Maulanas to Modi: we have not come from Arabia.Our ancestors were also Indians

[definitelynotIndian]

I am from one side a firangi mahali from chowk in Lucknow. We are extremely tolerant people. Don't mark our tolerance as subservience. If the Indian state tries to vanquish us we will do everything to break India into a thousand pieces. Muslims left there specially in the past have been vocal supporters of Pakistan. The changes are more recent. Ask my grand father who was a staunch support of the AIML, which later became PML.

Bhai please not the thousand pieces

 

[New World]

He is saying that because lots of Pakistanis think they are Arabs and from other middle east countries. Like the one "Think Tank" claiming in this thread right now

forget about western side, now look at the north-eastern side of India most of the people where are chinese descendant..
what about them.

 

[ashok mourya]

forget about western side, now look at the north-eastern side of India most of the people where are chinese descendant..
what about them.

No one chinese descedant in NE ,they are of either burmese or Tibbetan race.

 

[micky]

 

[micky]

the above picture shows the attitude of this imam

 

[Thorough Pro]

true representation of hindu mentality

Bakre ki maa kab tak khair manati.

 

[jaatram]

true representation of hindu mentality

I thought true representation of hindu mentality was Muh mein ram ram bagal mein churi

 

[illusion8]

For debate sake I will share my views on this a little further. 3 factors played a major role in destroying the loyalty of muslims left there towards Pakistan.

1) Muslims left there were directed to an alternate sphere of influence. They were imposed with an alien Hindustani culture and ideals. They did not grow up watching PTV patriotic dramas. This made the younger generation forget what our country Pakistan (as it was made for muslims left there too) meant. I mean clearly I ask the muslims left there what happens when India purges you as in Babri and Gujarat riots. The only place we will be able to escape to is Pakistan and thats exactly what our family did. My point is that having another sphere of influence and being subjected to Indian propaganda made muslims keen vassals repeating whatever the Hindutvas told them. I would ask Indians to ask any muslim what they think of Modi... he is a killer of thousands. But then there is this new phenomenon of slave muslims shaking hands with the same guy. Recently these same handshakers with Hindutvas have become representatives of muslims left there rather than Jinnah or Liaquat Ali Khan.

2) We migrants or mahajirs (I hate that term but due to lack of another am using this) began treating our muslims relatives left there as different. We always say for our travelling khalas or mamoos "you are going to India". we never say you are going to Lucknow-which is supposed to be part of Pakistan. In my family there has been an argument over Lucknow and Karachi even though the Muslim League was born in Lucknow. Simple thing is bhai, whether Lucknow is good or Karachi both are supposed to be treated as a part of Pakistan.

We should have treated muslims left there as a part and parcel of Pakistan. Many could be an asset in times of war with India. But our foreign policy has been one huge mess.

3) The break up of Pakistan and the establishment of a sovereign Bengal state. It proved that pakistan was breakable and also that muslims cannot live peacefully in one country, even when divided from India. I sympathize with this sentiment but at the same time know that Pakistan is the only hope for us-as it was for my parents and it received support from my grandparents

You guys are weird...but I suppose it comes with the territory when not many countries particularly want you around - on the lines of the eternal boat people. Even the one which was supposedly made in the name of and for you.

OT: and your aspersions - don't you think the maulanas are actually requesting the exact opposite of what you seem to be assuming? aren't they requesting for themselves to be considered Indians and of Indian ancestry rather than all the outsiders you mentioned in the other post? I don't think you as a pakistani would know any better than those maulanas by a way long shot. What comes out of the woodwork is that you guys are confused by your real ancestry and to which group you actually belong while most indian mulsims know to which ancestry they belong.

 

[Imran Khan]

these SOB mullahs they want secularism in india and same sect hate secularism in pakistan . because they are minority in india and majority in pakistan



saving the secularism is duty of every muslim - deoband india

pakistan is fort of islam and seculars must be destroyed . deoband pakistan

 

[illusion8]

these SOB mullahs they want secularism in india and same sect hate secularism in pakistan . because they are minority in india and majority in pakistan



saving the secularism is duty of every muslim - deoband india

pakistan is fort of islam and seculars must be destroyed . deoband pakistan

Zainiyat ka kasur hai!! the end goal is deobandi population should grow by hook or by crook.

 

[SQ8]

You guys are weird...but I suppose it comes with the territory when not many countries particularly want you around - on the lines of the eternal boat people. Even the one which was supposedly made in the name of and for you.

OT: and your aspersions - don't you think the maulanas are actually requesting the exact opposite of what you seem to be assuming? aren't they requesting for themselves to be considered Indians and of Indian ancestry rather than all the outsiders you mentioned in the other post? I don't think you as a pakistani would know any better than those maulanas by a way long shot. What comes out of the woodwork is that you guys are confused by your real ancestry and to which group you actually belong while most indian mulsims know to which ancestry they belong.

There is a misunderstanding of both. Indian Muslims(or for that matter all Muslims east of the Indus have closer ties to India of old.. as in they are Indian with very little(if none) genetic differences to you. However, they do have a distinct cultural identity that is NOT Arab and NOT that of the Indian Hindus. It embodied a mixture of both Arab practices mixed with Indian practices.. and interspersed with religious boundaries.

Which is why I always refer to them as Hindu-Muslims. The term Hindu having more than just a religious angle to it.

Now, coming to modern day India and Pakistan these ideals changed. Specifically starting with Ayub Khan the slow falsicificaiton of history and the "Arabization" of this culture in Pakistan which reached its peak with Zia ul Haq and still continues to this day.

 

[Imran Khan]

Zainiyat ka kasur hai!! the end goal is deobandi population should grow by hook or by crook.

its not zahinyat but its abut to save their back man. whenever they will gain power they will do same with india too . keep them under the shoe always or else be ready to be next pakistan . even if they gain power 50-50

 

[illusion8]

There is a misunderstanding of both. Indian Muslims(or for that matter all Muslims east of the Indus have closer ties to India of old.. as in they are Indian with very little(if none) genetic differences to you. However, they do have a distinct cultural identity that is NOT Arab and NOT that of the Indian Hindus. It embodied a mixture of both Arab practices mixed with Indian practices.. and interspersed with religious boundaries.

Which is why I always refer to them as Hindu-Muslims. The term Hindu having more than just a religious angle to it.

Now, coming to modern day India and Pakistan these ideals changed. Specifically starting with Ayub Khan the slow falsicificaiton of history and the "Arabization" of this culture in Pakistan which reached its peak with Zia ul Haq and still continues to this day.

That's fine and would have been fine if he had been from an ancestry that were from the other side of the Indus. But what he points out that he is Mujahir and is assuming that he is speaking on the behalf of Indian Muslims, - the one's from this side of the Indus and those you call Hindu Muslims, which is what exactly Subramanium swamy says.

The maulana's have made an effort to address and clear this cultural confusion which needs to be appreciated.

 

[SQ8]

That's fine and would have been fine if he had been from an ancestry that were from the other side of the Indus. But what he points out that he is Mujahir and is assuming that he is speaking on the behalf of Indian Muslims, - the one's from this side of the Indus and those you call Hindu Muslims, which is what exactly Subramanium swamy says.

The maulana's have made an effort to address and clear this cultural confusion which needs to be appreciated.

I doubt their sincerity in the matter and that of Swamy too. There is deception in their message as well. There is no "Bharatipan/im/um/ing/ung" in anything the Indian Muslims do or have. There is no need to scream out Vande Mataram more than the Indian Hindu to prove that.

However, there is a strong cultural connection that has less to do with believing in the Mahabharta or its ideals and more to do with belonging to the land. For e.g. , there is the usage of a lighter shade of saffron by religious preachers some 800 years ago to be able to associate with the "psychological" behaviour of the people and make them more comfortable with them. This contrasted with the more direct approach of the conquerors and is the reason why all the saints in India are still revered by people of all religions be it Muslims or Hindus even though many of these people were technically aliens.

These people preached Islam in the same language and in the same vein that the locals were used to and helped them understand it. At no point did it take anything away from the religion nor did it take anything negative from the local culture into it. Which is how the identity developed; an amalgamation of the softer culture found in India(vis a vis Arabs and Persians) with the religious/cultural ideals that these people brought with them from their journeys across Arabia, Persia and Central Asia.

The result was a distinct yet similar identity. Culturally similar but religiously distinct and non-intertwined.

 

[Spring Onion]

So now majority of Indians gonna consider them Indians? or they still have to chant ram ram and stop cow sacrifice to prove themselves as Indians? A large number of Indians say that Muslims in India should sacrifice their faith to avail the title of Indian/s