Lockheed Martin offers F-16 Block 70, for India, from India, exported to the world

[foxbat]

Please Please get this deal have the f-16 production facility in India. Then, at last we can get its spares in black market from India

With built in kill switches

 

[zebra7]

so you think either SAAB or Thales gonna give you so called "full TOT" on there radars or weapon systems ? good luck then ... i rest my case

When did I say that ? And what is the Need of getting the TOT for those radar, when the real meaning of TOT is the Technology Transfer to manufacture the product, not the technology knowledge to build one for India. So with Rafale, whether off the shelf or Make in India the Radar should/would be bought off the shelf from the respective oem aka Thales. And all the gates for the SAAB for Gripen is closed in India.

p.S India is already working of UTTAM AESA Radar.

 

[Taygibay]

There are plans by LM to make available F16 for next 20 years with F16 Vs meant for US Air Force

Plans by LM, most likely; plans by USAF certainly not though.

with your logic what's the point of building LCA?? is it just to gain knowledge in building airplanes?? you can get that same knowledge with the F-16 block 70 and it's a better overall plane.

No they can't. Getting the Tejas to work is a better solution.
Just cuz' humans in general learn more from their personal
experience that from hearing about someone else's experience.

By finishing the LCA, India not only learns how to build but
also how to make a fighter. MII etc.

a single LCA can carry only 4 tonne of weapons fuel and pods/sensor on its 7+1 pylons ... ie... its a light multirole fighter

while a F16V Blk70/72 even with full internal and CFT fuel still can carry 8.5 tonne of weapons

And Rafale 14.5 tons additional mass or 9.8 tons under wings and body with internal fuel.
But that's with 5,920 lb /2,685.2 kg internal fuel in the F-16 and 4.7 t (10,300 lbs) for Raffy.
Just as Gripen is a big Tejas in those metrics, Rafale is a big F-16 of sorts.
So in the interest of IAF and maintenance costs, it's either one in each case. I don't care
which here but to make sense, don't get both LCA and Gripen nor both Rafale and F-16.

and since even if LCA is made in full swing and rafales(36+90) also come still we would be 150 planes short and thats where F16s fit till AMCA , PAKFA/FHFA and hopefully F35 come

Then just buy more of the 3 options? Keep your stable clean and choose!
Say 50 more MKI, 50 more Rafale 50 more LCA and voilà!

Have a good day all, Tay.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Grippen is not what we need but F16 can do any job any mission and is more leathel in every aspect and time tested platform which is in MRCA catagorry but can carry as much weapons load to required targets and back like any other heavy fighter and can do all kinds of missions then be it SEAD/DEAD/CAS/COIN/arial interception ect ect as USA over a period of time has made it the original "OMNI ROLE" fighter owt there at reasonable price which in its role is second to none

No doubts upon the capability Sir , it bring the reason why I would choose it any day over a Gripen.

Its about " cost " , " needs " and what US can deliver

 

[zebra7]

Grippen is not what we need but F16 can do any job any mission and is more leathel in every aspect and time tested platform which is in MRCA catagorry but can carry as much weapons load to required targets and back like any other heavy fighter and can do all kinds of missions then be it SEAD/DEAD/CAS/COIN/arial interception ect ect as USA over a period of time has made it the original "OMNI ROLE" fighter owt there at reasonable price which in its role is second to none

F-16 block 70 with CFT would be only a bomb truck with very less maneuravality. Why would we need that when we had MKI and now cheaper kit is available to convert the dump bomb into LGB. In short MKI/MIG 29 which IAF was using as the Airsuperiority fighter Plane, would have the limited Ground attack capability. With Super Sukhoi upgrades those capabilities would be increased manifold, with the BARS AESA upgrade, to map the SAR Ground imaging in its interleaved operation.

 

[GURU DUTT]

When did I say that ? And what is the Need of getting the TOT for those radar, when the real meaning of TOT is the Technology Transfer to manufacture the product, not the technology knowledge to build one for India. So with Rafale, whether off the shelf or Make in India the Radar should/would be bought off the shelf from the respective oem aka Thales. And all the gates for the SAAB for Gripen is closed in India.

p.S India is already working of UTTAM AESA Radar.

no one will give you there latest tech secrets just because you are buying in good quantity for them and as or uttam AESA well it still is 5 years away from being oprational till then what specially when china has at least 3 fighters in testing with AESA based radar and combined avionics suits

 

[zebra7]

Then just buy more of the 3 options? Keep your stable clean and choose!
Say 50 more MKI, 50 more Rafale 50 more LCA and voilà!

LOL Sir, you hit the Nail.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Plans by LM, most likely; plans by USAF certainly not though.



No they can't. Getting the Tejas to work is a better solution.
Just cuz' humans in general learn more from their personal
experience that from hearing about someone else's experience.

By finishing the LCA, India not only learns how to build but
also how to make a fighter. MII etc.



And Rafale 14.5 tons additional mass or 9.8 tons under wings and body with internal fuel.
But that's with 5,920 lb /2,685.2 kg internal fuel in the F-16 and 4.7 t (10,300 lbs) for Raffy.
Just as Gripen is a big Tejas in those metrics, Rafale is a big F-16 of sorts.
So in the interest of IAF and maintenance costs, it's either one in each case. I don't care
which here but to make sense, don't get both LCA and Gripen nor both Rafale and F-16.



Then just buy more of the 3 options? Keep your stable clean and choose!
Say 50 more MKI, 50 more Rafale 50 more LCA and voilà!

Have a good day all, Tay.

rafale and F16V are comming but grippens are not keep watching as things unfold ... cheers mate

 

[zebra7]

no one will give you there latest tech secrets just because you are buying in good quantity for them and as or uttam AESA well it still is 5 years away from being oprational till then what specially when china has at least 3 fighters in testing with AESA based radar and combined avionics suits

When you are saying no one is giving us the AESA tech. then why to worry. P.S What we need is to test the modes and the algorithm and validate them to distinguish the Radar from the Clutter Image. And this is slow process and the learning process, and we have the advantage of having ISrael at the back right now.


One more LOLZ you would find funny because most of the T/R modules of different OEM of different countries might be from the same supplier. E.G the Russian AESA and the European may be supplied by the same Canadian OEM supplier

About China -- China don't have any indegenous AESA radar on any plane on its nose. And the one that Chinese brags of their one in J-10 is Zhuk rp-35 which India could also buy for their MIG-29/MIG-29k

 

[GURU DUTT]

F-16 block 70 with CFT would be only a bomb truck with very less maneuravality. Why would we need that when we had MKI and now cheaper kit is available to convert the dump bomb into LGB. In short MKI/MIG 29 which IAF was using as the Airsuperiority fighter Plane, would have the limited Ground attack capability. With Super Sukhoi upgrades those capabilities would be increased manifold, with the BARS AESA upgrade, to map the SAR Ground imaging in its interleaved operation.

super sukhoi upgrade rumor is running for last 5 years but whats the current status plus the fact russians after watching M2K upgrade programme want close to 50-60 millon $$s per pop and the ammound for R&D to be paid by india but it will happen but take its own sweet time till then what ?

as for F16V it can do job of jaguar a Mig29 and MKi in a single sortie but still costs almost half the ammount required by rafale and has the best BVR and HOBS capablity in the world today second only to F22-F35

When you are saying no one is giving us the AESA tech. then why to worry. P.S What we need is to test the modes and the algorithm and validate them to distinguish the Radar from the Clutter Image. And this is slow process and the learning process, and we have the advantage of having ISrael at the back right now.


One more LOLZ you would find funny because most of the T/R modules of different OEM of different countries might be from the same supplier. E.G the Russian AESA and the European may be supplied by the same Canadian OEM supplier

About China -- China don't have any indegenous AESA radar on any plane on its nose. And the one that Chinese brags of their one in J-10 is Zhuk rp-35 which India could also buy for their MIG-29/MIG-29k

take it in writting no one has anything close to AESA tech what USA has heck what they are offering to india for sale is more leathel than what french or russians or swedish have with there own fighters

 

[zebra7]

take it in writting no one has anything close to AESA tech what USA has heck what they are offering to india for sale is more leathel than what french or russians or swedish have with there own fighters

True, but take me in Writting U.S is not gonna give those tech. to any ones, take a look at their allies like U.K, which have to send its Brimstone to U.S.A for integration. And the ones which U.S will give to India, will comes from Hidden clauses, and boundation like OEM representative visit and inspection at any hour in 24 hour a day and 365 days in a year in any IAF Base.

super sukhoi upgrade rumor is running for last 5 years but whats the current status plus the fact russians after watching M2K upgrade programme want close to 50-60 millon $$s per pop and the ammound for R&D to be paid by india but it will happen but take its own sweet time till then what ?

It was rumour spread by the Media, who was speculating the Super Sukhoi upgrades starting time. Here is the Timeline 2018-19

Regarding M2K upgrade, why it was so costly, because India/IAF goes for the deeper upgrade, including Engine and the elements of Rafale inside M2K, which will allow the M2K to be able to give its service till 2035.

as for F16V it can do job of jaguar a Mig29 and MKi in a single sortie but still costs almost half the ammount required by rafale and has the best BVR and HOBS capablity in the world today second only to F22-F35

Jack of all traders and Master of None.

When you talk about the F-16 superiority, you forgot the F-15 backing the same from behind, so give the credit, where it is due.

F-16V doing the job of Jaguar in a single sortie -- Can F-16V can fly at 100 mt at high speed above ground level from extensive distance. I give you a hint max it can sustain for 15 minute at match 1 to burn its most of its fuel.

F-16V doing the job of MIG-29 -- Ask them to be airborne with full load under 200 mt, and increase the height of 200 feet in 10 second with over the head roll.

F-16V doing the job of MKI -- Ask them to carry Brahmos-1 and fly from eastern border to eastern border.

 

[GURU DUTT]

True, but take me in Writting U.S is not gonna give those tech. to any ones, take a look at their allies like U.K, which have to send its Brimstone to U.S.A for integration. And the ones which U.S will give to India, will comes from Hidden clauses, and boundation like OEM representative visit and inspection at any hour in 24 hour a day and 365 days in a year in any IAF Base.



It was rumour spread by the Media, who was speculating the Super Sukhoi upgrades starting time. Here is the Timeline 2018-19

Regarding M2K upgrade, why it was so costly, because India/IAF goes for the deeper upgrade, including Engine and the elements of Rafale inside M2K, which will allow the M2K to be able to give its service till 2035.




Jack of all traders and Master of None.

When you talk about the F-16 superiority, you forgot the F-15 backing the same from behind, so give the credit, where it is due.

F-16V doing the job of Jaguar in a single sortie -- Can F-16V can fly at 100 mt at high speed above ground level from extensive distance. I give you a hint max it can sustain for 15 minute at match 1 to burn its most of its fuel.

F-16V doing the job of MIG-29 -- Ask them to be airborne with full load under 200 mt, and increase the height of 200 feet in 10 second with over the head roll.

F-16V doing the job of MKI -- Ask them to carry Brahmos-1 and fly from eastern border to eastern border.

had we been honest from day one in owr approach regarding high tech industries we would have never required russia, sweden or french or americans but thats history

now we have two nuclear powers waiting to attack us with best tech they could gather from any source by any means what should we do now specially when we dint do owr job on time for last full decade if not more ?



now about the second part
deep or shallow upgrade we paid the price for not going for full TOT french were offering regarding complete tranfer of production line way back in 2004 cause UPA wanted to make money on new platform rest keep speculating



now about the third part

no dought F15 gave backing to F16 to be what it is today in terms of its leathel reputaion but thats only one part

and you dont need to fighter to be at that 100mt level for more than 3-5 minutes to do the required job /whole mission and distance to be covered is 100-200Km of which 80% will always be in 2-3Km not 100Mt cause due to tech level you can do the same job through SBDs, LGBs , PGMs,SOMs and F16V has the most precise and leathel bunch of the same you are not going to use cannon or dive bombing for those jobs like in WW2 even you need to be at least 500mt altitude to get those results with your air to ground munations and missiles

and you dont need to go 200mt for air interception al the way you can do the the same low level jobs much much higher besides you dont have to carry full load in each sorties as fro bharmos well F-16 has at least 4 hard points under belly to 1500Kg plus each

so in short an F16 can carry 2WVR (wingtip rails) and 4BVRs on outer and middle under wing rails while two paylons under wings can be utilsed for two ARMs while one under belly for pod and the other two under belly for PGMs or LGBs that too in a single sortie and even then F-16V can have a combat radius of 400 to 600 Km in 2-3Km altitude or 6-8 Km altitude which is more than enof for western theater specially when your enemies air doctroine is based on the three genrations old type of the same platform

 

[zebra7]

had we been honest from day one in owr approach regarding high tech industries we would have never required russia, sweden or french or americans but thats history

We had the good oppurtunity with the Marut -- Which was way advanced than the Time. The best one, in the world, and we miss the opurtunity to achieve several decades before, what we achieved today.

now we have two nuclear powers waiting to attack us with best tech they could gather from any source by any means what should we do now specially when we dint do owr job on time for last full decade if not more ?

The biggest threat is the Internal one, because the external one on the west, have just 18, and as far as Nuclear is concerned, here is the practical/real figures of the weapon India --10, Pakistan 3-4. Unofficially, in Pakistan keep on discussing 100, 200, 300 figures.

now about the second part
deep or shallow upgrade we paid the price for not going for full TOT french were offering regarding complete tranfer of production line way back in 2004 cause UPA wanted to make money on new platform rest keep speculating

You are talking about way long history. Actually the original plan was 250 Mirage 2000H with 50 off the shelf and rest build by HAL, but due to economical crunch, that plan was shelved to 50 off the shelf.

and you dont need to fighter to be at that 100mt level for more than 3-5 minutes to do the required job /whole mission and distance to be covered is 100-200Km of which 80% will always be in 2-3Km not 100Mt cause due to tech level you can do the same job through SBDs, LGBs , PGMs,SOMs and F16V has the most precise and leathel bunch of the same you are not going to use cannon or dive bombing for those jobs like in WW2 even you need to be at least 500mt altitude to get those results with your air to ground munations and missiles

That Low level flight is necessary to avoid the enemy Ground Radar, for the DPSU -- Deep Strike tactical strike. For that IAF needs the Rafale with twin engine, high survivability, Omnirole, Sensor fusion, long range fighter plane. And comparing F-16V with Rafale is rubbish, because everything is not Radar, Google MDPU which is inside the Rafale, and check out how it is almost a 5th Gen. Fighter plane.

For MIG-29, it means its an Air Superiority fighter Plane, with highter thrust, high acceleration, and meant for Air Defence role.

and you dont need to go 200mt for air interception al the way you can do the the same low level jobs much much higher besides you dont have to carry full load in each sorties as fro bharmos well F-16 has at least 4 hard points under belly to 1500Kg plus each

 

[帅的一匹]

When you are saying no one is giving us the AESA tech. then why to worry. P.S What we need is to test the modes and the algorithm and validate them to distinguish the Radar from the Clutter Image. And this is slow process and the learning process, and we have the advantage of having ISrael at the back right now.


One more LOLZ you would find funny because most of the T/R modules of different OEM of different countries might be from the same supplier. E.G the Russian AESA and the European may be supplied by the same Canadian OEM supplier

About China -- China don't have any indegenous AESA radar on any plane on its nose. And the one that Chinese brags of their one in J-10 is Zhuk rp-35 which India could also buy for their MIG-29/MIG-29k

J20 has AESA, and it's indegenous. AESA is not some Alien tech bro, why you so admire it?

 

[GURU DUTT]

We had the good oppurtunity with the Marut -- Which was way advanced than the Time. The best one, in the world, and we miss the opurtunity to achieve several decades before, what we achieved today.



The biggest threat is the Internal one, because the external one on the west, have just 18, and as far as Nuclear is concerned, here is the practical/real figures of the weapon India --10, Pakistan 3-4. Unofficially, in Pakistan keep on discussing 100, 200, 300 figures.



You are talking about way long history. Actually the original plan was 250 Mirage 2000H with 50 off the shelf and rest build by HAL, but due to economical crunch, that plan was shelved to 50 off the shelf.



That Low level flight is necessary to avoid the enemy Ground Radar, for the DPSU -- Deep Strike tactical strike. For that IAF needs the Rafale with twin engine, high survivability, Omnirole, Sensor fusion, long range fighter plane. And comparing F-16V with Rafale is rubbish, because everything is not Radar, Google MDPU which is inside the Rafale, and check out how it is almost a 5th Gen. Fighter plane.

For MIG-29, it means its an Air Superiority fighter Plane, with highter thrust, high acceleration, and meant for Air Defence role.

no one is going to stop attacking us if we dont have required stuff to make them think otherwise thats how things are and will always be

now as for AESA radar well even if you are 50mt in current age you cant hide that much only defnce you have is the more leathel capbility than the enemy your facing

yes radars are not everything but then there are other aspects also and F16V comes fully loaded with em all more than any one else and it also has the best most leathel and smart weapons pacage in todays world like JDAAM , HARM, AIM9X or AIM120D or many kinds of PGMs , SOMs , SDBs & LGBs which make F-16V most leathel MRCA out there

and sure america will try to have levrage over us with them but they are not stupid to delliberatelly irritate a good coustmor which can give them buisness for many decades to come

... good night