Mig-21 crash: No replacement for the ‘Flying coffin’ in near future

[Maarkhoor]

I just fail to understand why cant HAL produce spares for MIG 21,
in 90's HAL build the whole MIG 21's in their facility but now they are not providing necessary spares for the aging fleet that should be there until LCA arrives.

Looks like instead of retiring they'd want the MIG's to just keep on crashing until none is left.

BECAUSE of corruption in Indian armed forces they buy spares for Migs for kick backs no one questions them caz every body knows Migs are quite old need spares frequently.

 

[banvanaxl]

pilot survived and this is great news.
a human is irreplaceable.


whereas in Pakistan the PAF crashes involve certain deaths of the pilots and PAF gives away a ready made statement that the pilot had the chance to bail out but he chose to keep flying the aircraft away from populated area until it was too late to bail out and died with thee plane.
@MastanKhan might know about this press release which I always find hard to believe, ok maybe it will be true 2 out of 10 times but not always. I am not suggesting that every PAF crash that involves the death of the pilots is suspicious but given the almost next to no record of successful bailing out one is forced to dismiss the PAF erady made statement that has been used for decades

so wtf am I getting at? maybe some or all of the following

some cover up of events leading to crash
lax, insufficient checks re maintenance
obnoxious leadership that refuses to accept the issue with old platforms
pilot error, lack of training or over confidence by putting the (mostly older) jets in a manoeuvres that cant be pulled off safely.

Sir, You imagine we don't "cover up" on this side of the fence? We crash Sukhois/MIGs/Jags etc with impunity and then blame overstressed airframes and overworked pilots. I can bet my arse the RAF/PLAAF/USAF etc. train as hard as us and have a way better safety record overall.
I dont believe the pilots are incompetent. We have some of the best sims and training hardware available.
Its the ground staff and the maintainence that we scrimp upon. Ever heard that story coming out?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sir, You imagine we don't "cover up" on this side of the fence? We crash Sukhois/MIGs/Jags etc with impunity and then blame overstressed airframes and overworked pilots. I can bet my arse the RAF/PLAAF/USAF etc. train as hard as us and have a way better safety record overall.
I dont believe the pilots are incompetent. We have some of the best sims and training hardware available.
Its the ground staff and the maintainence that we scrimp upon. Ever heard that story coming out?

yaar I know what you are talking about. I am just glad that the pilot will be able to join his family and friends after the initial treatment and debriefing. I just let out the steam against PAF.. I understand that Indian personnale face similar challenges everyday.

 

[halupridol]

Not 4++ but At-least capable substitute with Multi-role Capabilities.IAF Fetish over foreign Maal will never allow this to happen

how much more relaxations does IAF needs to provide,,,even without foc,40 mk1 have been ordered,,,,,out of which only 2 delivered.
40 will take 5+ yrs. ,,even tht is very optimistic.
but thn again,,,this is all irrelevent right,,coz mk2 will be a beast.
wait,,what was tht naya laddoo,,yes mk1p ,,it will be a grt asset,,must order it.

 

[Max Pain]

BECAUSE of corruption in Indian armed forces they buy spares for Migs for kick backs no one questions them caz every body knows Migs are quite old need spares frequently.

If they bought the spares the things would hve been different.
It seems they are just neglecting mig 21s

 

[MastanKhan]

pilot survived and this is great news.
a human is irreplaceable.


whereas in Pakistan the PAF crashes involve certain deaths of the pilots and PAF gives away a ready made statement that the pilot had the chance to bail out but he chose to keep flying the aircraft away from populated area until it was too late to bail out and died with thee plane.
@MastanKhan might know about this press release which I always find hard to believe, ok maybe it will be true 2 out of 10 times but not always. I am not suggesting that every PAF crash that involves the death of the pilots is suspicious but given the almost next to no record of successful bailing out one is forced to dismiss the PAF erady made statement that has been used for decades

so wtf am I getting at? maybe some or all of the following

some cover up of events leading to crash
lax, insufficient checks re maintenance
obnoxious leadership that refuses to accept the issue with old platforms
pilot error, lack of training or over confidence by putting the (mostly older) jets in a manoeuvres that cant be pulled off safely.

Hi,

This Mig 21 crash----people don't get mad at me---it seems like it is staged----.

As for the PAF---there are some serious issues---when very senior officers are dying in aircraft crashes----there is a problem----. But the problem with the air force is that it is used to brooming its dirt under the rug---.

It has never punished its senior officers for crimes of negligence against the state---no good is expected from them.

 

[nik22]

Hi,

This Mig 21 crash----people don't get mad at me---it seems like it is staged----.

As for the PAF---there are some serious issues---when very senior officers are dying in aircraft crashes----there is a problem----. But the problem with the air force is that it is used to brooming its dirt under the rug---.

It has never punished its senior officers for crimes of negligence against the state---no good is expected from them.

Why do you think it is staged?

BTW, Many Mig-21 crashes, including recent ones have happened due to Pilot errors.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Why do you think it is staged?

BTW, Many Mig-21 crashes, including recent ones have happened due to Pilot errors.

I agree, @MastanKhan bhai say bit more if you will .. re staged act.
maybe just few lines to put us on track.

I don't mean to put words in your mouth but just want to theorize from your angle.
making case for MMRCA?

for: so that the Rafale saga is resolved quickly and a positive decision is made to buy them
against: dont be absurd, why IAF must crash a jet to make a point? the case is already made for Mig-21 replacement

edited later:
case for LCA?

 

[Spectre]

I agree, @MastanKhan bhai say bit more if you will .. re staged act.
maybe just few lines to put us on track.

I don't mean to put words in your mouth but just want to theorize from your angle.
making case for MMRCA?

for: so that the Rafale saga is resolved quickly and a positive decision is made to buy them
against: dont be absurd, why IAF must crash a jet to make a point? the case is already made for Mig-21 replacement

Could depend on the flying hours. Dunno if it is propaganda or not but IAF is supposed to conduct a hell lot more sorties than other forces in S. Asia on russian aircrafts which are not exactly reliable over longer flying hours.

I have no expertise or deep understanding in such matters so take my opinions as an mature hour effort.

Regards

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The IAF resembles the Luftwaffe of 1944 more than anything else now. With many Reichsmarshal Herman Gorings at the top.

 

[Spectre]

The IAF resembles the Luftwaffe of 1944 more than anything else now. With many Reichsmarshal Herman Gorings at the top.

lol, that good/bad

 

[nik22]

I agree, @MastanKhan
for: so that the Rafale saga is resolved quickly and a positive decision is made to buy them
against: dont be absurd, why IAF must crash a jet to make a point? the case is already made for Mig-21 replacement

We ofcourse wait for MK to provide his analysis.

But I think Mig 21 crash does not help case of Rafale. IMO, It actually make the case for LCA.
For Rafale, vulnerability of Su 30 fleet needs to be highlighted. Like it was done some time back. So Govt does not think about ordering additional Su and think about an alternative.

IAF Chiefs have been already making case by Publicly giving statements about Rafale. I wonder why Govt did not take any action? Would you believe during negotiation , end user saying I do not have any other option. Damn ridiculous to say atleast.

 

[Whazzup]

against: dont be absurd, why IAF must crash a jet to make a point? the case is already made for Mig-21 replacement

A better against statement is "Oh please its not that easy to get away with such things after a crash proper enquiry will be there from pilot to ground maintenance crew every1 will be under the radar . And even the IAF will be asked if these systems were so prone to crashes why not upgrade them better?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

We ofcourse wait for MK to provide his analysis.

But I think Mig 21 crash does not help case of Rafale. IMO, It actually make the case for LCA..

thanks for correction , LCA just slipped out of the mind, and again my point is still countered anyway

 

[Max Pain]

The IAF resembles the Luftwaffe of 1944 more than anything else now. With many Reichsmarshal Herman Gorings at the top.

thats more of a flawed comparison,
Goering had multiple kills in both world wars,
he saw his luftwaffe Transform into Jet age from those propeller driven planes.
though it was late but they were the pioneers.