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Make in India: Rafale deal may take off as a joint venture between French and Indian firm

Abingdonboy

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NEW DELHI: The government could ask France's Dassault Aviation to rope in an Indian partner to jointly manufacture the next batch of its Rafale fighters in the country as a condition for landing the remainder of the contract, a move it hopes will fulfil the 'Make in India' dimension that could not be met in its off-the-shelf purchase of 36 planes last week.
Sources familiar with the matter said there were initial discussions in the government on whether to press the French firm to sign up an Indian partner and form a joint venture company in which the local firm could own up to 51 per cent stake and this firm could execute the contract to supply the remaining planes.

However, the official announcement last week made no mention about what happens to the remaining planes, prompting speculation in some quarters whether the government could look at fresh competitive bidding. But sources said the thinking in South Block was that it did not make sense to buy planes from a new vendor as that would saddle the Air Force with a 'mix and match fleet' and having to operate multiple platforms, which was cumbersome and operationally inefficient. Besides a fresh competitive bidding scenario would take years, severely delaying the Indian Air Force's plans to raise its flying strength up to 42 fighter squadrons.
This will effectively rule out the possibility of fresh competitive bidding for the remaining contract, which was also indicated by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Monday when he said a government-to-government route was better to acquire strategic defence platforms rather than competitive, global bidding.

NUMBER COULD BE REVISITED

Sources said that while the original requirement of 126 fighters for the air force stands, this number could be revisited in the coming days after a reassessment. A higher number of planes could encourage the French side, which could otherwise have reservations on ceding the controlling stake in the Indian joint venture, to set up a production base for the jets. Such an approach could counter criticism that the new Rafale deal does not give much to India in terms of technology transfer and production capabilities. Going about the remainder of the contract though the joint venture route could give the Indian private sector a chance to partake of the government's defence spending and develop manufacturing expertise in an area that has largely been the preserve of staterun firms.


Make in India: Rafale deal may take off as a joint venture between French and Indian firm - The Economic Times


@Bang Galore @MilSpec @Gabriel92 @Guynextdoor2 @SR-91 @Koovie




@sancho this seems to fit with the new GoI's modus operandi- scrapping existing troubled RFP routes and launching new procurements aimed at giving them to private players (P-75I and LUH/RSH deals for example).

Anyway, let's see what happens, it looks like India is still pushing for the ToT and a lot more Rafales but now it will simply be pursued in a govt-govt dialogue and considering Dassualt had been pretty happy to join hands with Reliance (and very reluctant to do so with HAL) this move could actually see a lot of traction and likely success.
 
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IAF would definitely need more planes. They would have chosen 0 rafales rather than having a mere 36 of them. So, expect the govt to find a way to buy atleast another 100 of them.
 
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It is rather confusing...so many conflicting reports on Rafale.

36 planes are what India is getting....that is what I am sure. DM interview was very confusing regarding the remaining number.
 
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makes sense. 36 bought. By the time the delivery completes for these number of birds, theres ample time to set up.a new assembly line in India & start producing rest of the birds.
I bet my two cents. :coffee:
 
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That would be a very good compromise IMO, get the first 36 Rafales off the shelf and build the rest in India in a joint venture.
 
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IAF would definitely need more planes. They would have chosen 0 rafales rather than having a mere 36 of them. So, expect the govt to find a way to buy atleast another 100 of them.

I am not sure regarding that number. I think India would not go beyond another odd 30 taking the total to 60 to 65. I guess this was the number suggested by some before the 36 was announced
 
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Whats the count now 20,000 Raphaels ordered with full TOT and HAL making a further 30,000 Raphaels in India

Added bonus of the french president giving every indian male a reach around
 
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Whats the count now 20,000 Raphaels ordered with full TOT and HAL making a further 30,000 Raphaels in India

Added bonus of the french president giving every indian male a reach around
Ok I'll laugh for your effort on Sarcasm "HEHEHEHEHEH HAHAHAHA" Happy ?? Now please bug off let the discussion be peaceful and good :)
 
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This will effectively rule out the possibility of fresh competitive bidding for the remaining contract, which was also indicated by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Monday when he said a government-to-government route was better to acquire strategic defence platforms rather than competitive, global bidding.
Wise thing to do, given that technical part of the deal (evaluation) has already been taken care, now its only a question of how the procurement has to fit within government's policies and budget allocation.
Also by looks of the development taking place, it seems Dassault would be far happy to form a joint venture with an Indian firm (it could even be with HAL), that will work as a special purpose vehicle for the project.
And as far as the numbers go, i guess now government will have flexibility to decide what to order based on ground situation of other projects going on.
 
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Whats the count now 20,000 Raphaels ordered with full TOT and HAL making a further 30,000 Raphaels in India

Added bonus of the french president giving every indian male a reach around
Serious question - how many people do you think find your pathetic attempt at humour funny? How many faces did it bring a smile to, how many chuckles did it garner?

Sarcasm and comedy are entertaining, when done by people capable of it. Otherwise, the result is what you see here - everybody shaking their heads in pity at the sad existence of a wannabe comedian with attention problems.
 
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They would be obsolete by the time everything is set up

Rafales will be serving in IAF for the next 25 years minimum. So chance of obsolescence is far.

To avoid confusion, I am sticking my guns to Doordarshan and Pressi Information Bureau.

I suggest you guys do the same. Most private channels and print tend to create stories out of thin air to increase their TRP as is widel evident these days.

Hence the PM's instruction to all fellow senior ministers to give interviews ONLY to DD or PTI. That's it. Other news channels will have to source official comments from these people.
 
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Rafales will be serving in IAF for the next 25 years minimum. So chance of obsolescence is far.
It is precisely because they are expected to serve for decades, that the issue of obsolescence is pertinent. Mirages are expected to serve 40-45 years, and so are the Rafales. By that time, they would be obsolete. So should we buy an expensive fighter that would be obsolete half way into its life, or a much cheaper aircraft that would also be obsolete by that time, but wont cost an arm and a leg? Or should we get a slightly more expensive aircraft that will not be obsolescent in that time period?

BTW, I suggest a moratorium on new threads about Rafale, until actual, credible info arrives.
 
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@Ind4Ever knows the same thing i had said a day back. The economic times article along with PSengupta seems to echo that. Teh vibe of all this was from the Hollande interview post visiting Rafale facility published yesterday by french papers. He terms that india "trusts" us. and said production in india is under discussion.
I also said it would be assmbled via kits and conrtium is rumoured to have Reliance but today the other name Mahindra is also touted. PSK says production rate is 14 per year and the declaration under Make in India would happen soon

@sancho @Abingdonboy Perhaps the offset clause as i said before would be 30% not 50% thereby foregoing critical TOT which will reduce the price component as well as initial investment needed to produce hi tech parts. Ultimately the defence ecosystem would grow much lesser than 50% offset clause but its a more rational approach then to be in a "vortex"
 
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