Militants attack J&K Army camp, police station; kill seven

[chhota bheem]

Don't try to act like a ***** who claims of knowing nothing about sex.

You know well that nawaz was clueless about complete picture of war...the question is not about how 'government' works...

You seem to assume a lot what is that you want to say.

 

[forcetrip]

Man this is the difference i see between indian and pakistani PDF members... while indians generally gives condolence when something bad happens in pakistan,, the pakistani members are usually in a party mood... cant help if you dont agree with meh.. but fact is fact..... islam doesnt seem to practice what they preach

The problem here is that you are comparing the wrong demographic that comes from each countries website. You can easily compare data as to how Indians feel when things are bad in Pakistan on an "Indian" run forum. Here on a "Pakistani" forum only the inquisitive, moderately smart and non conformist indians join and try to see the other sides of the coin. I am sure you all have accounts in lots of other forums. You can collect data and see how ignorant "BOTH" sides of the coin are.

Also try to notice how Pakistan is dragged into this with no factual data within hours.

 

[Lil Mathew]

This attack is just a revenge for a Pakistani captain killed on LoC few days back....

Revenge = Taken.

Come again, p*ssy a$$ indians

Modi can't do sh!t...If anything, he'll be the first one to finally find some solution to Kashmir.

Very pathetic...You people are totally in a bad world created by some army generals and some ISI chiefs... Just think and wake up...
Just try to answer these questions yourself....

1. What is the aim of these types of attacks???
you know these types of attacks only worsen the peace... Only peoples of kashmir will suffer by these attacks... This will make no difference in Indian govts policy...

2. Is this a freedom struggle as you are educated by your army????
Think...Is this the nature of a freedom struggle... You can compare this with other freedom struggles and riolts...Arab spring, vietnamese war,Cuban revolution etc... You can get the answer... answer is no..na??? This is only a act of terrorism....

Then what is the real agenda behind this... Clearly to stop the peace talks between two countris....

3. What is the benefit by this for some army generals????

Simple...Study the corruption by your army.... Then you will get the picture how some generals exploiting the country in the name of patriotism....

Look at what a patriotic pakistani civil servant is saying.... You will get more if you want to know sincerely....

Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa

Dr. Siddiqa: I was a civil servant. During the course of my work I had to deal with numbers of military spending and doing that one slowly realized that a lot was hidden.

It is the search for numbers that took me in this direction. The other thing is that it is essential to understand the dynamics of the institution that virtually controls Pakistan 's past, present and future.

Question: Going back to the Pakistan army's business, what are your findings?

Dr. Siddiqa: Several. First, the military has become predatory engaging in political and economic predation. Second, political predation is not complete without economic predation. Third, military has mutated into a separate class that shares interests with other members of the ruling elite.

Finally, because the military protects its vested interests, it leads to alienation of the masses.

Question: When did all this start?

Dr. Siddiqa: It dates back to the early 1950s. The business ventures were started with the establishing of the first foundation called the Fauji Foundation in 1953. This was established with the war veteran's rehabilitation fund of Rs. 18 million.

Question: Why do you consider forming Fauji Foundation a predatory step by the army?

Dr. Siddiqa: Listen you have to understand the concept. A politically strong entity that engages in political predation needs to feel economically or financially autonomous. This completes the picture of predation. The generals thought that they wanted to establish independent means of providing for their welfare and not depending on the civilians like it happened in India . The financial autonomy gradually created the logic for greater interest in political control

Question: Give me one or two instances when the 1953 move swirled into predation.

Dr. Siddiqa: It started right then with Ayub Khan and his cabal getting agricultural land and establishing independent means for themselves.Look at Ayub Khan. He not only got several squares of agricultural land in Sindh, he also established his sons into business. Look at the entire lot of generals at the moment.

A Major General has a legal worth of about Rs. 300 million [Rs. 30 crores]. These are conservative estimates.

Question: Going back to Pakistan army's economic superpower... What percentage of the GDP and GNP is it?

Dr. Siddiqa: This is difficult to calculate but their own estimates are about 4 % of GDP. I would say that their share in private sector assets is about 7-10 percent of private sector assets. This is a large number for any single group

Question: Can you translate that into crores?

Dr. Siddiqa: 7-10 percent of private sector assets cannot be translated but I can give you another figure: They are worth about Rs. 200 billion. It is just the business. If you put in real estate then we are talking about a Rs 1 trillion plus economy.

Question: You mean Pakistan army's side economy?

Dr. Siddiqa: Yes. This includes real estate, businesses done by subsidiaries, organizations and individuals. You have to understand that this economy is predatory by nature because it does not accept any form of civilian control over it. It is independent in terms of planning, appropriation of funds, etc

Question: If Pakistan army's assets total Rs 1 trillion can they fund Pakistan 's annual budget wholly or partially if they have to?

Dr. Siddiqa: This would, converting these resources into liquid assets and then it would be possible to pay. A lot of these resources are state resources that could provide for military expenditure and more. It is difficult to say that this money would fund the entire budget. Of course, it can but over what period? These assets were acquired over time and their value should be added to the annual defence budget.

Question: What was the defence budget for the year 2001?

Dr. Siddiqa: 131 billion. If you add these numbers the budget would escalate to over Rs. 400 billion

Question: When you left in 2001 how many generals, etc were there who form the command structure of Pakistan forces?

Dr. Siddiqa: Brigadier and up would be a few hundred.

Question: So if we assume 100 then 100 times 300 million = 30 billion is the legal worth of army's command structure correct?

Dr. Siddiqa: It is more but don't get into these fancy numbers... Plus the higher you go the more pricy you become.

A full general is worth Rs 500 million [Rs. 50 crores] plus

Question: How much land does the forces own in each province?

The Glasshouse: Pakistan Army's Multimillionaires

Dr. Siddiqa: Difficult to bifurcate but to give you a taste - they own about 7-9 million acres in Punjab alone

Question: What percentage is it of whole of Punjab ?

Dr. Siddiqa: I am still trying to figure this out. It is not an issue of what percentage is this of Punjab but that a major portion of state land is appropriated by one group

Question: What about Sindh?

Dr. Siddiqa: My sense is that it is less in Sindh

Question: Why is that?

Dr. Siddiqa: Most of the land is around the 2 barrages constructed after independence.

Because they didn't make new barrages.

Question: What is their modus operandi in getting these lands allotment

Dr. Siddiqa:10 % of land, according to the 1912 Colonization of Land Act, is allotted to the military

Question: 10% everywhere?

Dr. Siddiqa: Yes it would be everywhere land is found. Colonization of land refers to each land reclaimed due to creation of water channels and other irrigation projects.

However, they tend to get more in Punjab

Question: Does India have this act too?

Dr. Siddiqa: No. They got rid of such acts when they did land reforms.

The Glasshouse: Pakistan Army's Multimillionaires

Remember India is a state moving towards capitalism. A capitalist state would not create means for institutionalizing feudalism

Question: Are you saying Pakistan army has institutionalized feudalism?

Dr. Siddiqa: I am saying that it is a feudal institution as well

Question: So in that case their interests converge with feudal system correct?

Dr. Siddiqa: Yes

Question: Do you think they resisted land reform along with the feudal?

Dr. Siddiqa: I wouldn't say that they resisted but they had sufficient stakes not to pursue a policy that had a negative impact on their benefits. For example, who buys the land the Faujis sell? The local feudal or the new rural capitalist class that is equally feudal in nature. Why should the officers then try to destroy the class that bails them out financially. After 1999, generals have started to keep their lands

Question: What happened after 1999

Dr. Siddiqa: Since the value of land has gone up, especially after 9/11, generals now keep lands and have turned into absentee land lords

Question: Why did the value of land in Pakistan go up after 9/11

Dr. Siddiqa: Because of the money that started to flow in from Pakistani expatriates plus other Muslim countries

Question: What is their modus operandi in getting these lands allotted to generals individually and to their housing societies collectively?

Dr. Siddiqa: The provincial governments allot the land to the Ministry of Defence who then gives the land to the three services for further dispersal. The land is also given to the Jawans but the quantity is lesser than what is given to the senior officers. Plus, the generals get greater facilities in making the land cultivable.

Question: All this is based on 1912 colonization of land act that India got rid of and Pakistan still has?

Dr. Siddiqa: Yes, but they have done alterations as well. For instance, the act does not say that land meant for operational purpose be appropriated for personal use. It is against the law

Question: Are you saying that land meant for operational purposes are or have been appropriated to the generals for personal use or to the housing societies?

Dr. Siddiqa: Of course. All land in the cities is military land turned into housing colonies

Question: What is the conclusion of your book?

Dr. Siddiqa: Simple: The political leadership in Pakistan has to negotiate the military's gradual withdrawal from the economy if they want democratic institutions to grow

Question: At what value does the army buy land?

Dr. Siddiqa: Between Rs. 30-60 per acre. In some cases they pay more. This refers to the private housing schemes

Question: You mean in Defence Society in Karachi , the army gets land from the provincial govt for 30 to 60 rupees an acre only?

Dr. Siddiqa: There are 2 methods for getting land. All the military land converted for personal use is given at the ridiculous price I quoted. Then there are other schemes where they pay a little more. For instance, the Cantonment Board distributed plots of 500 yards each by appropriating part of the parking lot of the Karachi stadium. Each plot was for about Rs 600,000

Question: What was the fair market value of each plot at that time?

Dr. Siddiqa: One and a half crore

Question: Who got these plots ?

Dr. Siddiqa: Generals. The bulk goes to generals. This was done by General Tauqeer Zia. As Chairman Cricket Control Board he authorized himself to return this land that once belonged to the Cantonment Board for further distribution

Question: Any more instances of such land grabbing?

Dr. Siddiqa: The entire Lahore Cantonment was turned into housing schemes. In fact, except for Defence phase I & II ( Lahore ), the rest of the land does not even belong to the military

Question: How many acres is Lahore Cantonment, if you know?

Dr. Siddiqa: About 8000 to 10,000.

Question: What is its fair market worth now

Dr. Siddiqa: Runs into billions. It should be around Rs. 700 billion

Question: What was the "grabbing price"

Dr. Siddiqa: As I said, Rs. 30-60. This is the rate that officers pay.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

welcome SSG is waiting for you on loc . i think in a covert operation you guys lost a head of solder which is still missing ?

Bhai jaan,SSG wohi hain na jinhonay 1965 mein Indian main ghus k surrender kia tha?

 

[ejaz007]

Very pathetic...You people are totally in a bad world created by some army generals and some ISI chiefs... Just think and wake up...
Just try to answer these questions yourself....

1. What is the aim of these types of attacks???
you know these types of attacks only worsen the peace... Only peoples of kashmir will suffer by these attacks... This will make no difference in Indian govts policy...

2. Is this a freedom struggle as you are educated by your army????
Think...Is this the nature of a freedom struggle... You can compare this with other freedom struggles and riolts...Arab spring, vietnamese war,Cuban revolution etc... You can get the answer... answer is no..na??? This is only a act of terrorism....

Then what is the real agenda behind this... Clearly to stop the peace talks between two countris....

3. What is the benefit by this for some army generals????

Simple...Study the corruption by your army.... Then you will get the picture how some generals exploiting the country in the name of patriotism....

Look at what a patriotic pakistani civil servant is saying.... You will get more if you want to know sincerely....

Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa

Dr. Siddiqa: I was a civil servant. During the course of my work I had to deal with numbers of military spending and doing that one slowly realized that a lot was hidden.

It is the search for numbers that took me in this direction. The other thing is that it is essential to understand the dynamics of the institution that virtually controls Pakistan 's past, present and future.

Question: Going back to the Pakistan army's business, what are your findings?

Dr. Siddiqa: Several. First, the military has become predatory engaging in political and economic predation. Second, political predation is not complete without economic predation. Third, military has mutated into a separate class that shares interests with other members of the ruling elite.

Finally, because the military protects its vested interests, it leads to alienation of the masses.

Question: When did all this start?

Dr. Siddiqa: It dates back to the early 1950s. The business ventures were started with the establishing of the first foundation called the Fauji Foundation in 1953. This was established with the war veteran's rehabilitation fund of Rs. 18 million.

Question: Why do you consider forming Fauji Foundation a predatory step by the army?

Dr. Siddiqa: Listen you have to understand the concept. A politically strong entity that engages in political predation needs to feel economically or financially autonomous. This completes the picture of predation. The generals thought that they wanted to establish independent means of providing for their welfare and not depending on the civilians like it happened in India . The financial autonomy gradually created the logic for greater interest in political control

Question: Give me one or two instances when the 1953 move swirled into predation.

Dr. Siddiqa: It started right then with Ayub Khan and his cabal getting agricultural land and establishing independent means for themselves.Look at Ayub Khan. He not only got several squares of agricultural land in Sindh, he also established his sons into business. Look at the entire lot of generals at the moment.

A Major General has a legal worth of about Rs. 300 million [Rs. 30 crores]. These are conservative estimates.

Question: Going back to Pakistan army's economic superpower... What percentage of the GDP and GNP is it?

Dr. Siddiqa: This is difficult to calculate but their own estimates are about 4 % of GDP. I would say that their share in private sector assets is about 7-10 percent of private sector assets. This is a large number for any single group

Question: Can you translate that into crores?

Dr. Siddiqa: 7-10 percent of private sector assets cannot be translated but I can give you another figure: They are worth about Rs. 200 billion. It is just the business. If you put in real estate then we are talking about a Rs 1 trillion plus economy.

Question: You mean Pakistan army's side economy?

Dr. Siddiqa: Yes. This includes real estate, businesses done by subsidiaries, organizations and individuals. You have to understand that this economy is predatory by nature because it does not accept any form of civilian control over it. It is independent in terms of planning, appropriation of funds, etc

Question: If Pakistan army's assets total Rs 1 trillion can they fund Pakistan 's annual budget wholly or partially if they have to?

Dr. Siddiqa: This would, converting these resources into liquid assets and then it would be possible to pay. A lot of these resources are state resources that could provide for military expenditure and more. It is difficult to say that this money would fund the entire budget. Of course, it can but over what period? These assets were acquired over time and their value should be added to the annual defence budget.

Question: What was the defence budget for the year 2001?

Dr. Siddiqa: 131 billion. If you add these numbers the budget would escalate to over Rs. 400 billion

Question: When you left in 2001 how many generals, etc were there who form the command structure of Pakistan forces?

Dr. Siddiqa: Brigadier and up would be a few hundred.

Question: So if we assume 100 then 100 times 300 million = 30 billion is the legal worth of army's command structure correct?

Dr. Siddiqa: It is more but don't get into these fancy numbers... Plus the higher you go the more pricy you become.

A full general is worth Rs 500 million [Rs. 50 crores] plus

Question: How much land does the forces own in each province?

The Glasshouse: Pakistan Army's Multimillionaires

Dr. Siddiqa: Difficult to bifurcate but to give you a taste - they own about 7-9 million acres in Punjab alone

Question: What percentage is it of whole of Punjab ?

Dr. Siddiqa: I am still trying to figure this out. It is not an issue of what percentage is this of Punjab but that a major portion of state land is appropriated by one group

Question: What about Sindh?

Dr. Siddiqa: My sense is that it is less in Sindh

Question: Why is that?

Dr. Siddiqa: Most of the land is around the 2 barrages constructed after independence.

Because they didn't make new barrages.

Question: What is their modus operandi in getting these lands allotment

Dr. Siddiqa:10 % of land, according to the 1912 Colonization of Land Act, is allotted to the military

Question: 10% everywhere?

Dr. Siddiqa: Yes it would be everywhere land is found. Colonization of land refers to each land reclaimed due to creation of water channels and other irrigation projects.

However, they tend to get more in Punjab

Question: Does India have this act too?

Dr. Siddiqa: No. They got rid of such acts when they did land reforms.

The Glasshouse: Pakistan Army's Multimillionaires

Remember India is a state moving towards capitalism. A capitalist state would not create means for institutionalizing feudalism

Question: Are you saying Pakistan army has institutionalized feudalism?

Dr. Siddiqa: I am saying that it is a feudal institution as well

Question: So in that case their interests converge with feudal system correct?

Dr. Siddiqa: Yes

Question: Do you think they resisted land reform along with the feudal?

Dr. Siddiqa: I wouldn't say that they resisted but they had sufficient stakes not to pursue a policy that had a negative impact on their benefits. For example, who buys the land the Faujis sell? The local feudal or the new rural capitalist class that is equally feudal in nature. Why should the officers then try to destroy the class that bails them out financially. After 1999, generals have started to keep their lands

Question: What happened after 1999

Dr. Siddiqa: Since the value of land has gone up, especially after 9/11, generals now keep lands and have turned into absentee land lords

Question: Why did the value of land in Pakistan go up after 9/11

Dr. Siddiqa: Because of the money that started to flow in from Pakistani expatriates plus other Muslim countries

Question: What is their modus operandi in getting these lands allotted to generals individually and to their housing societies collectively?

Dr. Siddiqa: The provincial governments allot the land to the Ministry of Defence who then gives the land to the three services for further dispersal. The land is also given to the Jawans but the quantity is lesser than what is given to the senior officers. Plus, the generals get greater facilities in making the land cultivable.

Question: All this is based on 1912 colonization of land act that India got rid of and Pakistan still has?

Dr. Siddiqa: Yes, but they have done alterations as well. For instance, the act does not say that land meant for operational purpose be appropriated for personal use. It is against the law

Question: Are you saying that land meant for operational purposes are or have been appropriated to the generals for personal use or to the housing societies?

Dr. Siddiqa: Of course. All land in the cities is military land turned into housing colonies

Question: What is the conclusion of your book?

Dr. Siddiqa: Simple: The political leadership in Pakistan has to negotiate the military's gradual withdrawal from the economy if they want democratic institutions to grow

Question: At what value does the army buy land?

Dr. Siddiqa: Between Rs. 30-60 per acre. In some cases they pay more. This refers to the private housing schemes

Question: You mean in Defence Society in Karachi , the army gets land from the provincial govt for 30 to 60 rupees an acre only?

Dr. Siddiqa: There are 2 methods for getting land. All the military land converted for personal use is given at the ridiculous price I quoted. Then there are other schemes where they pay a little more. For instance, the Cantonment Board distributed plots of 500 yards each by appropriating part of the parking lot of the Karachi stadium. Each plot was for about Rs 600,000

Question: What was the fair market value of each plot at that time?

Dr. Siddiqa: One and a half crore

Question: Who got these plots ?

Dr. Siddiqa: Generals. The bulk goes to generals. This was done by General Tauqeer Zia. As Chairman Cricket Control Board he authorized himself to return this land that once belonged to the Cantonment Board for further distribution

Question: Any more instances of such land grabbing?

Dr. Siddiqa: The entire Lahore Cantonment was turned into housing schemes. In fact, except for Defence phase I & II ( Lahore ), the rest of the land does not even belong to the military

Question: How many acres is Lahore Cantonment, if you know?

Dr. Siddiqa: About 8000 to 10,000.

Question: What is its fair market worth now

Dr. Siddiqa: Runs into billions. It should be around Rs. 700 billion

Question: What was the "grabbing price"

Dr. Siddiqa: As I said, Rs. 30-60. This is the rate that officers pay.

Quote a personality that is not controversial. Dr. Siddiqa is a controversial figure.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

 

[RazPaK]

Tanks for a couple of terrorists. Bwahahaha.


Shows how pathetic Indian forces are.

 

[Jai_Hind]

TOLL NOW 12

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Tanks for a couple of terrorists. Bwahahaha.


Shows how pathetic Indian forces are.

F 16s for terrorists...show how superior Pakistani Army is..

 

[sms]

Sequence of events ...

11:15 am: Jammu and Kashmir CM Omar Abdullah says terror strike aims at derailing proposed talks with Pakistan.

11:05 am: Army deploys choppers to hunt down terrorists hiding in army camp.

11:00 am: There should be no talks with Pakistan, demands BJP leader Yashwant Sinha.

10:40 am: They may have taken another vehicle from there and reached the army camp in Samba. The encounter is going on. Additional forces of CRPF, army and police are there: Rajesh Kumar, IGP, Jammu region.

10:37 am: The militants took a truck and injured the truck driver on the spot. Then they headed towards the national highway along with the truck driver: Rajesh Kumar.

10:36 am: Giving details of the attacks, IGP, Jammu region, Rajesh Kumar said in the first strike in Kathua, three-four militants came in an autorickshaw and killed the guard at the police station.

10:35 am: Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde says information is being collected on the terror attack in Jammu.

10:20 am: An army officer and a soldier were killed in a terror attack in Jammu and Kashmir: Police sources.

10:05 am: Both terror and peace talks cannot happen at the same time: BJP leader Prakash Javadekar.

10:01 am: Dialogue is the only way to tackle such issues, says Digvijaya Singh.

10:00 am: Both Pakistan and India are victims of terrorism, says Congress leader Digvijaya Singh.

 

[INDIC]

Tanks for a couple of terrorists. Bwahahaha.


Shows how pathetic Indian forces are.

Pakistan uses Airforce and tanks against TTP but failing to tame them.

 

[RazPaK]

F 16s for terrorists...show how superior Pakistani Army is..

Yeah but aren't there like 2 militants?

Tanks? LOL

 

[Trisonics]

This attack is just a revenge for a Pakistani captain killed on LoC few days back....

Revenge = Taken.

Come again, p*ssy a$$ indians

Modi can't do sh!t...If anything, he'll be the first one to finally find some solution to Kashmir.

Your army can't do shi!t! if they could, they would face Indian Army face to face and not hide behind islamic terrorism. Being Pakistani these attacks may bring joy to you but what you are supporting is terrorism. Hope somebody takes note of these terror sympathizers on this platform.

 

[chhota bheem]

Tanks for a couple of terrorists. Bwahahaha.


Shows how pathetic Indian forces are.

You can say what every want thats not stopping the IA to blow the terrorists @rse.they enter a army camp and what do you expect to find a taxi cab.

 

[janon]

hahahha...yeah, I forgot...You know, my indian history professor told me that it is recorded that Ghaznavi broke the most holiest idol of Somnath into pieces...too it back to Ghazna..and built the stairs of Ghazna's Grand Mosque with those pieces of hindu god

Ghaznavi hum se b bara troll tha in kalay hindus k liye

Religion of peace at work.

And then they say that islam did not spread through violence.

Anyway, guess what, your ancestors were raped and pillaged a lot more than ours. Lahore was conquered so many times in history by those very people.

Just because you adopted the religion of the conquerors does not mean you became conquerors.

It is comical to see the victims take pride in the atrocities of their tormentors.