddy, don't tell me that China did not reverse-engineer the Russian Fregate 3D radar (btw, a reversed engineered form is now on the PLAN's Type 054As).

Come on, we know also about your affinity for Russian S-Band MR90s. Et al, et al.

 

[hans]

it will be more like a concept design. combining what Japan current have..
If you want to make it a real fighter, there will be much more job to do..

the look of it doesn't really WOW me, but it's just still a prototype after all.

surprise Japan can do so much with such a little budget compared what the rest of the world has spent on a fifth gen fighter.

Japan should also focus on a counter stealth radar just in case shinshin doesn't pan out.

 

[hans]

Right..
Current ATD-X 50KN force engine can be only used for low end Gen3 Fighter..
High end Gen3 fight will go to 75KN force
And Gen4 stealth fighter like F22 and F35 will go up to 125 KN force class...
Military engine is really a tough work...

The engine is the biggest problem and won't be easy.

 

[Aepsilons]

You are right
China copy and study a lot of Russia ,Europe and US military weapons..
But now China know full of these systems and can combine the best part together..
I think Japan has advantage in certain components, yet still a long way to combine them together..
What we see is still US based designed with Japan upgrade..
Like Japan F2 from US F16, Kongō & Atago warships from Arleigh Burke class, AAM missile from US AIM ..
Copy is not shameful, it is a necessary way..
But need to know the detail and make it your own..

I agree with you, taking old technology and improving it is a human tradition since the age of the wheel. We all reverse engineer, improve, and design something greater. This has been mankind's tradition, and will always be. Cheers to that!

 

[hans]

OK I made a mistake..
I heard Japan jet engine and radar is modified from US based engine and radar..
So it should be considered as US tech knowledge...
Seems I am wrong..

Japan doesn't have military jet engines?!?!?

IHI XF5



General characteristics

• Type: Afterburning Turbofan
• Length: 3 m
• Diameter: 0.6 m
• Dry weight: 644 kg

Components

• Compressor: Axial, 3 stage fan, 6 compressor stage
• Combustors: Annular
• Turbine: 1 stage high pressure turbine, 1 stage low pressure turbine

Performance

• Maximum power output: 11,023 pounds (49kN/5,000 kg)
• Overall pressure ratio: 26:1
• Turbine inlet temperature: 1,600 °C
• Thrust-to-weight ratio: 8:1

Certainly not the best around - and a bit under-powered, but it will suffice. Also for comparison, the IHI XF5 is similar to the Snecma M88 which powers the Dassault Rafale.

Snecma M88 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

General characteristics

• Type: Twin-shaft, turbofan engine
• Length: 3538 mm (139.3 in)
• Diameter: 696 mm (27.5 in) max.
• Dry weight: 897 kg (1,977 lb)

Components

• Compressor: 3 stage low pressure, 6 stage high pressure
• Combustors: Annular
• Turbine: single stage high pressure, single stage low pressure

Performance

• Maximum thrust: 50 kN (11,250 lbf) dry, 75 kN (16,900 lbf) wet (afterburning)
• Overall pressure ratio: 24.5:1
• Bypass ratio: 0.3
• Air mass flow: 65 kg/s (143 lb/s)
• Turbine inlet temperature: 1,850 K (1,577 °C)
• Fuel consumption: 0.80 kg/daN·h (0.78 lbm/lbf·h) (dry), 1.75 kg/daN·h (1.72 lbm/lbf·hr) (wet/afterburning)
• Thrust-to-weight ratio: 5.7:1 (dry), 8.5:1 (wet/afterburning)

The XF5 will power this

As for Japan not having an AESA radar... These will disagree with you

J/APG-1


And they have them on ships too
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